The Vegan and Vegetarian Thread

IronGiant

Moderator
Something that is often forgotten is that not all land that is used for grazing animals is suitable for growing crops on. So it turns out that the most sustainable/efficient use of farmland averages out as mostly laid out to crops with a small amount of meat and dairy. (Far less than in a current meat eating diet). It would also no doubt be a lot healthier if we cut down on the dairy and meat. This is ignoring any ethical considerations, but it does seem that abolishing all meat and dairy in favour of plants is not the most economic way forwards.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Thinking about it, Chadford is quite correct in some respects.

My grandparents ate meat every day because the energy was required. My parents ate meat about five days out of seven purely because Indian, Italian and Chinese cuisine was available. We eat meat about four days in the week because of the overseas cuisine and because meat is now so bloody expensive!
 

Chadford

Distinguished Member
Insects as a form of protein is looking pretty feasible. It would take sea change in the UK's population to adopt insects as a food source, but hey who knows?

I listened to a radio program a few months ago where a number students were given burgers, one 100% beef, one 70% beef / 30% insect protein (I think the insects were mealworm protein). On a blind test the guys preferred the beef/insect combo rather than beef only. This sort of small change I think could be beneficial for all sorts of reasons.

This is worth a look (the facts seem to be pretty accurate).


Eating insects does rather blur the lines in terms of being vegetarian or not, OK an insect is not a vegetable, but does eating insects go against the ideology of not eating meat? I don't know?

:)

Horizon: Should I Eat Meat? BBC 2 9:00pm (tonight and on wednesday) Should be interesting.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Pigs eat vegetables and humans eat pigs. Vegetarians cut out the middleman and just eat the vegetables.

I suppose by eating pigs we are eating processed vegetables.
 

Chadford

Distinguished Member
Pigs eat vegetables and humans eat pigs. Vegetarians cut out the middleman and just eat the vegetables.

I suppose by eating pigs we are eating processed vegetables.

For myself, although not a vegetarian. One of the biggest influences I've come across was a Japanese film about 20 years ago where a guy goes into a noodle bar and gets a bowl of broth, he gives a small prayer to thank the food that is going to sustain him, this seems in some way equatable.
People that throw away take away food on the street to my mind regardless of whether you are vegetarian or not seems completely disrespectful, I don't like it.

:)
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
For myself, although not a vegetarian. One of the biggest influences I've come across was a Japanese film about 20 years ago where a guy goes into a noodle bar and gets a bowl of broth, he gives a small prayer to thank the food that is going to sustain him, this seems in some way equatable.
People that throw away take away food on the street to my mind regardless of whether you are vegetarian or not seems completely disrespectful, I don't like it.

:)
I can't equate the possession of goodness with sustenance.

Throwing way food is very common practice with all animals. A fox in a hen coop will kill all the hens and eat one. Lions will often bring down a large pray and only eat a portion, leaving the rest for the hyenas, wild dogs and vultures.

An elephant will uproot a tree to eat the leaves and leave the tree for dead. A herd of elephants will destroy many trees. Goats will pull up the grass, roots and all, and leave whole areas denuded of growth which leaves the topsoil blowing away in the wind and rain.
 

blue max

Distinguished Member
Give it a thousand years and things will almost certainly have changed to some degree. You can't expect a couple of generations to make radical changes.
My nephew went vegetarian a few years ago. Lasted about 18 months and now he has decided to only eat organic meat. But he's not paying, so easy to be so principled.:)
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
What I approve of is the quality of vegetarian food constantly improves.

A vegetable lasagne or a vegetable curry with mushroom bhaji or a mushroom and broccoli tagliatelle sprinkled with grated cheese, for example.

Yum... :D
 

Chadford

Distinguished Member
[QUOTE="blue max, post: 21042758, member: 122597"
My nephew went vegetarian a few years ago. Lasted about 18 months and now he has decided to only eat organic meat. But he's not paying, so easy to be so principled.:)[/QUOTE]

Organic chickens are three times more likely to have contracted compilabaterus.

:thumbsdow
 

blue max

Distinguished Member
[QUOTE="blue max, post: 21042758, member: 122597"
My nephew went vegetarian a few years ago. Lasted about 18 months and now he has decided to only eat organic meat. But he's not paying, so easy to be so principled.:)
Organic chickens are three times more likely to have contracted compilabaterus.

:thumbsdow[/QUOTE]

I didn't know what that meant and neither does google. :D

I rather think the focus for him was the welfare of the animal, but no matter how you dress it up, it's the same result.
 

blue max

Distinguished Member
I didn't know what that meant and neither does google. :D
UK Organic Chickens Far More Likely To Have Campylobacter
Bacteria



Don't get me wrong I'm as hypocritical as the rest of us, but this idea that* looking after animals * just to slaughter them for food is somehow better, more natural, jeez???, its barking mad.

:thumbsdow[/QUOTE]

I am against intensive farming methods. Particularly when the animals suffer more than they need to. Additionally, their welfare is improved when they have a more natural life and diet. If that leads to a better flavour, so much the better.
I can't afford to be organic, but avoid the bargain bucket stuff. Free range eggs, rather than barn or organic etc.
That surely is a win, win situation. And if the cost is more, then naturally it will lead to less consumption. That is another win, win with health benefits.
I'm not really looking forward to the documentaries as they always have an angle or point to make. Of course there are awful practices. I very much hope the worse of those fail or get shut down.
 
The future is lab grown 3D printed meat. Zero suffering, zero ecological damage, and better tasting (assuming they can grow fat cells) steak.
 

SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
I am part vegetarian, in the fact that my Mrs is so I eat what she cooks. As I am a runner and into general fitness though I do start noticing after 7-10 days that I need some red meat to give me and my legs a bit of energy(high protein/iron whatever it may be that helps) this is not imaginary by any means and more recently I have taken it upon myself to buy the odd bit of liver and steak every few days. I eat loads of tuna but that doesn't have the same impact. I tend to avoid chicken due to the afore mentioned diseases and salmonella.
 

Sonic67

Banned
So you have a horse in your garden to get from A to B?
I wouldn't bring horses into it. It illustrates the point perfectly.

While horses were useful to us the country was full of them. Once we built internal combustion engines we didn't need millions of horses and their numbers declined.

There were about 3.3 million horses in late Victorian Britain.[104] In 1900 about a million of these were working horses,[105] but by 1914 this number had dropped to between 20,000 and 25,000.[106]

Stop eating chickens and they won't all be roaming free over the countryside. They will be culled once and for all. Maybe some kept as pets or for eggs or something but they are only in the numbers they are as they serve a use. Eggs, and food.

If we ever create lots of artificial meat expect to see a lot of animals we eat decline in number.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Stop eating chickens and they won't all be roaming free over the countryside. They will be culled once and for all. Maybe some kept as pets or for eggs or something but they are only in the numbers they are as they serve a use. Eggs, and food.

If we ever create lots of artificial meat expect to see a lot of animals we eat decline in number.
And animals that compete for our veggies and crops will have a hard time too...
 

Chadford

Distinguished Member
I think we could do with a global pandemic. Regardless of religion or ethics, we could do with rather less folk on the planet than we have. Perhaps with less folk the ideology of eating meat would be simpler.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
I think we could do with a global pandemic. Regardless of religion or ethics, we could do with rather less folk on the planet than we have. Perhaps with less folk the ideology of eating meat would be simpler.
Does that include you or your family?

... Or just other people.
 

EarthRod

Distinguished Member
Just too many rats in the box, that's all. A sad fact that humanity is currently a pollutant on the planet.
Humanity is currently on top of the food chain and that can change at the drop of a hat.

All that it takes is for the sun to hiccup and throw out some plasma, or for a random medium-size meteor strike, or for the Yellowstone Park 'bubble' to burst or many other natural 'disturbances' and your wish will come true.
 

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