The Ultra HD Alliance talks 4K, HDR and the future of television

Ellisdj

Well-known Member
The optimist in me thinks the future is exciting with these tech developments
The pessimist cant help but think HDR is "A" Another way to try and sell new TV's to people - it does seem like this
"B" Is having a correct coloured blue sky, or green tree or some extra detail in the moon going to be enough for the average Joe to want to invest more money when their already very bright 1080p LED is going strong.

Thanks for the interview :smashin:
 

google

Distinguished Member
I wonder if we will be told if the current crop of HDR TV's meet the criteria when standards come out? Will a HDR badge be awarded retrospectively? It will be a bit difficult to know if it's worth 'upgrading' from the non HDR badged to the HDR badged otherwise.
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
My assumption is that the UHDA certification will apply to new TVs going forward (i.e. next year's models) rather than being awarded retrospectively. The market for Full HD TVs is saturated and increased resolution won't necessarily be enough to get people to upgrade, hence all the other features. The push to improve standards and deliver a superior picture performance might be driven by economic necessity but it does mean that we as enthusiasts will enjoy a better viewing experience as a result.
 

Ellisdj

Well-known Member
Its an interesting one -- is HDR a genuine improvement to stay or a quick fix for a couple of years Until Avatar 2 and 3 come out and they can flog us 4K HDR HFR 3D as the next big thing :)
 

MikeTVMikeTV

Well-known Member
Thanks for putting the interview up, but is it just me or does he actually just talk around in circles? and pretty much the only thing he does say is that they are going to release a specification that TVs have to meet at CES to qualify for the UHDA HDR approved logo??

It is all really (in my opinion) a lot of hot air being wafted around.

We've already seen from the current crop of "HDR Ready" TVs that peak brightness ranges from 30% to 10% of the whole screen so it doesnt really matter how bright the whole panel can get if it can't get anywhere close to the peak brightness number.

And as the Guy says you only really get this in the middle of the brightness range, as with the colour gamut, you get washout of blacks and bleeding on whites.

I seriously doubt the specs required will be anywhere near enough as they want HDR to take off and more TVs to be sold, yet they cant have TVs with full backlights with 1000 dimmable zones and a 1000 nit peak brightness over 50% of the screen, proper 10 bit panels and 100% of DCI coverage, it would exclude too many people from buying as the price would be too high.

The only real choice for a true HDR experience is going to be better uniformed and brighter OLED TVs.

Obviously thats just my take on it.
 

1080 jawbreaker

Well-known Member
hope fox don't dnr the crap out there catalogue titles. Predator for example. HDR wax, no thanks
 

vism

Well-known Member
Really good read Steve, thanks.

Still looks like far too many people don't understand HDR and the alliance has to be a good move from the industry.
 
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Steve Withers

Reviewer
hope fox don't dnr the crap out there catalogue titles. Predator for example. HDR wax, no thanks
I think quality of transfers has improved exponentially over the last few years and some of the UHD HDR demos I've seen have been awesome, so I wouldn't worry about a (more) plastic Arnold.
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
Its an interesting one -- is HDR a genuine improvement to stay or a quick fix for a couple of years Until Avatar 2 and 3 come out and they can flog us 4K HDR HFR 3D as the next big thing :)
What is perhaps more interesting is how the cinemas respond to all this because if we're getting UHD/HDR/DCI/10-bit at home they'll need to up their game!
 

vism

Well-known Member
To 12 bit rec2020 :D:D:D
 

vism

Well-known Member
Serious point though. If you want to represent an alien landscape, what better way to do it than by using colours that are rarely seen in real life.
 

vism

Well-known Member
I believe the Philips and BBC HDR are the same, I read that it was a joint proposal.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
What is perhaps more interesting is how the cinemas respond to all this because if we're getting UHD/HDR/DCI/10-bit at home they'll need to up their game!

Cinema standards chasing home standards, rather than the other way around?

Great for new material.

Worrying for older, film-based material.

I'm hearing a lot of 'it has to be done sensitively', and 'it can be done badly', which has never been the case before - you just put as much of the film on the digital format as that format's specs would allow. The implication is we're looking at somehow 'enhancing' the film. If that weren't the case, no one would be talking about being careful or sensitive.

Interesting times.

Steve W
 
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stevos

Distinguished Member
I am slightly concerned about the projector comment, if they haven't even started thinking about it yet, it would indicate that the manufacturers are not that close to releasing projectors that can support the full format. If they were, they would be pushing for certification of them also.

Have we hit a wall in what home projectors can achieve using the current tech.
 

mikelj

Well-known Member
Thanks for putting the interview up, but is it just me or does he actually just talk around in circles? and pretty much the only thing he does say is that they are going to release a specification that TVs have to meet at CES to qualify for the UHDA HDR approved logo??

It is all really (in my opinion) a lot of hot air being wafted around.

We've already seen from the current crop of "HDR Ready" TVs that peak brightness ranges from 30% to 10% of the whole screen so it doesnt really matter how bright the whole panel can get if it can't get anywhere close to the peak brightness number.

And as the Guy says you only really get this in the middle of the brightness range, as with the colour gamut, you get washout of blacks and bleeding on whites.

I seriously doubt the specs required will be anywhere near enough as they want HDR to take off and more TVs to be sold, yet they cant have TVs with full backlights with 1000 dimmable zones and a 1000 nit peak brightness over 50% of the screen, proper 10 bit panels and 100% of DCI coverage, it would exclude too many people from buying as the price would be too high.

The only real choice for a true HDR experience is going to be better uniformed and brighter OLED TVs.

Obviously thats just my take on it.

Perhaps it's my lack of comprehension, but I am the only person who's thinking that the UHDA referring to HDR as greater brightness doesn't help clarify matters. Ok, black's black, coupled with a greater brightness (and wider colour gamut/greater bit depth) gives you greater graduations/steps of colour in between, but surely it's dynamic range we're talking about. What's the point in certifying a TV capable of hitting the peak HDR brightness requirements, if can't reproduce blacks? Is this being glossed over, since the vast majority of HDR TVs are currently LEDs and will remain that way for some time/permanently?
 

stevos

Distinguished Member
Perhaps it's my lack of comprehension, but I am the only person who's thinking that the UHDA referring to HDR as greater brightness doesn't help clarify matters. Ok, black's black, coupled with a greater brightness (and wider colour gamut/greater bit depth) gives you greater graduations/steps of colour in between, but surely it's dynamic range we're talking about. What's the point in certifying a TV capable of hitting the peak HDR brightness requirements, if can't reproduce blacks? Is this being glossed over, since the vast majority of HDR TVs are currently LEDs and will remain that way for some time/permanently?

This is a good point actually, we already have people thinking that putting their screen on shop mode is an improved image because its brighter. We don't need the industry preaching the same misunderstanding.
 

1080 jawbreaker

Well-known Member
I think quality of transfers has improved exponentially over the last few years and some of the UHD HDR demos I've seen have been awesome, so I wouldn't worry about a (more) plastic Arnold.

hopefully they will have to go back to the original negative to extract the DR.
 

Steve Withers

Reviewer
Worrying for older, film-based material.
Not really, 35mm has just as much resolution, a wider colour space and a bigger dynamic range than any current digital format.
 

vism

Well-known Member
Steve, could you confirm something on that?

I read that film could do the same colour range as the human eye, is that true?
 

RickyDeg

Well-known Member
Its an interesting one -- is HDR a genuine improvement to stay or a quick fix for a couple of years Until Avatar 2 and 3 come out and they can flog us 4K HDR HFR 3D as the next big thing :)

You forgot to include Avatar 4 ;) lol j/k
 

soupdragon

Distinguished Member
Perhaps it's my lack of comprehension, but I am the only person who's thinking that the UHDA referring to HDR as greater brightness doesn't help clarify matters. Ok, black's black, coupled with a greater brightness (and wider colour gamut/greater bit depth) gives you greater graduations/steps of colour in between, but surely it's dynamic range we're talking about. What's the point in certifying a TV capable of hitting the peak HDR brightness requirements, if can't reproduce blacks? Is this being glossed over, since the vast majority of HDR TVs are currently LEDs and will remain that way for some time/permanently?
I don't think tv's that have poor contrast will get the certification though. The article clearly says contrast is part of the spec. Overall black floor isn't mentioned so ability to reproduce blacks will be down to the consumer and their choice of display they want to purchase. As long as each tv is certified correctly, then you will still get TV's that are all capable of showing the new standards but still have their own differences (eg, OLED, LED)

As always, even with the new standards (which will be minimum standards) there will be lots of TV's to buy, some will be better than others.
 

Roohster

Distinguished Member
How many acronyms can they cram into one interview? :p
"I'd like a UHD4kOLEDHDRHDCP2.2HDMI260FPS1000NITTV as shown at the IFA & CES and approved by UHDA and FAME please."

Apart from that, an interesting read. At least everyone seems to be communicating.
 
Well, thanks for the interview but after reading through this long list of open ended rambling answers we still seem a fair way off from having a hard and fast set of benchmarks to guide manufacturers. When he says by CES they should be in a position to communicate to consumers and retail partners I'm not exactly filled with confidence.
Seems like they've realised the technology to really achieve what they set out to do is not possible for displays at anything like affordable prices. Now it sounds as if they're back pedalling towards a compromised set of standards. The HDR experience we end up getting might be a long way short of what was originally intended. For the first few years at least.
 

Paul Hayward

Active Member
Does anyone know if 10 bit colour is being packaged with HDR? It would mean that pj's without HDR capability would not benefit from UHD 10 bit colour on the new UHD blu-ray even though they could accept a 10 bit colour signal.
 

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