seb said:
Ethics, interesting however, the point is we can change those 'liberties' which the terrorists are exploiting without having to give up our cars or the right to travel by underground; th eonly people whose liberties have to be restricted are terrorists and terrorist suspects.
No - it affects the liberties of EVERYONE in this country ... its just that for the majority of people they won't notice - the problem lies in the fact that we forget to look at the long term picture. While it may appear to be a nice fluffy government in power at the moment ( lets forget about internationally illegal wars and the lies to attempt to justify, lets forget about innocent men being shot in the head multiple times etc etc etc )
What happens if in the future those 'special powers' to avoid citizens liberties happen to conflict with your, or your childrens interests ?
Have you considered the fact that:
a) governments change
b) society changes
c) communication changes
- consider the way we worked, lived and played 20 years ago ... no internet ( for the public anyway ), mobile phones, voice over IP, networked consoles and PC's playing massive games all over the world.
Ebay, internet porn, video streaming, pod casts etc etc.
- now consider the possible changes over the next 20 to 30 years ...
.... and consider the implications of the 'if you do nothing wrong' attitude. How many people are copying films from friends, burning DVD's, music etc.
Thats against the law .... so those that say 'if you do nothing wrong' had better be truely 'innocent' if they want to cling to that statement to protect them.
seb said:
It is their freedom of movement, access to this country or communications which need be compromised. How many of us have actually been restricted over the last 8 weeks in the war against terror in the UK, I doubt any of us have had contact with the security forces. Those terrorist syspects held and then released from Belmarsh, were strongly suspected or indeed convicted in their own countries of terrorist involvement. Would I be happy to restrict their right to enter this country, absolutely, there should be no automatic right to enter the UK, and they were free to leave.
You fail to get the bigger picture - these law changes can affect ANYONE.
They will be on the books not just for now ... but for the future.
seb said:
The problem with human rights activists is that they have lost perspective, they have gorgotten that human rights are their to protect and if they fail to do that as they did on 7/7, then they need to be amended. I don't share the view that as only 50 or so died (not sure how you got 37?) it doesn't matter, all innocent human life matters and especially when we can do something about it, these weren't accidents on the roads or illnesses.
50 or 37, its still less than even the number of people that died in DIY accidents.
I am not a human rights activist .... neither am I at war with anyone.
Some relegious nutcases have differening opinions to me and similar minded people, and on rare occastions they manage to commit acts of murder justified by their twisted logic. These murders are few and far between.
I try to put this into perspective on how I judge it as a risk to my life ... and consider that there are 80 to 90 fatal shootings each year, and about 10,000 incidents envolving guns.
There is far more chance that I will have a fatal car accident on my way to and from work than some fruit loop blowing me up.
Its just that it 'sounds' much more 'terrifiying', espcially with all the gory pictures on the telly of the 'carnage' of a bomb blast.
It is extremenly niave to consider that the government gives a damn about the individual - or that they will never abuse powers if its convienent to do so - especially indefinately. I have a very 'clear perspective' on the situation. In the relative scale of things these nutters are a drop in the ocean, and while they should be dealt with, they should be dealt with in proportion to thier actual significance to the lives of EVERY citizen of this country and in proportion to the rights of EVERY citizen - rather than overblown, reactionary and completely out of proportion responses that affect us and our children for years to come. I have lived through many bombings, and I don't rememebr the far more direct and real trheat posed by the IRA affecting the general public anywhere near the same way.
There were bombs going off in Manchester, London etc .... an we didn't have this kind of 'hysterical' reaction.