There are other recorders other than Panasonic machines

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by bobbles, Jan 5, 2004.

  1. bobbles

    bobbles
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    I own an E30 so I am not in anyway anti-panasonic

    it seems to me that the majority of threads on these forums are panasonic based. I think this is hugely affecting people's first dvdr buy

    Due to more panny owners, due to the HS2 being the first decent HD DVDR

    try not to be blind to the other machines

    if you have sky+ or a normal sky box or freeview that outputs s-video then there are many more options

    HD Versions

    Panny HS2 (40Gb) mid £500 MR
    Panny E100 (80Gb) mid £700 MR
    Tosh XS30 (60Gb) under £500 (£520 MR aparantly)
    Poineer 5100 (80Gb) mid £600

    I think without doubt the best machine of these is the Poineer closely followed by the Tosh. Unless you need firewire I don't really think the Poineer justifies the extra money.

    I am just shocked how many people are buying the E100 on these forums. If you are buying a new dvdr I would advise you do more research than just these

    As for none HD versions

    the JVC / Poineer 3100 / Tosh DR1 all appear excellent machines that have huge advantages over the E50

    just advise, act on it, ignore it, whatever. It is just here.
     
  2. hornydragon

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    Question is Bob why are so many manufactirers ignoring RGB?
    THis works massively in pannys favour!
    But the JVC M1 is a superb peice of kit! Prog scan output from a prerecorded disc to the 26" JVC LCD is superb!
     
  3. bobbles

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    US and Japan don't give a monkeys about rgb

    On my crt the difference between s-video and rgb on broadcast is slight

    I have made this point before but regardless of s-video or not the tosh produces much better quality recordings than the pansonic.

    the difference increases with the recording length, the difference at EP length is huge

    don't get me wrong if someone said would you like an rgb in too i would say yes please whack it in

    i do think the other advantages of the poineer/tosh far outweigh the rgb issue.

    but only considering the rgb issue for a second. I would watch a dvd on rgb over s-video of course but i really don't think it is an issue when recording a dvd (the tosh and poineer both output rgb)

    the only was the panasonic would archive to a better pq than the poineer or tosh is if you achived everything at XP rate. Who does this????
     
  4. Phil.LFC

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    Maybe it's because it has great reviews in many magazines and from people on here who have bought one and used one. Same goes for the HS2 - but I've got to say that as I've just bought one:eek:
    You're just trying to make us new (and very happy:D :D ) panasonic DVD/HDD owners think that we've made a mistake:nono:
    I am more than happy with my HS2, but I have not compared it directly with other machines so I would not be able to argue which one is better.
    At the end of the day, if you're happy with whatever you've spent your hard earned cash on, that's all that matters isn't it?
    Regarding research,I have done so much reading of online reviews and magazines prior to purchasing my HS2. It is just typical that days afterwards you start reading that perhaps you made the wrong choice :rolleyes:
     
  5. hornydragon

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    The problem is a Tosh + stanard Sky box or cable will surely not look better in composite than RGB?
    Hence a simple high quality recording DVD deck is at £250 the E-50 simple!
    at £400+ its more complicated with the MI JVC, SONY machines pios and toshes, I love pio DVD players! but i think lack of RGB will be a bad move! Personally i cant wait for an E100 with twin digital tuners and a 7 day EPG!
     
  6. bobbles

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    true I agree with you about most standard sky boxes

    I did make that point

    The post wasn't designed to make people who have just bought an E100 / HS2 think they have made a mistake. It is just to try to redress the balance somewhat

    this forum is dominated by Panasonic and if more posts like this existed before you bought you may have chosen with more of an open mind

    and as for reviews .... hmmm come on

    I would always take the opinion of someone who owns a machine over that of a reviewer who has played with it for a few hours and read the other reviews. They also may have other agenda and bias.

    The HS2 is a good machine I wouldn't upgrade as such to the other models the difference isn't huge. However, if I was buying a new machine to pay over 100 more for the E100 over the Pioneer makes no sense what-so-ever
     
  7. JH4

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    I will champion the cause of the new Pioneer 5100H which has so many improvements and extra features over their previous model.
    It's a lot to get to grips with, but well worth the effort, and it records at nearly 10Mb/s, beating commercial DVDs which occasionally max at this bit rate if your really lucky.
    The editing, speed copying and titleing features, camcorder DV control and picture quality are all excellent.
     
  8. bobbles

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    it does sound an excellent machine

    I do not see the point in recording at that rate for sky mind you it has already been compressed a silly amount
     
  9. phelings

    phelings
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    Apart from a camcorder,who can use 10mb/s properly.The Pioneer is one I have been looking at ,but the lack of RGB is bad.Panasonic dominate as only they and Philips produce recorders with RGB,which is essential for standard digiboxes-and who will risk recommending Philips stuff.
    Like the look of the Pioneer "backup" feature.
    Someone wrote that one of the HDD/DVDR machines lacked the essential "divide" feature.Any ideas?
     
  10. bobbles

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    i replied to that on another thread

    the tosh can combine two titles into one it can not split one title into two

    if you want to do this you create a playlist which is very quick and easy to do

    you can add chapter points where ever you like within titles however

    is the back up feature you refer to the high speed dub of -r to hdd?

    remember this can not be done with protected dvds.

    this feature does sound useful but tbh if you need 2 copies why not make 2 originally?
     
  11. phelings

    phelings
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    I like the idea of being able to take any of my dvdr discs and produce a copy of identical quality
     
  12. bobbles

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    well because of this and the camcorder issue you would be far better off with the Poineer than the tosh i think the extra money is well justified in your case

    I'm not convinced it is worth it as you already have the HS2 mind you
     
  13. Indiana Jones

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    For a first time DVD Recorder buyer it is all very overwhelming, first I was going to get an E50, then after thinking about it I thought an HS2 would be good, but then after reading through a thread I decided the Toshiba XS30 was the machine for me, now I think that I would be best with the E50 and getting a DVD-ROM drive for my computer that can read RAM so I can author them on my PC and then use my DVD Writer to burn to dvdr, how am I going to decide what to spend my money on lol
     
  14. bobones

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    Indiana Jones, I was fortunate enough to get my MR E50 when they were at their cheapest and Richer Sounds still did a £10 price beat on dvd recorders. I got mine for £227. I soon realized I needed a PC burner to make edited dvd-rs, and as I wanted a cartridge ram capable machine, I went for the Panny LF-M621 (x4 dvd-r, x3 dvd-ram), which I got for £137 from the Panasonic Eshop.

    This has been a killer combination. The software package with the Panny burner is excellent for RAM recording, but add TMPGEnc DVD Author, and there's really nothing to beat it.

    If you already have a dvd burner, then a ram dvd-rom will do. But you won't find one that takes RAM in caddies (you'll need to remove the discs) and you'll need to copy the RAM contents to the hard disk before authoring.
     
  15. Indiana Jones

    Indiana Jones
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    Thanks for that, I was wondering about removing the RAM discs from the cases, is this possible on both single and double sided RAM disc?
     
  16. CLH

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    FWIW I find that the quality of recordings on my Sony GX7 is better than the quality on my HS2.
     
  17. jda

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    This site was recomeded to me when I asked this question. Complete with instructions follow link to cartridge info.


    Jim
     
  18. bobones

    bobones
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    Yes, as long as they're type 2 (single-sided) or type 4 (double-sided). Older type 1 can't be removed.

    Removal involves knocking out a locking pin on the front of the caddy, inserting a pen in a groove on the side, then opening the bottom of the case. Pretty simple, but obviously, the disc can then be contaminated with dirt, fingerprints and scratches.
     
  19. Kevo

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    I've recently bought the Pan E100 and am very pleased with it.

    One of the main issues that swayed me was RGB. (as well as DV IN)

    It's far superior to S-video especially now that there are a lot of on screen menus when using the recorder and on the finished DVDRs. S-Video just doesn't come close in stability and clarity and just makes me squint when reading text on screen. (40" RP)

    I've been used to RGB for the past 5 years and am not prepared to settle for anything less when it comes to Digital meda.

    Anyone buying a new DVD Recorder should REALLY consider RGB and DV in before purchasing.

    Who's to say you won't upgraed your TV in the future to a larger model where you WILL notice the difference.
     
  20. bobbles

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    that's your opinion it's my opinion that opinion is complete ********

    (sorry but i'm annoyed because of another thread)

    unless you are recording in XP (and what is the point in doing that on sky's already compressed madia) it makes no difference

    to repeat an earlier point

    at 2hr+ recordings the tosh produces better pq than the panny models. The difference increases with the rec length. At EP rates there is a huge difference.

    RGB is very important when playing back original dvd but when you are making your own recordings from tv it makes no difference what so ever. Ok, at XP there is a tiny tiny amount of difference.

    remember the tosh/poineer both output rgb

    DV is a different issue altogether here. Keen camcorder people should not consider the tosh. The Pioneer would be a much better option

    IMO if you own sky+ want to archive TV and want to do DV stuff then to pay over £100 for the E100 over the Poineer is complete insanity
     
  21. gringottsdirect

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    The combo I saw was worse than bad VHS.
    It was tried with X-Men 2, Robbie Williams Live At Knebworth, The Fellowship Of The Rings and an NTSC DTS demo disc.
    The connections and settings were checked, two samples of DR-M1 were used, it looked just as bad with S-video and RGB and composite.
    The dealer connected it to an LT-26C31 when we were returning it for a refund, being of the opinion something was wrong with it. He agreed the PQ was lousy except on still images.
    It has been posted in another DR-M1 thread, but no-one has yet explained why the Pal-Progressive output through component video outputs displays a picture on non-pal-progressive capable TVs. I suspect it is not true Pal-Progressive.
    Magazine reviews for JVC DR-M1 are inconsistant, one says it's so bad it's not worth reading the review, whilst Essential Home Cinema prefers it to the Panasonic DMR-E50. Does this model suffer variable build quality ?
    On paper it's a good buy, but having had a string of dodgy Philips recorders which all had a superior PQ, I can't see why there's such a following for the JVC ? :rolleyes:
     
  22. Kevo

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    bobbles

    Another thing I forgot to mention, I'm on NTL which doesn't have S-video out, only RGB and composite. For S-video I would need to purchase a converter (which I don't want to do) and I certainly don't want to record in composite, so RGB is the only option for me with cable.

    If I did have S-video as an option then I would be forced to watch live TV in this mode rather than superior RGB, which is DEFINATLEY more noticeable on digital tv.

    With RGB pass thru it's much more convenient when watching live TV and /or recording.
     
  23. dude1971

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    No, only single discs can be removed.

    I've had an E60 since November, and while I am happy with it I do wish that I'd gone for a HDD/DVD recorder combi instead.
     
  24. bobones

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    Type 4 double-sided discs can be removed from their caddies.
     
  25. Indiana Jones

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    Seems the argument that RGB on the Panny is better than S-Video on the Tosh has been brought up again, think the only person who can say what is the best is someone who owns both machines and there have been plenty of posts by someone who does and he has said the Toshiba gives better quality just because the video on a Panny has to be re-encoded twice to get it from the HDD to the DVD-R but on the Toshiba it doesnt it does a perfect copy so the little extra quality RGB would provide is removed when it is re-encoded to DVD-R.
     
  26. Kevo

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    Tha's not a problem as I normally use High Speed or FR Dub from HDD to RAM amd then author to DVDR on the PC.
     
  27. bobbles

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    my previous post was ott i did put the reason, not that is an excuse mind you ;)

    Even though the tosh does not have rgb in it does allow an rgb pass through via the sat moni function. This basically switches what it outputs through the av1 scart from the tosh to the av2 input source . A nice feature imo. You can even use it when the machine is recording.

    However, if my main media device didn't output s-video I probably wouldn't have bought the tosh.
     
  28. bobbles

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    was it really necessary to pay all that money for E100 when you use your pc to edit

    even if you think the HDD is necessary which it might well be with no sky+ was it worth paying over 200 more than the HS2?

    the e100 seems to have very little benefits other than a bigger HD


    i would have thought handling double sided ram out of their caddies was awkward
     
  29. Kevo

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    That's what I wanted too. I do a fair bit of time shifting.

    I've not come across any problems as i'm mainly using single sided.

    Also another thing that swayed it. The HS2 has two flaws, a lip synch problem when watching live TV pass thru and a 'screen flicker' problem which both have been reported on this and other DVDR forums on several posts.
    These have both been eradicated with the E100.

    Any other 'suggestions' to make me feel I have wasted my money?
     
  30. bobbles

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    didn't realise those faults they don't report that on the spec ;)

    edit - i'm not being sarcastic i would probably do the same in your position if sky+ was not an option

    it sounds like you have indeed made a wise purchase mr kevo an extra 40Gb will make a big difference without sky


    no one should ever feel they have wasted their money they may an amount they feel is justified for the product and if it does what it says on the tin they should be happy
     

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