The rise of socialism

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today I think there are only five countries that still have communism
And it's likely with state ownership that they also practice state capitalism
 
People should stop blaming other people and generations and get on with life.

Life is about choices some people make better ones than others.

Make changes if you are not happy with your current situation.
 
People should stop blaming other people and generations and get on with life.

Life is about choices some people make better ones than others.

Make changes if you are not happy with your current situation.

If life was only about making choices and only that simple.

Some people believe in destiny and destiny is about the choices made in life. Again that is easy to say but the reality is different.

I think @Toko Black makes a good point - there are a multitude of other factors in life, so that making choices and decisions are only a small proportion of what goes on as life progresses to its inevitable conclusion.
 
People should stop blaming other people and generations and get on with life.

Life is about choices some people make better ones than others.

Make changes if you are not happy with your current situation.

Sure you can make changes, but that doesn't mean new choices will necessarily lead to changes you think will make your life better. We do not operate in a vacuum, choices are made collectively through society. All you can do in life, is wing it and hope for the best.
 
If life was only about making choices and only that simple.

Some people believe in destiny and destiny is about the choices made in life. Again that is easy to say but the reality is different.

I think @Toko Black makes a good point - there are a multitude of other factors in life, so that making choices and decisions are only a small proportion of what goes on as life progresses to its inevitable conclusion.
Ofcourse here are other factors in life, shit happens. But then there are others choices to be made. Nobody ever said they a nice or fun choices, nevertheless every day we make them, and deal with the consequences. Sometimes expected, sometimes unexpected. No good whinging about it as it is your life. But sure, that is a choice as well. Not one that I would choose though.
 
Ofcourse here are other factors in life, sh*t happens. But then there are others choices to be made. Nobody ever said they a nice or fun choices, nevertheless every day we make them, and deal with the consequences. Sometimes expected, sometimes unexpected. No good whinging about it as it is your life. But sure, that is a choice as well. Not one that I would choose though.

So what you are saying is that you have had to face all the same tough choices, trials and challeges that everyone else has to yet come out of it all doing pretty well for yourself and therefore if only people followed your example, they would all be doing pretty well for themselves ?

So you were born into a poor, rough family that physically and sexually abused you.
When you were 10, your father died and you were left to take care of your disabled mother and 4 younger siblings.
You were physically bullied because of your asthma, your lack of friends and your lack of self confidence.
When you were 17, you fell for a girl who told you she was on birth control, but wasn't and ended up getting pregnant.
There was little employment or opertunities where you lived, you somehow had to balance having your disabled mother cared for, your partner who refused to leave the area because she needed help and support from friends and family looking after your child.
You struggled and found that because of your ethnic background and religion, some employers and businesses were overtly or subtly prejudiced against you which made it even harder to find work.
Then you found that your dream of attending university to better your opertunities was going to cost you £9,000 a year on top of all the money you need to support your partner and child, your disabled mother and your siblings.
Out of the 3 jobs you had to hold down just to cover basic living expenses, you had to find enough to save for a deposit before being able to get a mortage on a property in a rough and high crime area away from the schools and jobs you worked and your partner refused to accept.
Suddenly the dream fairy came down with her magic wand and said "it's just a choice" and POOOF you were doing okay and lived happily ever after, with plenty of time to spend telling others that their problems are just whinging and they can simply choose.
 
Sounds like a Charles Dickens novel :)
Then you found that your dream of attending university to better your opertunities was going to cost you £9,000 a year
That's not how Student loans work and you know it, or I hope you do.:facepalm:
 
Ofcourse here are other factors in life, sh*t happens. But then there are others choices to be made. Nobody ever said they a nice or fun choices, nevertheless every day we make them, and deal with the consequences. Sometimes expected, sometimes unexpected. No good whinging about it as it is your life. But sure, that is a choice as well. Not one that I would choose though.

There are certain things beyond our control and we have to make the best of it. Choices only take you so far, as often the choices of others interact with yours and you have no idea of what the consequences will be.
 
So what you are saying is that you have had to face all the same tough choices, trials and challeges that everyone else has to yet come out of it all doing pretty well for yourself and therefore if only people followed your example, they would all be doing pretty well for themselves ?
Nope, not at all. We all make our own choice, and we all have our own crosses. I never said nor suggested that. But if that is what you choose to take from it, then so be it. That is totally down to you.

So you were born into a poor, rough family that physically and sexually abused you.
When you were 10, your father died and you were left to take care of your disabled mother and 4 younger siblings.
Nope I was not exactly, but had other shit to deal with.

You were physically bullied because of your asthma, your lack of friends and your lack of self confidence.
Not because of asthma, but for different reasons. Kids bully unfortunately, they will find something. And we are all lonely at times, you can even be lonely when you have a lot of friends ;)

When you were 17, you fell for a girl who told you she was on birth control, but wasn't and ended up getting pregnant.
I choose to use Durex, many more reasons than just birth control ;)

There was little employment or opertunities where you lived, you somehow had to balance having your disabled mother cared for, your partner who refused to leave the area because she needed help and support from friends and family looking after your child.
Still a choice isn't it? You could have chosen not to care for your disabled mother...When did I say the choices we make are easy?

You struggled and found that because of your ethnic background and religion, some employers and businesses were overtly or subtly prejudiced against you which made it even harder to find work.
I can full heartedly say that I have directly experienced that, again an obstacle thrown in our way and choose what to do next.

Then you found that your dream of attending university to better your opertunities was going to cost you £9,000 a year on top of all the money you need to support your partner and child, your disabled mother and your siblings.
More choices, now do you take that loan that is provided or not? Some of us when to university and did have two or three jobs as well. More choices.

Out of the 3 jobs you had to hold down just to cover basic living expenses, you had to find enough to save for a deposit before being able to get a mortage on a property in a rough and high crime area away from the schools and jobs you worked and your partner refused to accept.
Oh gosh yes, Hayes in Middlesex a right shit hole that was when I moved to the UK. First visit to the pub there was police everywhere. Coming back to the flat, massive row next door. Then found out that my credit rating was shit through association of the previous tenant. I choose to stay a bit longer and save up and see what happens. I could have chosen to get out. Others may choose differently again.

Suddenly the dream fairy came down with her magic wand and said "it's just a choice" and POOOF you were doing okay and lived happily ever after, with plenty of time to spend telling others that their problems are just whinging and they can simply choose.
Well you certainly come across like a victim. As long as you don't get that your destiny is what you make it, and that choices have consequences, and that you can change your own direction, then you'd be looking and waiting for that fairy a long time. Heck perhaps even choose to play the lottery, someone has to win right?

Or get of your backside and accept that your choices are your own both good and bad, take personal responsibility and move on. A little bit of tough love doesn't hurt, and its free (to do with as you like...).
 
There are certain things beyond our control and we have to make the best of it. Choices only take you so far, as often the choices of others interact with yours and you have no idea of what the consequences will be.
Agreed, and that present you with another choice to make...I never said there are no other influences, as I said shit happens...deal with it...
 
For example for now I choose to reply :), some I'm sure will be glad to hear that that won't be for long, but it isn't within their control...Well it is when you are a moderator :p And than that choice to reply will be taken away from me, totally out of my control. But then I just have to deal with that, and move on...
 
For example for now I choose to reply :), some I'm sure will be glad to hear that that won't be for long, but it isn't within their control...Well it is when you are a moderator :p And than that choice to reply will be taken away from me, totally out of my control. But then I just have to deal with that, and move on...

The ability to stand on your own two feet, be confident in yourself and your decisions, look the world in the face with family and friends around you... great stuff, and I'm with you there.

We are lucky people.

However, outlook and decision making is based on country, personality, health, upbringing and parents, financial status, society, surrounding landscape, education and a host of other factors which are beyond our control.

You made a good point that people have to deal with that and move on. The thing is if many of the above factors are against you and restrictive to development then the chances are there is no way to move on - you're stuck no matter what choices are made.
 
The ability to stand on your own two feet, be confident in yourself and your decisions, look the world in the face with family and friends around you... great stuff, and I'm with you there.

We are lucky people.

However, outlook and decision making is based on country, personality, health, upbringing and parents, financial status, society, surrounding landscape, education and a host of other factors which are beyond our control.

You made a good point that people have to deal with that and move on. The thing is if many of the above factors are against you and restrictive to development then the chances are there is no way to move on - you're stuck no matter what choices are made.
Agreeable to a point, surely there comes a point that you'd question that situation and then make a choice? Or does one choose not to question it?
 
Agreeable to a point, surely there comes a point that you'd question that situation and then make a choice? Or does one choose not to question it?

From my understanding of people who have been caught by circumstances, past and present and are unable to move on, is the questions have already been asked many times and have been blocked. Possibly due to mental strength having been drained by so many rebuttals, followed by acceptance of the situation. Trapped.
 
From my understanding of people who have been caught by circumstances, past and present and are unable to move on, is the questions have already been asked many times and have been blocked. Possibly due to mental strength having been drained by so many rebuttals, followed by acceptance of the situation. Trapped.
Fair enough better choose to give up then ;)
 
Sounds like a Charles Dickens novel :)
That's not how Student loans work and you know it, or I hope you do.:facepalm:

I should have said 'in debt' against future earnings when said earnings were great enough in this story to actually reach a point of saving for a deposit and having enough to cover a 5:1 mortgage or some such ;)

For me it seems clear the world is not a level playing field either in the genetics and abilities we are born with or the environments we are born into.
One would like to hope we as a modern western democracy would endevour to take all the practical and sensible steps to make sure that although the playing field is not level, we don't exacerbate or make it more difficult to have a fair crack at the whip.

There seems to me to be a pretty common human response at play in a lot of people when faced with the idea that they may have had it easier, better or have made things slightly worse for those that are just starting out or yet to come.
None of us in general likes to think we are to blame, nor that we are essentially not good people. Most of us like to consider the hard work, pain and suffering, sacrifices and compromises we have made in our lives was more than sufficient to pay our dues.
Very few of us want to forego or reduce the amount of rewards for that life's labour because we feel we damn well earnt it.
It is also much easier to justify spending money on fancy cars, holidays and luxuries when you can tell yourself you have already done enough by paying some tax and poping a £1 in the collection box - that people sleeping rough or having to use food banks are doing so as a result of their own fecklessness, stupidity or 'choices'.
 
Nope, not at all. We all make our own choice, and we all have our own crosses. I never said nor suggested that. But if that is what you choose to take from it, then so be it. That is totally down to you.

Still a choice isn't it? You could have chosen not to care for your disabled mother...When did I say the choices we make are easy?

Except for sociopaths, the emotionally/mentally disturbed and people on the extreme end of the lack of empathy spectrum, that would not really be considered a choice.
If we were in a hunter gatherer society and the winters were incredibly harsh etc, then maybe it would have to become a choice of survival to leave a disabled mother behind to allow the rest of the family or individual to live.
However, we don't live in that sort of society, so there is little justification to do so other than complete personal self interest on a scale considered abhorrant to most people in society.


Well you certainly come across like a victim. As long as you don't get that your destiny is what you make it, and that choices have consequences, and that you can change your own direction, then you'd be looking and waiting for that fairy a long time. Heck perhaps even choose to play the lottery, someone has to win right?

Or get of your backside and accept that your choices are your own both good and bad, take personal responsibility and move on. A little bit of tough love doesn't hurt, and its free (to do with as you like...).

The descriptions are not me.
I was brought up in a loving, well to do family, I was athletic, a county level runner, swimmer and all round athlete. I was in the top sets at school and although I had dyslexia and 'other issues' I was bright enough to still get very good grades, go to college then university and leave without any real debt or problems.
I was bullied, but certainly not once I got into my mid-teens as most people found out the hard way that I was not someone to roll over and play dead.
I have a long term disability, but because I was so athletic and bright, no one had any clue until much later in life.
I am part of the generation that has had most of the benefits of the housing boom, free or cheap further education and not having to look at retiring in my 70's.
I am not complaining on behalf of myself, but out of sympathy for the situation that many younger people are finding themselves in with less opertunities to get on both in careers and in the housing market than I or my peers did - something that is backed up by hard data in terms of real term wages, house prices, generational assets over time etc.
 
You can't understand someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

The descriptions are not me.
I was brought up in a loving, well to do family, I was athletic, a county level runner, swimmer and all round athlete. I was in the top sets at school and although I had dyslexia and 'other issues' I was bright enough to still get very good grades, go to college then university and leave without any real debt or problems.
I was bullied, but certainly not once I got into my mid-teens as most people found out the hard way that I was not someone to roll over and play dead.
I have a long term disability, but because I was so athletic and bright, no one had any clue until much later in life.
I am part of the generation that has had most of the benefits of the housing boom, free or cheap further education and not having to look at retiring in my 70's.
I am not complaining on behalf of myself, but out of sympathy for the situation that many younger people are finding themselves in with less opertunities to get on both in careers and in the housing market than I or my peers did - something that is backed up by hard data in terms of real term wages, house prices, generational assets over time etc.

I think someone else disagrees with you on that one Nabby ;)

Got to love straw mans Toko...Whatever makes you feel good and superior...
 
I think someone else disagrees with you on that one Nabby ;)

Got to love straw mans Toko...Whatever makes you feel good and superior...

You do realise that any rebuttle or example can be used without being a straw man if your argument is a carte blanche open statement to which the rebuttle or examples belong to that 'set' ?

It's like arguing that all childrens bad social behaviour is down to their parents, then claiming someone who mentions a child with a genetic brain disorder that causes them to behave in anti-social ways regardless of the parents .... is a straw man.

For what ever reason, you seem to be in denial that the spectrum of genetic, environmental and social challenges that human beings experiences are spread across are diverse and broad enough to mean that the choices and options for one individual may be dramatically different, harder or easier, less or greater than those for another.
Significantly enough in fact to mean that for some it is virtually impossible to achieve the same outcomes of life as someone else.
..... other than if you include being a sociopath, immoral criminal or other extremes that the majority of people simply are not.
 
Fair enough better choose to give up then ;)

Not me mate, I tend to rely on tenacity and look on the bright side.

I learnt many years ago that delving too deeply into certain matters leads to darkness and the blue devils will creep up and bite you in the ass.
 
Ithink we've gone far enough down that road, can we get back on topic now? Thanks...
 
The dour face of socialism.

https://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2018/02/corbyn-no-joke.html

Everyone has their favourite Matt. Yesterday’s celebration of the cartoonist’s thirty-year Telegraph anniversary proved this. Except that it didn’t. Now we know that everyone has their favourite Matt — except for Jeremy. Yes, the Duke of Edinburgh, the Prime Minister, all of her living predecessors, and pretty much everyone else you can think of paid tribute to Matt Pritchett’s work — many by revealing their favourites — but Corbyn declined, his team claiming “none of the Matt cartoons they had seen about Mr Corbyn were funny”. And that says it all, really.
 
What a sourpuss.
Even the Christmas cards he sent out were boring.
 

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