Think I've Found The Reason For Blurring??

DIMA NETU said:
Does anybody seeing blur on a disks in R1 NTSC system? I seeing blur on my Sagem Axium only on disks in PAL system and no on NTSC disks. If I do not want to see blur, I switch my player Samsung 745 on NTSC system and looking PAL films through DVI output 1280x720 with frequency of 60 Hz.

DIMA NETU: How does this affect Gladiator 3:16? Does it iradicate that to?
 
strange you notice blurring, i just got mine today, and gladiator was the first dvd i tried on it ( wanted my mate to experience the DTS promo at the start ) there was absolutely no blurring, and that was via s-video!!
( something i intend to remedy ).

on that note, does anyone out there reccomend an hdmi equiped dvd player? which one? and can i output the sound to my pioneer nsdv88 all in one?
 
Hi All - I've been following this blurr issue for some time as I've been considering the Toshiba 46" alongside the Samsung 46" and can't decide which to buy. I wanted to know if you guys think the viewing height/brightness & contrast is the solution and if it has made a difference to those of you who have been experiencing the problem?

I'll be honest the blurr has been one of the issues holding me back from buying the Toshiba - if you hadn't bought one would you say it would have put you off? Is it so bad that you'd regret making the purchase? Also does anyone know if the samsung has a similar problem - i've not seen any posts. I've been reading the various comparisons - HD2+ vs HD3/Sharp vs Soft/Film like etc but the those people who have the Toshiba always seem very pleased - even though there is this "big" blurr issue - how big an issue is it?

I've owned a Toshiba 40" rear pro for six years and never had a problem so I do rate the Toshiba brand. But i've been tempted by the quality of the samsung - also curry's have decent DLP demo running on the samsung and comet have a crappy feed so its hard to compare!

Any advice/feedback would be greatfully received.

Cheers
KableMan
 
Kableman: I've owned the Tosh 46" for about 6 weeks now, and i definately do not regret getting the set. IMHO its a really nice looking set which looks really nice in our room - we've gone for the contemporary look and based our colour scheme around the set. Regarding the blur issue, i did know about this before purchasing. I actually demoed the set twice prior to the purchase, if you don't mind me going on a bit i will explain (as briefly as possible). I went to Comet at Greenwich (although i live near Aylesford in Kent - as my local store didn't have one on display) and took along with me Gladiator (the dreaded test disc) and Spiderman 2. I played Gladiator first, and boy was that blurring bad at 3:16!!!! It looked absolutely pants - and to be perfectly honest it even made me feel sick! It lasts for about 6-7 seconds. I really thought of blowing the Tosh out of my considerations there and then, but thought i would have a look at Spiderman 2 whilst i was there - as Gladiator was quite a dark looking film. Anyway, Spiderman 2 went in the player, and i thought - oh my god - that film looks fantastic - even the sales staff stopped what they were doing and grouped up and started watching the film. It displayed some of the most rich and vibrant looking colours around, and the scenes when spiderman is jumping over the rooftops and falls between the buildings - you really do get a true feeling of falling. Anyway, the Sales guy came over and after a bit of negotiating, i managed to get him down to 1540.00 from 1999.00. I then tried the Gladiator DVD in a Pioneer Plasma - it was the HD display (can't remember the Model No but it was £3000.00) anyway, guess what? As soon as the movie came on - i thought that looks absolute pants! There's no way i would pay 3K for a picture like that - the colours were really week and the picture just looked IMHO awfull compared with the Tosh. And guess what else? Whilst the panning blur at 3:16 wasn't as bad as on the Tosh, it still had blur at 3:16 whilst panning. The test of the Pioneer was certainly enough to make my decision that the Tosh was the one to go for at half the price! Anway, in brief, since i've had the Tosh, i have witnessed panning blurr on other DVD's also, BUT they are no where near as bad as they are on the Gladiator scene, and only last for about 2 seconds tops - when they do occur - and i would estimate a guess that during a DVD you would expierence about max 15-20% blur whereas the other 80-85% would look absolutely fantastic - believe me - i am in no way dissapointed - ive even joined the Blockbuster on-line DVD club where you rent as many DVD's per month as you like for £20, and they have over 23000 films, all sent out first class post (free of charge both ways) with a 3 day turnaround - and i'm getting all the best special effect films out there because the Tosh really looks that good!!! ESPECIALLY THE DAY AFTER TOMMORROW - Check out the screen shots i posted up in the Show Me Yours Thread!!! I've even included standard digital TV shots.
 
Thanks soni - your feedback is much appreciated!

Has the brightness/contrast or viewing height made any difference to your situation re:blurring? Both explanations sound quite promising.

Have you tried any High Definition feeds into the Toshiba? Spider-man 2 sounds impressive even without. I was blown away by the Sagem WMV HD demos - it really looked real and 3d - like a view from a window in places! and I wondered how it might look on the Toshiba.

Thanks again!
KableMan
 
I was certainly confused by the blurring when i got the Tosh set-up. One minute it was there - the next minute it wasn't (the exact same scene as well - 3:16) but then i realised what it was - because i was viewing from a higher seating position. The viewing height definitely affects the blurring - if you know what i mean - its still there but just not as noticeable - and i doubt very much that you'd even notice it at all if it was how it looks from a higher seating position all of the time. However, one of the other forum members gave his opinion on my discovery - being off centre either parallel or vertical affects the contrast - which it quite rightly does, so therefore if you were to change the contrast level, it would probably do the same thing as the seating position - but to give you some idea of how much it bothers me, i haven’t even played around with the contrast to try and see if it does, because apart from that few seconds in Gladiator (which I don’t particularly watch that much of anyway) - it isn't really noticeable on anything else unless you really do pay particular attention - i.e., Garfield has a bit of panning on that birds legs and i noticed it there but you are literally talking - well if i was to say it was 2 seconds worth that would be an exaggeration.

Not every panning shot has blurring either, I’ve seen some really good panning that hasn’t had any blurring at all. Another thing, I’m not in the business of slagging off other sets – as each to their own – but when I viewed the Tosh prior to purchase – twice – the second time it was sat next to the Sagem and they were both displaying the same feed – a music video channel – and although the quality of the feed in-stores are crap anyway, it was noticeable that the Sagem is a lot more smoothed out than the Toshiba – and I believe that the Samsung is to – although that’s only what I’ve read as I haven’t seen the Samsung in the flesh – but basically, from what I’ve witnessed with my own eyes, the Sagem is smooth whereas the Toshiba is more sharper and detailed – I know I would rather have the more sharper and detailed picture than have everything smoothed out – and another thing – I’ve seen a HD basketball feed on the Sagem – and the colours did seem strange to say the least (they looked washed out) – with the whites looking very strange as well.

I certainly wouldn’t let the blurring affect your purchase, as I was also worried and was thinking about cancelling it before it was delivered – I wrote in a post somewhere on these forums that I was thinking about cancelling it prior to delivery, but then I went to see it again in store to make sure I was making the right decision. I think the blurring is more noticeable on the Tosh because of its sharpness and detailed pictures, whereas if it was smoother, then it probably wouldn’t notice as much, but then it would be at the expense of detail!
 
Thanks very much soni for your detailed responses - its what makes this forum so great!

I think you've convinced me that the blurring issue isn't as significant as I first thought and that its actually very subjective - in terms of how much the individual focuses on it. I could live with a few seconds every now and then!

I think I agree that i'd rather see all the detail and maybe have the option to smooth the edges when the source is dodgy rather than have it all smoothed and not have the option to see the full detail if the source was good or HD. Especially when watching DVDs and the like. I did notice softness in the sagem demo especially on moving/panning shots.

Hey on that subject - did you notice a difference when watching normal DVDs like Spider-Man 2 through the HDMI connection rather than say component/progressive? I read that and it suprised me as I thought the HDMI connection was only used for HD feeds?

Well thanks again this is a lot of good food for thought. I really appreciate it. Now I need to arrange a decent demo of the Toshiba - my local comet doesn't even have a DVD player hooked up to it!! These stores are really strange - its like they don't actually want to sell anything! (of course at their prices even with a great feed it'd be a tough sell!)

Cheers
KableMan
 
Kableman: The HDMI connection also confused me to begin with. I have the Denon 2910 player, and it has a HDMI connection. But, it doesn't make it a HD player. The HDMI connection is just there to enable a digital signal to be sent from the player directly to the screen without any conversion, whereas the older methods had to decode the digital signal into analogue and then back into digital, meaning a loss in picture quality. But to be perfectly honest, i don't really know whether it’s really worth having, as some of these gadgets are like leads, in that there improvements are only noticeable under laboratory conditions. I paid £500 for my player from Sevenoaks, managed to get it priced matched, it was £550 and that was on a sale, and it didn't even come with a HDMI cable, whereas i've read on these forums that some guys bought the Panasonic, or was it Samsung, and it came with a HDMI cable. And them players are only half the price of the Denon. Anyway - when i enquired at Sevenoaks about a HDMI cable, the guy recommended this £60.00 cable, i said £60.00!!!!!!, he said that’s a cheap one, we've got £200 cables here, and there only 1M!!!!!!!!!!

I ended up getting a QED HDMI cable on-line for £45.00 which provides a fantastic picture, and as i said above, the £200 cable might provide a better signal under laboratory testing, but are you really going to notice it with the human eye? - I very much doubt it!
 
I agree with Soni on this. Anyone who has bought a £200 cable will tell you it makes a difference.......because they have paid £200 for it. I used to do the same with Hi-Fi paying 100s for speaker cables and then convincing myself that there was a significant difference (there wasn't!). Bottom line, audition before you buy. If you dont see a difference, there isn't one.
 
I haven't checked the Gladiator movie for blurring, or tried bobbing up and down but wondered whether you are in any way referring to the anaglyph type 3D colour fringe blurring that happens on a moderate speed pan or tilt?

This, together with the rainbow effect, are the only adverse effects that I have noticed so far. Also, and this is probably just me, but after having run the set for 10 days or so, the picture appears to have even improved from when I first switched it on.
Some Sky was excellent last night including even Haunted Live. The picture definitely seems smoother than when I first viewed the set.

It really is an excellent picture, and for the size ( and I'm sitting a little closer than the recommended distance advised in What Hi Fi ) the picture seems to defy physics as it is only standard definition TV through scart or component. I haven't yet tried HDMI.

BTW is there a considerable improvement by using HDMI or is it perhaps worth waiting for HDDVD before shelling out more money in pursuit of video heaven?

What Hi Fi gave the set a 4* rating compared to the 5* of the Themescene ( Optoma? ) set. Any comments?

Regards, Thomas
 
£500 in your pocket? :)

I have the 46WM48 and love it.

I coupled mine with the Panasonic S97 via HDMI, and for the money, I doubt you can beat the combination for quality, certainly until true high definition DVD is available.

Yes, you get the dreaded blur, but the only shows I see this in are Corrie and Emmerdale - no great loss then there!
 
electrosim2001 said:
I haven't checked the Gladiator movie for blurring, or tried bobbing up and down but wondered whether you are in any way referring to the anaglyph type 3D colour fringe blurring that happens on a moderate speed pan or tilt?

This, together with the rainbow effect, are the only adverse effects that I have noticed so far. Also, and this is probably just me, but after having run the set for 10 days or so, the picture appears to have even improved from when I first switched it on.
Some Sky was excellent last night including even Haunted Live. The picture definitely seems smoother than when I first viewed the set.

It really is an excellent picture, and for the size ( and I'm sitting a little closer than the recommended distance advised in What Hi Fi ) the picture seems to defy physics as it is only standard definition TV through scart or component. I haven't yet tried HDMI.

BTW is there a considerable improvement by using HDMI or is it perhaps worth waiting for HDDVD before shelling out more money in pursuit of video heaven?

What Hi Fi gave the set a 4* rating compared to the 5* of the Themescene ( Optoma? ) set. Any comments?

Regards, Thomas

The only thing i would recommend is make sure you get a DVD player with a decent scaler - i say this because when i demoed the Tosh the first time, i took along my own DVD player (at that time it was a four-year old Tosh) and The Matrix DVD. All i could see on the screen was Jaggies!!! Every dark line showed like a flight of stairs! I then tried it on the DVD player they originally had it linked up to, (a £100 Sony) and that showed up the Jaggies equally as bad. But, i got my Denon 2910 DVD player delivered prior to receiving delivery of the Tosh, so ever since i've had the Tosh DLP, its been running DVD's from the Denon - and i've never seen a Jaggie!!! If it wasn't for needing a decent scaling player to get rid of the Jaggies, i wouldn't have bothered upgrading the player until next year when either HD DVD or Blueray becomes available, but i just couldn't live with a new TV showing DVD's with jaggies like i saw in store - they were terrible!
 
By the way - i've just got back from Blueater cinema, took my daughter to see a film, cost me £15 on sweets and £10.00 for the tickets (reserved tickets). I would have rather spent that money on DVD's, and sat at home and watched them on the Tosh DLP!!! Today is the first time i've been to the cinema since owning the Tosh, and couldn't believe what the picture was like. Every few seconds, little thread like particles were appearing on the screen, and thinking about it, i remember seeing these before when i used to go regularly. People are worried about the Tosh showing up a little bit of blur now and again (and it is only a little bit now and again) but they don't mind spending out an average of £12 per head to go and see a film at the cinema where every few seconds without fail - you get these thread like artifacts flickering all over the screen! Also, i prefer my own surround sound - and i aint joking on that one! IMHO my own surround sound knocks spots off of what i heard today and that is no Bol**cks!!!! I'll be expanding on the DVD library and will be advertising tickets in the local press!!!!
 
soni said:
Another thing, I’m not in the business of slagging off other sets – as each to their own – but when I viewed the Tosh prior to purchase – twice – the second time it was sat next to the Sagem and they were both displaying the same feed – a music video channel – and although the quality of the feed in-stores are crap anyway, it was noticeable that the Sagem is a lot more smoothed out than the Toshiba – and I believe that the Samsung is to – although that’s only what I’ve read as I haven’t seen the Samsung in the flesh – but basically, from what I’ve witnessed with my own eyes, the Sagem is smooth whereas the Toshiba is more sharper and detailed – I know I would rather have the more sharper and detailed picture than have everything smoothed out – and another thing – I’ve seen a HD basketball feed on the Sagem – and the colours did seem strange to say the least (they looked washed out) – with the whites looking very strange as well.

a few points for those put off the sagem by reading this...
the sagem does not suffer from blurring.
on hidef and pc material it should be a lot sharper than the tosh (since its true 1:1 pixel mapping).
also i thought that the sagem had a higher contrast ratio? i realise tosh have under rated their set, but the new hd45's is ever higher than the hd50.

don't get me wrong i am not a sagem owner (yet) but been reading this forum for a while now and am really confused between the tosh and the sagem hd45, i've only ever seen the tosh with an rf feed so might have to take laptop down to costco at some point :p
 

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