The Wonderful Problem Ahead: Archiving Sky HD Content

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by The_Censor, Mar 19, 2006.

  1. The_Censor

    The_Censor
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    In all this Sky HD hysteria (well, inpatience at having to wait), it has only occured to me now that anyone lucky enough to get Sky HD is going to have a beautiful, really wonderfully annoying problem.

    If the broadcasts live up to expectations, we are going to get wonderfully clear football matches, all the US dramas, and this brilliant BBC Series Planet Earth all in HD - Now if anyone is at all like me, you find yourself archiving alot of Sky+ content onto a Hard Disk DVD Recorder and subsequently onto DVD - This is wonderful for me, I don't really have alot of time to watch everything, but I don't have to worry as I can archive it for a less hectic time/rainy day.

    But with Sky HD, I am going to want to have 24, Desperate Housewives, Footy, Docus, Films, and Planet Earth all kept - I will also want to watch them again to admire the quality - But this HD Box has very limited space for storing the content, and as far as I know there does not exist a current method for archiving the content as is in an HD resolution. Add to this, that Sky are going to want to prevent you ever backing up or archiving HD content, and once the boxes are HDMI this will be nigh on impossible.

    Now I know that it is early days and perhaps a way will be found to provide a solution or workaround to keeping and archiving HD material - But for the first six month's at least, the early adopters will have to watch the HD programmes and delete, I'd say 1 full series of 24 and the full series of Planet Earth would fill your box completely! :rolleyes:

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. paulfoley

    paulfoley
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    Recordable HD-DVD / Blu Ray will be with us soon but will be very expensive to begin with (as was Recordable DVD). I think the answer to doing it cheaply lies in that new SATA Connector on the box - 250GB Sky Branded Hard Drives perhaps?

    :rolleyes:
     
  3. avinitski

    avinitski
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    if the first batch of Sky HD boxes use component output then thats one way to output to your pc to record your programmes.
     
  4. sanderton

    sanderton
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    How would you record a HD component output on your PC? HD digitising cards start at £2k.

    Hopefully SkyHD will allow DIY HD upgrades, and there is a SATA socket which should allow an external hard disk.

    I don't think output to a BluRay or HD-DVD recorder will be possible because of the copy protection.
     
  5. The_Censor

    The_Censor
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    That's what I was thinking. Sky won't want you 'copying' HD content, and will actively try and block/prevent it from being possible. Houston, we have a problem! :suicide:
     
  6. Starburst

    Starburst
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    SKY doesn't give a toss if you copy programs but the content owners who SKY have to buy from certainly do:)

    Macrovision and HDCP is forced on SKY just as it will be on us.
    The reason HD over analogue component is being allowed is simply the hit any new HD system will take if the market is only for HDCP compliant displays plus at the end of the day it's always been the copying of 100% perfect digital data over digital links that has been the concern.

    Time will tell how recordable blue laser systems are allowed to work.
     
  7. Member 55145

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    i know a way, just waiting for a box ;)
     
  8. daKlone

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    Are you sure that they will prevent it? After all, current Sky+ boxes have the "Copy" facility so perhaps the HD boxes will have something similar.

    Although having said that, I expect that the HD "Copy" function would only output in SD or some such wheeze, just to hack you off :rolleyes:

    As to the SATA connector - didn't I hear somewhere that it's for a "Sky Portable" device of some kind and not a HDD?
     
  9. Starburst

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    The USB port has been used to demonstrate a portable media device by Thomson way back in the initial 160 days and it's far more common a connection than SATA will ever be in the user base.
     
  10. craigae

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    All the US dramas are avialable online in 720p anyway. So, if you've paid to watch them via Sky, does that give you the right to download them =p

    As for me, life is too short to archive telly- there's something new on everyday :) I don't think I've ever filled up my 120gb Sky+.

    And surely this Sky HD box will be fairly new, meaning a 500gb hard drive will install right in there for those obsessed with playing around :)
     
  11. Stoelen

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    It si still a big IF with the component output? The rules for recording HDTV looks like this: You will be able to record to the internal harddisc of Sky-HDbox and play it from there,but- you will not be able to put it on any kind of disc to be used on other players. If this is not the case I will be very happy.but lets be realistic about this. No copying on disc.
    Stoelen
     
  12. Flimber

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    Would a Sweetspot card not be able to capture the HD stream via component ?
     
  13. daKlone

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    Erm, okay :)
     
  14. Fusewire

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    I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you, sky have a long and distinguished record of putting USB ports, Card Slots and various other connections on their boxes that have ultimatly never been used :eek: Hope I'm wrong but I guess time will tell. ;)

    For me the way forward would be to upgrade the HDD, a 1 terrabyte HDD should do the trick me thinks. :D
     
  15. Starburst

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    Don't worry about that, if they had released it 18 months ago then it may have had legs but the market has moved on and I reckon they've missed the window:)

    I would have thought a HDD upgrade is a no brainer, of course the SATA will be switched off in the software until SKY releases branded upgrades:(
     
  16. Thxfan

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    A lot of folks managed to upgrade their Sky+ Hard drives themselves without too much trouble, so unless Sky have found some way to stop you getting inside, or are using a non-standard Hard Drive it shouldnt be too hard to upgrade:)
     
  17. mobile1

    mobile1
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    No cos it's not got a component in, only a component out. PC devices with HD inputs as stated earlier in this thread cost LOTS of money - have a look at Teranex equipment - will do the job but costs many thousands:thumbsdow
     
  18. dr no

    dr no
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    I don't understand why anyone has the right to stop us from making a copy oany prog. on HD. Why is this dissimilar to the way we used record onto VHS in the old days and onto DVD these days? We pay a subscription for these progs don't we? It's not like it costs them anymore money to produce HD as they are produced in HD in the first place.
     
  19. wandersen

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    Not quite £2K but still not cheap. You need one of these:

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=259904&is=REG

    Which sets you back around £900. Then it is pretty easy to find an SDI capture card.
     
  20. bbdivo

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    Actually that Sweetspot card does accept component input and seems to allow for streaming around your network.
     
  21. Starburst

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    Yes but so much more elegant a solution to be able to connect an external drive on the fly and maintain the original drive intact.
     
  22. Starburst

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    First there is no practical way to record HD from these boxes since they are restricted to component and HDMI, if we had firewire STB's or PC based solutions then it would be a different matter so no point going on about what a consumers rights are in relation to content:)
    That chestnut has been around for decades and never resolved in out favour, the DVD may be yours but the content still belongs to the studio.
    Recording SD and downconverted HD will not be a problem apart perhaps from PPV which already use macrovision.

    We still do not know exactly how the upcoming Blu-ray recorder will handle HD sources via HDMI or Component but certainly in the short term the disks will be so expensive then the idea of going to car boot and picking up the latest movie isn't going to happen.
    For archeiving purposes then the system will probably allow you to copy HD with little hassle but sharing content is a different matter.
     
  23. Fusewire

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    Is this a hint of sarcasm or are you being serious, as I can't see how trying to cram yet another box under the TV and adding another lead to the spagetti of wires and leads that is already there an elegant solution. :confused:

    Surely a one time removal of the drive and the fitment of a suitable large drive (A twenty minute job if sky+ is anything to go by) would be more elegant, and pleasing to the eye (if it is technically possible).:smashin:

    Or am I missing something ?????:rolleyes:
     
  24. Flimber

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    Exactly. Unless there's some restriction I'm not aware of, that'll do the trick. If it won't then I'm sure someone'll be along to this thread shortly to tell us otherwise. :thumbsup:

    Mike.
     
  25. wandersen

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    It would also be nice if the data could be stored on a network drive somewhere using that could be connected to using the CAT5 connector.

    I don't mind if it's covered by the strongest DRM in the world - but it would just be good to be able to use the 2TB of external storage I have in my study.
     
  26. shaithis

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    Sky will almost surely leave the raw data stream from the satelite on the hdd.

    So, it willl need to be decoded by you SkyHD box before its viewable each time.


    I thought we had a right to record the TV we watch? If so, I find it hard to understand why Sky go to the limits they do to stop us making an archive. They should just have added a Firewire output on the box :(
     
  27. Starburst

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    No sarcasm:)

    Plug and play an external drive caddy/enclosure via a single cable (data and power) without opening up the box and risking the warranty or damage (not everyone is comfortable with diy) and keeping the orginal drive intact is far more simple a solution.

    My opinion only of course but I know my way around a PC so quite comfortable installing hard drives but for SKY+ I would favour adding a 500gig SATA drive in a nice enclousure sitting next to the STB rather than opening up the box and swapping out a perfectly good 300gig drive with a 500gig+.
     
  28. Starburst

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    Yes SKY+ HD is a bitstream recorder.

    SKY do not own the rights, the buy/lease the rights and restrictions are imposed on them by the studios and distributors, HDCP is one of them and the limitations on HD component is more down to the hardware market and not the rights holders.
    The content owners do not want people to be able to make 100% perfect digital copies which most people can understand even if they themselves have no intent on piracy. That is perhaps why they have eased back on the restrictions on HD over component on HD STB's and HD-DVD/Blu-ray.

    Firewire does not have the digital protection HDMI/DVI has which is why it is becoming a thing of the past for HD receivers. Older US STB's sported firewire simply because there was no way to restrict digital links so no reason not to make use of it.
     
  29. Flimber

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    From the previous thread on all this, how about these things ?
     
  30. shaithis

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    Have been looking at those but still unsure wether they will work with SkyHD.

    Will keep an eye on the situation and see if they are compatible when released and may take up SkyHD with mutiroom and use the multiroom connection + viewing card for that box.

    Would be great if it works, although I am not expecting too much yet.
     

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