The state of modern TV ownership (mini-rant)

Mkm

Active Member
Apologies, this is likely an old rant, I'm sure a lot of these points, if not all, have been covered before.

I just watched Vincent's vid on recommended settings for the PS5 when paired up with an LG OLED CX (I have a C9 myself), and I'm looking at the 'debate' in the comments, and I just despair at the state of things for the general consumer these days.

With the troubled roll out of HDMI 2.1 fresh in my mind, and myself having to research the various gotchas in the settings that have to be done on the new consoles and the displays they're hooked up to, it just boggles me that all this sh*t is somehow still acceptable in 2020. I think it goes largely unnoticed with the general public because they'll be completely ignorant of all this; the numerous HDMI versions, data bandwidths, their colour depth support, HDCP versions, colour range/black level brackets, refresh rates, VRR, etc.

Somehow it's just fine that these iterative yearly releases come out and a TV that's less than a couple of years old can be left in the dust support wise.

I know my extended family wouldn't have a ******* clue if I mentioned any of these terms to them. They'd plug in their shiny new bit of family gaming and just expect it to work on their TV which has a HDMI socket on it. And really, why shouldn't it? I held off upgrading the living room TV for a looooooooong time, because to my eyes, the current 'standards' are utterly transient, and it doesn't feel terribly cynical to say that the market has been largely serving as unknowing beta testers for the last decade.

As an AV fan, I lap this up, I enjoy seeing progress, reading the news and reviews, and learning how to get the best out of my gear, and what upgrades I should plan for. We're living in great times tech wise, but man, the more you know... I'm nearing 50, and it's probably fair to say that maybe there's always been this element to AV, Trinitron displays, RGB SCART, S-VHS, 60hz support, anamorphic modes, but it really feels like there's a sh*tton more variables to deal with now, and it's the consumer that gets the shaft if they don't keep up.

It feels like the industry needs some kind of watchdog to give it a very overdue kick up the arse.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
This is how the industry has always been for years upon years.

Offer the least possible to unsuspecting customers for the most money possible using clever marketing, brand recognition and loyalty. It's how they make astronomical amounts of money and ensure users continue to upgrade every year.

Sadly customers need to have some form of autonomy and use their brains. Do some research before buying something expensive, understand your needs and wants and give your money to the company which fulfils the most of them.

I can't blame Sony, Panasonic, Vizio, JVC, LG.. whoever decides to gimp whatever device, when customers are happy to give them their cash.

We live in a free-market where people can vote with their wallets but if they want to blindly give their money to people without researching purchases sufficiently enough, then they only have themselves to blame.


I've seen one user on the forum buy a PS5 for 1080p TV. Let people do what they want and be happy or unhappy with subsequent purchasing decisions as they want IMO.
 

Michael7877

Active Member
It really is unacceptable and annoying.
For 10 years I paid almost no attention to Video products. I was/still am more into audio products. But when it was time for me to get a TV (last christmas) I did some catch up research and settled on a Sony A8G. Mostly watch tv shows and movies, do some light gaming.
I had to research video cards and their performance/expected performance in the next couple years, HDMI standards, everything related to HDR (which is new in the last 10 years). It was a lot of work, and I'm tech oriented. Good information is hard to come by because of marketing materials confusing people who want to be helpful and the marketing materials themselves being needlessly confusing and sometimes misleading - not always because of disingenuous intentions.

Like LED TVs. I thought they were what is now called micro-LED when I came across the term. Nope! It's just an LCD TV with LED backlight. How the hell did that happen?!?!? We didn't call them CFL TVs when LCDs were backlit with them. Why didn't we? Because that would just be retarded.
 

next010

Distinguished Member
Sony shares quite a bit of the blame here with the PS5.

1 - they didn't support all HDMI 2.1 features out of the box (what were their engineers doing all this time), they could have gotten HDMI 2.1 TV's from LG in 2019.

2 - they still have not fixed the selecting the wrong RGB range on the LG's TV's an issue that was present on the PS4 for the past 7 years so that bled over to the PS5.

3 - they didn't do compatibility testing with various Samsung 4K 120hz capable TV's and the PS5 handle 120hz output in a very odd way, also completely ignores PC 120H/144Hz displays (a trivial thing to support).

4 - some bright spark at Sony thought it a good idea to force HDR on all the time despite the negative response this had on both the AppleTV/FireTV who added manual/adaptive modes for HDR.

It's clear that part of Sonys engineering team are not users of their own products or very familiar with the TV market, I wouldnt be surprised if they have only Sony TV's in their QA department.
 

Michael7877

Active Member
Sony shares quite a bit of the blame here with the PS5.

1 - they didn't support all HDMI 2.1 features out of the box (what were their engineers doing all this time), they could have gotten HDMI 2.1 TV's from LG in 2019.

2 - they still have not fixed the selecting the wrong RGB range on the LG's TV's an issue that was present on the PS4 for the past 7 years so that bled over to the PS5.

3 - they didn't do compatibility testing with various Samsung 4K 120hz capable TV's and the PS5 handle 120hz output in a very odd way, also completely ignores PC 120H/144Hz displays (a trivial thing to support).

4 - some bright spark at Sony thought it a good idea to force HDR on all the time despite the negative response this had on both the AppleTV/FireTV who added manual/adaptive modes for HDR.

It's clear that part of Sonys engineering team are not users of their own products or very familiar with the TV market, I wouldnt be surprised if they have only Sony TV's in their QA department.


1.) I'm not sure. I expected a flawless implementation. You wouldn't think it'd be so hard to do that they didn't get it done with all the time they had...

2.) Is there a manual fix for it in the TV's menu?

3.) How does it handle it in a weird way? I read somewhere in passing that HDR doesn't work at 120hz on Sony TVs. My A8G does HDR at 120hz, but unfortunately only 8 bit colour. It would suck for HDR video, but it's for games, so it isn't the end of the world. Especially with most Sony TVs having an excellent (and latency free) "Smooth Gradation" function which blends colours together nicely - gets rid of banding while keeping detail (it's not attached to an MPEG noise filter or anything else to diminish quality)

4.) I hate when this is done. My Panasonic UB820 by default I think makes all of Netflix into Dolby Vision, and sends SDR content that way. It can be disabled, which I've done because HDR TVs do tonemapping, and usually somewhere around 100-200 nits the TV starts putting out less brightness than the signal calls for, (to fit for example 1000 nits into 700 nits). The SDR seems to be sent with peak white of SDR on HDR signal at around 250 nits, so the brightest parts of the image are softened in a way - the spacing between steps is smaller at the top of the brightness range than the bottom. It absolutely RUINS SDR content, especially on good TVs
 

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