The results of the Finnish subwoofer shootout

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ian J said:
There is really a lot to digest in one sitting so I have come back a few times to re-read the test results.

I very much doubt whether many people will have the necessary technical expertise to interprete the results correctly and I make no claims to be technically minded but I am wondering just how much benefit I would get by upgrading my PC 20-39 PC Plus to the PB-12 Ultra as according to my reading of the stats it isn't that much better.
The difference in max SPL isn't that big, as you can see. Ultra is a bit stronger at the lower end especially when tuned to 16 Hz. But the big difference is in THD levels. Even the newer dB12.2 will beat the older dB12.1 easily, not to mention the Ultra. GD, spectral decay are very much alike, so from there you can't find an audiable difference.

I was measuring/tuning a DIY Tumult/BFD combo for my friend last night, so unfortunately the comments for each sub are still unwritten, but I'll promise to post them tonight. :oops:

My cylinder is still in stock tune and I am wondering whether my most cost effective upgrade might be to search out the port bung and re-tune it to 16Hz
Yes want an simple answer? Yes. But the newer dB12.2 or the Ultra wouldn't hurt you either.
 
dAVefaulkner said:
Ilkka, congratulations on producing a fantastic comprehensive set of test results. I wonder what the manufacturers think of them! They definately reveal how faithfully each unit can produce the original sound.
Thank you. I really appreaciate it. :)

I'm looking forward very much to seeing your PB10 measurements, which hopefully won't reveal anything too bad!
Me too. But before the PB10 I will measure the Axiom EP-600. It should be fun too.
 
Hi Ilkka just wondering if you produced Monolith in-room results as per the BK XLS200 or have the data in tabular form.
 
sonic65 said:
Hi Ilkka just wondering if you produced Monolith in-room results as per the BK XLS200 or have the data in tabular form.
Unfortunately the Monolith went to his new owner before I got the chance to measure it indoors.

But you can see the in-room response from the GP frequency response (or at least estimate it).
 
In as much as you can take from figures, the 20-39 and PB12 clearly "work" very well. I thought particularly the latter @ 16hz.
 
yes class stuff, well done.
 
Ian J said:
I very much doubt whether many people will have the necessary technical expertise to interprete the results correctly and I make no claims to be technically minded but I am wondering just how much benefit I would get by upgrading my PC 20-39 PC Plus to the PB-12 Ultra as according to my reading of the stats it isn't that much better.
When moving from the PB12-Plus/2 to the PB12-Ultra/2 I noticed a definite improvement in sound quality, and it felt much more capable. I think this has to do with the greater speed and accuracy of the Ultra-driver. Where one follows the rigid changes in sound, the other responds more gradually. Visually it would be something like the difference between a saw and a sine. Note: we are talking sound change here, not the sound of a saw or sine.

It would be great if someone attempted to measure these differences. A way to do this would be by measuring a modulated sound, like the sound of Mr. Incredible's car speeding off, and show it in a detailed 3d plot.
 
I'd better cancel my order for the 8 x PB12-Plus/2's then and wait to order 8 x PB12-Ultra/2s when they are finally available. :devil:
 
Ilkka: Still no comments on the individual subs? I'm waiting for these like a child waits for Christmas morning. :)
 
Nimby said:
I'd better cancel my order for the 8 x PB12-Plus/2's then and wait to order 8 x PB12-Ultra/2s when they are finally available. :devil:
Make that 8 x PB12-Ultra with 16Hz tuning and you'll never look back! :D

I might opt for a mere 2 x PB12-Ultra + PB12-Ultra/2 combo myself, afraid I might get bass-paranoia otherwise. Wouldn't need to upgrade my electrical supply either. I am all for bass and safety. :rolleyes: Bring on some Jurassic Lunch! :devil:
 
Ettepet said:
When moving from the PB12-Plus/2 to the PB12-Ultra/2 I noticed a definite improvement in sound quality, and it felt much more capable. I think this has to do with the greater speed and accuracy of the Ultra-driver. Where one follows the rigid changes in sound, the other responds more gradually. Visually it would be something like the difference between a saw and a sine. Note: we are talking sound change here, not the sound of a saw or sine.

It would be great if someone attempted to measure these differences. A way to do this would be by measuring a modulated sound, like the sound of Mr. Incredible's car speeding off, and show it in a detailed 3d plot.
I could measure that, but I don't think that there will be any differences. I'm not saying that there aren't any differences, only that this kind of measurement won't reveal them.
 
Oh and if someone hasn't heard. I will be testing the Axiom EP-600 and the SVS PB10-ISD very soon (2-3 weeks). It's not a competition of course.
 
Ilkka R said:
I could measure that, but I don't think that there will be any differences. I'm not saying that there aren't any differences, only that this kind of measurement won't reveal them.
It might prove to be difficult to measure, sure. :)

I just read a bit about the newer dB12-drivers, so the differences might not be so clear anymore. My May 2004 PB12-Plus/2 had the older ones.
 
Ettepet said:
It might prove to be difficult to measure, sure. :)

I just read a bit about the newer dB12-drivers, so the differences might not be so clear anymore. My May 2004 PB12-Plus/2 had the older ones.
Those drivers do have measurable differences, but who knows about the audiability. Of course one can hear 6 dB difference at 20 Hz, but other than that, it might be quite difficult. Also the dB12.1 I tested behaved quite differently what for example Ed Mullen tested, so who knows. Maybe I should test one dB12.1 more?

May 2004 of course has dB12.1 drivers, since the swap was made around late 2004, early 2005 (no exact date).

Of course there is also dB12 driver, but they are very old. But propably someone still has them.
 
Your work is an outstanding contribution and I also want to thank you for it. I have had my SVS PC-Ultra since May and after much experimentation settled on the 16hz tune so I am glad to see your graphs confirm my impressions. Well done and it casts your previous postings in a new light.
 
jakeman said:
Your work is an outstanding contribution and I also want to thank you for it. I have had my SVS PC-Ultra since May and after much experimentation settled on the 16hz tune so I am glad to see your graphs confirm my impressions.
Thank you! Mine are also tuned to 16 Hz.

Well done and it casts your previous postings in a new light.
Hopefully you mean what I'm thinking of. :)
 
We understand each other. :smashin:

I am also looking forward to your work on the EP600 and I will email you about where we can have a proper discussion for the comparisons.
 
Okay, a small update.

Unfortunately I discovered a small error I made regarding the impulse responses (the actual place of the impulse was off), but they are now updated. I also changed the range, so one could see better what happens when an impulse is put through a system.

Of course this new updated impulse response has affected on all ETF based data, but they are updated too. It's hard to see the changes with a naked eye. For example GD's have gone down by a few ms.
 
Ilkka R said:
Results have been taken temporarily offline.

Why is this? :)
 
I imagine it's because, I believe, he has just completed part III of the shootout and is integrating the latest set of results. It could take a while as he translates it all to English. It's gone offline at DVD Plaza where he normally posts the results first, too.

Russell

[ link removed by moderator ]
 
russ.will said:
I imagine it's because, I believe, he has just completed part III of the shootout and is integrating the latest set of results. It could take a while as he translates it all to English. It's gone offline at DVD Plaza where he normally posts the results first, too.

Russell

Ahh I see....Cheers Russell...:thumbsup:
 
russ.will said:
I imagine it's because, he is integrating the latest set of results.
This is probably true since we have been expexting for the results of the shootout III for a while now in dvdplaza. Part III is really something to look for since Ilkka ran the tests for over :eek: 20 subwoofers. there are both DIY and retail subs.

Imagine the amount of work needed in making the results presentable!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

The latest video from AVForums

Is 4K Blu-ray Worth It?
Subscribe to our YouTube channel
Back
Top Bottom