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The usual new boy scaler question please

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by MikePaonessa, Apr 21, 2005.

  1. MikePaonessa

    MikePaonessa
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    Hi,
    cool forum, almost too much information, I've changed my mind about 10 times already!

    Anyway I've got the following,

    Pioneer PDP433 HDE Plasma
    Pioneer DVD737 DVD
    Sky Box (not Sky+).

    The million dollar question, will a scaler improve the picture (especially for sky)?

    If so which one?

    Also what would be the best way of connecting up?

    I know you've heard it all before but I really would appreciate some advice (Is Gordon out there?).

    Thanks.
     
  2. SeanT

    SeanT
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    any scaler should improve the sky picture, i bought an AVTools Imagemax thingermajigy and the difference with ntl is like night and day.
    Expensive scalers are for those with BIG high resolution screens who want to scale up DVD aswell as crappy TV and video pics!
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  4. SeanT

    SeanT
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    lol, nope, with a crappy little sonix lcd !
     
  5. Robert Hill

    Robert Hill
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    And I ditto this question also, except I've got a 434HDE,Pioneer 668HDI, Sky box. The Iscan+ is of most interest mainly due to price factor being £800ish
     
  6. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello all

    We've combined the Lumagen Vision and DVDO iScan ranges with both of the Pioneer PlasmaTV models mentioned to good effect.

    You are restricted to which Inputs you can use and what 'scaled' signals you can Input to the TV Media Box - 720P(60) via YUV on the 433HDE and 720P/1080i at 50/60Hz via HDMI on the 434HDE.

    The 433HDE being 'NTSC' Progressive compatible only is an obvious restriction when your trying to improve your 576i(50) SKY signal - unless your happy Frame Rate Converting the Interlaced 50Hz signal to a Progressive 60Hz signal.

    Robert - the UK SRP's of the units we've used are DVDO iScanHD @ £805.00, DVDO iScanHD+ @ £1,005.00 and Lumagen VisionDVI @ £815.00.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  7. MikePaonessa

    MikePaonessa
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    Jo, thanks for the comments.

    "The 433HDE being 'NTSC' Progressive compatible only is an obvious restriction when your trying to improve your 576i(50) SKY signal - unless your happy Frame Rate Converting the Interlaced 50Hz signal to a Progressive 60Hz signal."

    Forgive my ignorance but how do I frame rate convert and with the restrictions you mentioned am I going to get any benefit from a scaler?

    Cheers

    Mike
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    You would FRC by getting the scaler to output a 50Hz inpu signal at 60Hz. You would still benefit from the superior de-interlacing, the colour signal processing, detail enhancement and noise removal of the scaler. You would add in a 50-60 frc judder....but if this is done well you will probably never notice it unless you sit watching Bloomberg all day....

    Gordon
     
  9. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    MikePaonessa

    What most folk call a 'Scaler' has evolved over the past few years into a pretty sophisticated 'Video Processor' - these units do more than just re sizing your sources they (as Gordon suggests) carry out any number of automatic and user adjustable functions to enable you to get a 'best match' between your Source and Display.

    The number of functions, degree of user adjustment and quality of each process varies from unit to unit - which is why one 'scaler' may be £150.00 whilst another is £2.3K.

    The Media Box in your TV system has a YUV 'Component' Input that's compatible with 576i(50Hz) 'PAL' and 480i(60Hz), 480P(60Hz), 720P(60Hz) and 1080i(60Hz) 'NTSC' signals.

    Your SKY Digibox Outputs a 576i(50) signal so running your SKY signal via a 'Video Processor' and keeping it at its native refresh rate of 50Hz limits you to colour, contrast, overscan, sharpness etc 'video' function adjustments within the Video Processor and letting the Media Box continue to undertake the required 'Deinterlacing' and scaling to fit the signal to your 1024x768 pixel array.

    The second option is to use the Video Processor to convert the 576i(50) Interlaced signal to a 720P(60) Progressive signal and limit the Media Box to resizing 720 lines to 768 lines - as Gordon suggests Frame Rate Converting a 50Hz signal to a 60Hz signal sounds (for some) a step too far and likely to introduce more problems than it resolves; in practice we find with a decent Video Processor it works very well.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS I see Gordon's being watching his 'Stocks' portfolio on Bloomberg again - these ISF Multi millionaires do have an easy life :)
     
  10. MikePaonessa

    MikePaonessa
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    Jo,

    "The second option is to use the Video Processor to convert the 576i(50) Interlaced signal to a 720P(60) Progressive signal and limit the Media Box to resizing 720 lines to 768 lines - as Gordon suggests Frame Rate Converting a 50Hz signal to a 60Hz signal sounds (for some) a step too far and likely to introduce more problems than it resolves; in practice we find with a decent Video Processor it works very well."


    How do you get the scaler to frame rate convert? Is it usually a setting within the scaler?

    Also;

    Based on my dvd,sky and plasma receiver conections and the usual scaler one's I'm looking at;

    Scart from Sky to SVHS on scaler.
    Component from DVD into scaler.
    Then component out of the scaler to plasma box.

    I have a 15 pin mini sub input at the front of the plasma box but don't really want to use that as it'll look messy.

    Can you get RGB or Dvi (out from the scaler) to component (into the Plasma box) cables?

    Cheers for your help so far.
     
  11. David PluggedIn

    David PluggedIn
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  12. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    MikePaonessa

    Frame Rate Conversion:
    If we consider the Lumagen VisionDVI for a minute then setting up Frame Rate Conversion is a simple menu setting adjustment and can be done 'on screen' using the units menu overlay on the video signal.

    Connectivity:
    Again lets stick with the VisionDVI for simplicity.

    SKY to Lumagen (Input 03+05) - SCART to 4RCA cable for RGB+Composite sync In.

    DVD to Lumagen (Input 04) - 3RCA to 3RCA for YUV In.

    Lumagen to TV Media Box - DVI to HD15 Adapter + HD15 to 3RCA cable for YUV Out.

    Alternatively you can specify the Lumagen with Optional BNC Analogue outputs and use a set of 3BNC to 3RCA cables to the Media Box.

    The Lumagen DVI socket is DVI-I so it outputs Digital or Analogue signals.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  13. Robert Hill

    Robert Hill
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    Attn David

    Hmm. Thanks for that - and now I'm aware of it....I'm going to be aware of it!

    Acc to your website, your reg address is Bollington, and I'm in the Wirral. Do you fittings? (Makes it sound like you have a clothes shop!..)
     

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