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Thinking Hitachi 42pd3000??

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by allygash, Jul 30, 2003.

  1. allygash

    allygash
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    Hi guys,

    expat living in singapore, I can get hold of a Hitachi 42pd3000 plasma for 2700 sterling equiv, with speakers/stand/tuner etc. I nearly bgt the Pany 42wd till i saw the Hitachi. The pioneer 433hde looked great on DVD but crap on cable(analogue)TV here.

    Q1. Is the lack of DVI port gonna make a big diff 4 future proofing, dont see any dvi dvd players on the horizon here?

    Q2. The kids/wife watch alot of normal cable tv here in Sing, which is all analogue cable(digital cable tv next year), is this gonna look crap on the Hitachi? It looked pretty bad on the pioneer 433hde, waiting to view on hitachi...?

    Q3. Should I wait till new models come out for DVI etc or just keep my 38" sony crt for a while longer. Must admit on DVD source Hitachi looked the best out of Pany/pioneer/jvc etc..

    Thx for advice guys.

    Mike.

    PS- bout to move house so if gonna buy Plasma need to make decision soon.
     
  2. trooper1212

    trooper1212
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    The hitachi is regarded as being excellent for DVD but not as good as the pioneer for digital tv (sky), I don't know about analogue sources.

    Having said that, the quality between the Pioneer, Panny and Hitachi is comparable, and it's down to a matter of personal preference. If you weren't happy with the performance of the Pioneer, I'd be suprised if you thought the Hitachi was significantly better.
     
  3. tbrar

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    allygash

    Ex-pat in Singapore eh? So was I a few years ago, I lived in Holland Village !!!. :smashin:

    Thats interesting, I have just ordered a Momitsu player (in signature) thats from Taiwan. Its has DVI output and on board scling/deinterlacing.

    Get yourself down The Orchard Rd !!!!!! (with some credit cards). I forget where the electrical shops were, but I am sure there was a place / plaza where you could go check all these things out.

    Theres alot to the choice you have got, search on this forum and you can get technical comparisons between plasma's youre looking at.


    Tony
     
  4. Joel

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    I wouldn't wait for a new signal format if I were you; the DVI or the HDMI, whichever wins the race, will not be on the market yet in quite a few years. And you don't want to miss out on the great experience of watching flicks on the Hitachi, do you?

    I am really pleased with mine, but as you mention, its greatest (no HUGE thing though) shortcoming is the PQ on analog broadcasts, as on most plasma screens. I can definitely live with it, but I will upgrade to digital soon.

    Joel
     
  5. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    I saw the new Sony and the Hitachi today.Both were brilliant from a DVD test disc.The Hitachi was ok with the small amount of Freeview/Analogue I saw on it,but DVD knocked it for 6.

    Is it true they both use a Fuji screen?

    I was going to mention the Momitsu as well.

    The Hitachi PD3000 is not compatible with HDTV,according to Home Cinema Choice,only the PMA400 is.

    I thought the Hitachi had DVI in on the Panel.
     
  6. MAW

    MAW
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    All screens are brilliant with the shop's own demo discs, take your own, and insist. One which is brilliant with DVD should show all there is with sky, don't expect wonders with the footy, the PQ is just not there. The only difference with the 3000 and the 400 is the media box and connections, HDTV just requires better connections than the 3000 posesses. Don't get hung up on DVI, it may not win the war, especially as it's fraught with problems on the ALIS panel on which the 3000 is based. The reason it looks bad with analogue TV is simply that the PQ is not there, and perhaps due to software scaling. The 1024x1024 panel was in fact developed for a now defunct japanese HDTV format, and is 'virtual', the panel is true XGA, with rectangular pixels to get the shape. If the price is right, it's a b***** great flat screen TV, wife and child friendly, but don't expect it to integrate into a AV system, it's just a TV
     
  7. JH4

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    Er.. not quite correct about the 3000 being the same as the 400-"apart from the media box and connections" in fact it's quite a bit different - check the specs and you will see...
    Regards
     
  8. Wayne Moule

    Wayne Moule
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    MAW

    So can the 3000 do HDTV then and what did you mean about it not intergrating into an AV system?

    You're right about demo discs,I was aware of this.He did offer that I take a disc in and I have got a DVD recording of the proms which I could try for comparison.

    JH4

    In what way is it quite a bit different and is there really a massive difference between the two?
     
  9. allygash

    allygash
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    Thx for the feedback guys. I was under the impression the 3000 could do HDTV no problem, I saw it demo'd here on HD-vhs looked fantastic?

    Why does it not intregrate well into an AV system, I dont understand that comment?

    Also I noticed from reading the various posts here that my pioneer 655a progressive dvd could be wasted on this plasma cause of the way the interlaced alias screen handles a progressive source i.e. no difference between progressive & normal picture feed, anyone?

    Looks like i'm just gonna lift an Hitachi, time to **** or get off the pot, boring my wife senseless over the decision....

    Mike.

    Tbrar: Live just off Orchard road, like living in never never land here....

    :blush:
     
  10. MAW

    MAW
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    The integration is a remote control issue, all the 'media box' plasmas are equally at fault here. They are eztremely hard to 'all in one' remote control, even with the expensive remotes like the pronto, too many button presses to change AV inputs. Not an issue if you are using only the onboard sound, or have no ambition to have a single remote instead of the 5 you will have if you have an amp, a dvd, a plama, a vcr and cable. It drove my wife bonkers!

    Difference in spec between models is almost entirely down to the media box, which is one of the best I've seen. Still makes me very grumpy though, but I do admit they make life easier for many.
     
  11. tbrar

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    Good old Orchard Road, Ahhhh........ Nostalgia !. The thing is, you may not think so, but youll miss it when (if) you come back home !

    I owned a Hitachi 42-PD3000 prior to my Pioneer. Its probably worth explaining how the panel handles a PS source:-

    As you know the ALIS panel is an interlaced display.

    Consider what happens when you feed the panel an interlaced signal.

    1.The interlaced signal is firstly converted to a progressive signal.
    2.This progressive signal is then scaled to fit the resolution of the screen.
    3.This newly scaled signal is then converted to interlaced in order to be displayed on the screen - due to the screen being an interlaced screen.

    This is exactly what happens to all interlaced sugnals put into the display.

    Fed a progressive signal, the process by-passes step one from above - this is already completed in the DVD player. The remainding two steps still have to occur. That exactly how any progressive signal is dealt with by the display.

    It follows then that the only improvments to picture will be made in the way step 1 is handled by either the DVD player or the Display, and which does it better.

    As stated I previously owned the Hitachi 42PD3000 and used with my Arcam 88+, feeding the display both progressive and interlaced signals.

    In all honesty the difference was completely minimal, if at all. On some scenes in some DVD's the PS picture looked slightly sharper, this was few and far between. Far to few for my liking.

    Hope this helps
     
  12. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Mike,

    While I am at it I might aswell put some other points that you may want to consider :-

    Interlaced The panel is an interlaced display. The way it works though is different to traditional CRT's. CRT's display interlaced by scanning each line at a time. The way ALIS works is to display all the odd line in one go, then all the even lines in one go. This is substantially better than CRT - though still interlaced.

    Resolution - The number of pixels on the display is 1024 x 1024. However, the way the ALIS panel works (displays all 512 odd lines, then all 512 even lines) the maximum resolution at a given instant (ie every 50th second in PAL) is 1024 x 512.

    DVI - The 42PD3000 has a DVI* input into the panel from the media box, however it is a proprietary Hitachi input, not really much use.

    New Models = The new range are out at the end of the year, if that makes any difference as technology is always changing - there will always be something round the corner that will be better. I think the trick is to buy something with as much in built flexibility as possible, to allow for easy upgradability as and when.

    *With respect to DVI/HDMI, there are issues with DVI, hence the newer HDMI. But, the HDMI format includes provision of DVI as part of it for backwards compatability.

    I would seriously consider the lack of DVI/HDMI as an issue, £2.7k is a significant amount of money to invest in part of your set up. An all digital signal is inevitable & imminent (allready available), not years away???. Pioneer are releasing their mainstream DVI/HDMI DVD players later this year.

    Good luck with the decision.

    After youve made your mind up, go have a cool one in Brannigans ! :smashin:


    Tony
     
  13. trooper1212

    trooper1212
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    MAW - I don't see where you're coming from on the integration with an av system? I have my 3000 as a display only with a separate amp. Along with the dvd player, tivo, vcr, sky, cd player etc...

    All of which are controlled quite happily with my pronto remote.
     
  14. HDR

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    Resolution - The number of pixels on the display is 1024 x 1024. However, the way the ALIS panel works (displays all 512 odd lines, then all 512 even lines) the maximum resolution at a given instant (ie every 50th second in PAL) is 1024 x 512.

    So do you class a CRT as a 1*1 resolution display - as at any instance in time it can only be lighting up ( displaying) one pixel due to the way it works????
     
  15. mikeq

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    I understand exactly what you are saying about the 512 resolution, but I also don't understand it.

    Surely the vertical resolution is still 1024. I've read this 512 thing in a few posts now and I think it is maybe confusing some people or misrepresenting exactly what people may be buyng.
     
  16. allygash

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    Guys thx for input,

    Looks like I'm stuck between hitachi 3000 & Pioneer 433mxe.
    Last couple of questions?

    1. Is it true that the Hitachi 3000 CANNOT display Hidef tv etc? Only the commercial version(400e) can... I take it i'd still be able to view Hidef content just not in all its glory??

    2. Is the problem with blacks a big deal on the pioneer 433mxe. I was looking at a 5 plamsa shootout on www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com (is this site anygood?) the pioneer got a bit of a bashing, especially compared to lower res Pany. Yet i see so many good reports of 433mxe in here, confused!

    Thx 4 help.

    Mike.


    Tbrar, man brannigans went years ago, now called brix, similar kinda place, hookers still mob the bar! Your right if i left here i'd really miss the place, thx 4 advice dude...
     
  17. tbrar

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    Hi,

    It is a bit confusing, even trying to getting the wording correct.

    The actual display has a total of 1024 x 1024 pixels, that is how many pixels it has.

    Its an interlaced display, not a progressive display. A progressive display lights all lines of resolution at the same time, ie 60th or 50th of a second (depending on refresh rate).

    An interlaced device displays half the lines of picture information at any given 60th or 50th Second (depending on refresh rate). So an entire image (a frame) takes a 30th second (or a 25th second) to display.

    Given this then, every 60th second (or 50th second) the actual number of pixels in use is 1024 x 512 on an interlaced display and theorectically, on a progressive display would be 1024 x 1024.

    Perhaps a better way to describe its native resolution would be 1024 x 1024i ???.


    A CRT takes 60th second (or 50th) to scan accros line by line to draw half the picture information. An ALIS Paneli dislays half the frame in on go - ie it doesnt scan accross line by line. Thats the difference in the way they work.

    But at every 60th (or 50th) Second, half the Frame is displayed.

    The piont is on both interlaced pictures, although they work differently, not all of the Frame is displayed in one go as with a progressive display which in that same time (60th/50th Second) displays the entire frame.

    When I state any instance in time, I should be more specific. What I mean to say is at any given individual refresh rate time period. (I think?? - Hopefully you know what I mean)



    Tony
     
  18. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Mike,

    This is really something you need to check out yourself, its very subjective.

    The Panny does have better blacks, ie its blacks do look blacker, but some would say the Pioneer has better dark level detail, ie you can see more detail in the picture on darker scenes.

    Depends which is more important to you.

    Also the blacks on the Hitachi and Pioneer are not far off each other, having owned both.

    If I were you I would definatley go and view a short list before taking one home, much the same concept as with Brix I imagine..... :smoke: :laugh:.


    Tony
     
  19. mikeq

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    Thats probably a better way to say it, at any instance(50th of a second) only 512(vertical) pixels are in use.

    But as a whole picture is made up from 2 frames (odd and even) then the resolution is still 1024, no?
     
  20. tbrar

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    Mikeq,

    As stated the panel does have a total of 1024 x 1024 pixels, so if thats how resolution is defined then yes. As an interlaced display, the resolution is 1024 x 1024, two fields, one every 60th or 50th second, making a frame every 30th or 25th of as second.

    But if comparing against a progressive panel then it will be 1024 x 512, because as you stated at any instance (50th/60th second - depending on refresh rate) the interlaced panel will display 512 lines of resolution (horizontal lines counted vertically), whereas a theoretical 1024 x 1024 progressive panel would display all 1024.

    So may be the 1024 x 1024i or 1024 x 512p descriptions fit ? :confused:

    In any case, I think we are saying the same thing !


    Tony
     
  21. Joel

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    MAW: Read the manual!

    All AV channels om the Hitachi are assignable to regular channels, so it's quite easy to operate even with a simple universal remote. I have for instance DVD on channel 9 and PC on channel 0, allowing me to press just one button to watch what I want.

    I don't get where you're coming from when you say that it doesn't integrate well in an A/V system; as it sure does it in mine.

    Easy as pie!

    Joel
     
  22. chrise

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    Allygash

    According to the Hitachi specs only the 42PMA400 will accept a trueHDTV signal of 720/60p or 1080/60i etc. There is a useful sidebar in Apr Home Cinema Choice which states the same. The screens are broadly the same but the control electronics must be quite different as the 42PD3000 only accepts signals up to 625/50p or 525/60p. Of course HDTV sources have much less compression etc so even at reduced definition should look great if the output device can communicate with the screen.

    HDTV is currently somewhat academic in the UK except for people importing DVHS kit.
     

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