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The ultimate CRT-based PAL TV?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by raZorfish, Jan 29, 2003.

  1. raZorfish

    raZorfish
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    JVC's last widescreen wonder, the JVC HV-32D25 model, certainly doesn't look too attractive from appearance does it, that is, unless you are shallow Hal! Because its inner beauty truly shines:
    • a very fine shadow mask dot pitch of only 0.59 mm (as you likely are aware of it's actually a HDTV Toshiba 16:9 tube!)
    • 1250i@75Hz (which implies that the horizontal scanning frequency is an awesome 46.875 kHz (which is a new record for the CRT-TV in Europa?! As many of you know, the normal is 31.25 kHz, even for 100 Hz TVs!)
    • 625p@50(?)Hz (progressive scan mode)
    • PAL progressive component input!? (currently Panasonic's TX-32PH40 is the only TV that has been verified to support PAL progressive component input, so has anyone actually verified this using one of the recently PAL progressive capable DVD players?)
    • (2 tuners for PAP or Mosaic (1 moving picture + 11 still pictures))
    • (Dolby Digital decoder built-in)
    If JVC has done their digital signal processing right, such an impressive hardware spec should definitely provide some amazing picture quality compared to the flagship models of current competitors in the high-end CRT-based TV marked (in Europe that is). Even the price tag (below 1500 pounds?) is surprisingly low given the high quality features of this set.

    Although I must admit that the above information should be enough to get most of us running to the store to check out the picture quality in real life, the 46.875 kHz design of this TV really raises the following intriguing question:

    Perhaps the progressive scan of this TV is 625p@75Hz (=46.875 kHz) instead of the standard 625p@50Hz (=31.25 kHz)?

    If so, then this would be the ultimate CRT-based PAL TV (according to Panasonic's vision for PAL TV anyway). Would be very interesting to know the answer to this question. Does anyone know?

    If the answer is NO, then what a waste of such a capable CRT, don't you think? Then we can only hope that someone else (Panasonic?) will take the opportunity in the near future to put this tube spec to good use (i.e. to provide us with prog scan @75Hz). Any thoughts anyone?


    Regards
    raZorfish
    :)
     
  2. LV426

    LV426
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    It would be (and probably will be) a pity if (when) the theoretical high specification of this TV are accompanied by the fairly typical poor setup and/or quality control that most CRT TVs 'enjoy'. The best tube and specification in the world can easily be spoilt (and probably will be) by

    1: An inadequate power supply resulting in 'bouncing' of the picture with changes in brightness
    2: Poor geometry - tilt, bend, and other distortion
    3: Poor convergence - coloured edges around things especially in the corners (but possibly all over)
    etc.....
     
  3. drummerboy

    drummerboy
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    raZorfish, I certainly hope the JVC is as good as it sounds, but unfortunately, from experience over the last six months, I tend to agree with nigel.
    Nice to be wrong tho' especially as I'm still looking for a set.
     
  4. Jase

    Jase
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    raZorfish

    Horizontal Frequency is increased to 45hz (as mentioned in the JVC catalogue). Pal playback is 1250i @75hz, NTSC is 1500i @60hz.

    Nigel

    The power supply on this TV is excellent, there is no bounce when the image changes in brightness. Geometry is superb as well, actually its smack on and I don´t need to adjust it. Convergence is also excellent. I spent a few hours going through various tests with AVIA.

    The only criticism of my tv is that the top right hand corner of the screen has a very slight pink tint to it when displaying a white image. The rest of the screen is ok.

    Still can´t confirm whether it accepts a PAL Progressive signal as my dvd player is only NTSC Progressive. The manual states the TV will though. It also has its own Progressive Scan mode (Movie Theatre Mode) which works very well for NTSC. It does a fine job on PAL sources as well but not to the extent as when the source is NTSC (used both R1 & R2 Gladiator to test it).

    The Super DigiPure circuit increases the resolution should you want to use it or you can leave it off and just have an unprocessed picture.

    All in all its a superb TV, well worth looking at.:)
     
  5. raZorfish

    raZorfish
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    Jase

    Thank you for your comments. The 45 kHz value that is mentioned in the manual must be refering to the NTSC signal though. For PAL it is as previously stated 46.875 kHz.

    The math is given below, although this can also be verified from JVC's own technology pages on DIST (I'll see if I can find the link when I get home from work, OK).


    NTSC 1500i@60Hz: 0.5*1500*60 Hz = 45 000 Hz
    PAL 1250i@75Hz: 0.5*1250*75 Hz = 46 875 Hz

    PAL 625p@50Hz: 625*50 Hz = 31 250 Hz
    PAL 625p@75Hz: 625*75 Hz = 46 875 Hz

    q.e.d.

    So this is actually good news, right :)


    raZorfish
     
  6. Jase

    Jase
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    Certainly good news.:)

    The JVC catalogue doesn´t mention specifically whether the Horizontal Frequency is for PAL or NTSC. Just says that "during the Interlaced to Progressive conversion the Horizontal Frequency is increased from 15khz to 45khz".

    Be interested to read more if you can post that link to the D.I.S.T technology.:)
     
  7. regis

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    Hi Jase,

    You probably know that I'm also interested in that set. Found the following on JVC belgian site. Happy reading.

    http://www.jvc-europe.com/JvcCons/Press/Bel/dist.html

    (didn't checked the content yet, but this is more detailled than anything I saw before).

    Régis.
     
  8. LV426

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    Oh, yes, I forgot that one.

    4: Coloured staining (esp in the corners) due to inaccurate aiming of the electron guns at the shadow mask and phosphors, and/or susceptibility to external magnetic fields.

    However, your other comments are reassuring. Let's hope that the whole production run is similarly well set up.

    I'm still waiting for a flat panel device (probably LCD for my choice) to become available at a sensible price.
     
  9. raZorfish

    raZorfish
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    Thanks. Didn't get the chance to put up the link for Jase yesterday. The site I found is similar to the one you provided. I'll check back and if I find it to contain additional info I will post the link later (hopefully to day; the site is not easy to find and it's on my homePC).

    Nigel wrote:

    LG.Philips will be launching a 52" LCD-TV later this year and Samsung a 54" model. The indicated prices are around that of 50" plasma displays.

    It will be interesting to see what technology will take the lead, although LCD already have the edge on some issues like life time and native resolution. Both of the above models have a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 (i.e. that of HDTVi). I will post a link to an interesting review of what's coming if you guys are interested (later to night as well).


    raZorfish
     
  10. raZorfish

    raZorfish
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    Here is the link on DIST technology that I promised. It's in german I'm afraid. Still, this german site is excellent!

    At least the picture reveals the numbers involved in the DIST process.

    http://www.loehneysen.de/archiv/distgross.html

    I noticed that the link that regis provided said 45 kHz for 1250i/75Hz, which is definitely wrong. The germans get it right though.


    raZorfish
     
  11. Tetsuo

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    As you may have read in one of the earlier threads on this TV, Elkjøp is stocking this item in Norway. So if you live near an Elkjøp store, you should go and check it out.

    And if you ever are in the Bergen area, you are welcome to view my set :)

    I have still not gotten my hands on a progressive scan DVD player. But as I am inbetween jobs at the moment, I'll have to wait before buying one. But obviously I'm still very interested in knowing if the set accepts Pal progressive input.
     
  12. raZorfish

    raZorfish
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    Thanks for the tip Tetsuo. I do plan to visit Elkjøp when I can find the time. It's amazing though how much information you can dig up in advance by plugging into this forum.

    I do visit Bergen from time to time on business trips, so perhaps I'll take you up on the offer. Most kind of you.


    Regards
    raZorfish
     
  13. Jase

    Jase
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    Thanks for the links guys!:)
     
  14. evans

    evans
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    Tetsuo

    Sorry to bug you but your one of the only ones who has got one of these sets and in my country the set is due shortly hopefully next week.

    what do you thing of the picture quality when you watch the dvd's? Also does it have that almost cinema picture quality? Some say the pixel plus models sometimes have a 3-dimensional look

    any comments appreciated

    also how much did you pay for it. if you dont mind me asking

    thanks
     
  15. GaryB

    GaryB
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    I have seen it and it is excellent on DVD. If you are in the UK, it will be released through selected dealers next week.
     
  16. regis

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    Does anyone has an idea about availability in Belgium ??

    Régis.
     
  17. Tetsuo

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    I think the picture quality of the set is amazing. If it wasn't I probably wouldn't have bought the set now would I ;)

    Since the picture is as crisp as it is, the TV tends to be picky about what signal it is fed. A bad aerial signal looks really awfull, while a DVD signal looks very nice. I do actually get a kind of 3d feeling, as it sometimes looks like a window more than a telly...

    As to what I paid, it is no secret. It had a suggested retail price of 19.000 NOK. But I ended up paying 17.000 for it. Converted to pounds, that is £1700, and I bought it for £1550. The norwegian krone is very storng at the moment. So normaly the prices would be 15% lower.

    I talked to this service guy at a TV store in Norway. He had bought one, and had paid 13.500 NOK. As he got it straight from JVC. That would be around £1250.

    There are lots more info about this set in other threads on this forum. Check out this one:


    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56033&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
     

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