The results of my cable "upgrades"

Originally posted by eviljohn2
I hadn't thought about the unit end mylo - that's an interesting point. Even the back of the most expensive electrical goods only seem to use average sockets at best.

However, if the cable and termination itself aren't impedence matched properly then (as I'm sure you know) there is an enormous effect on the signal.

It's probably much like mains cables etc. in that having expensive, shielded cables from the wall socket to the appliance will reduce interference etc along that stretch; there's nothing you can do about the rest of the national grid short of hardwiring straight into a substation!

Following that logic, surely the true audiophile equipment should actually be hardwired together rather than using removable interconnects?

You forgot that most of the interference is produced by the "appliance" itself, so those shielded cables will stop it from affecting the rest of the "appliances"... :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Brogan
As I have said many times before, I don't believe that even the cheapest "digital" cable of 1-2 metres in length will degrade a signal so that what is fed in at one end has been corrupted by the time it comes out of the other end.
And all this tosh that is written about more expensive digital cables giving "brighter" or "richer" sound is just that, tosh.
If the bits coming out of both a cheap and expensive cable are the same then the resulting sound after being decoded by your amp will be identical.

Unsurprisingly, I can't hear the difference on CD playback between coax, optical, iLink or phono so perhaps my ears are shot to hell...:D

Jitter has been discussed to death, and even proven cientifically, my friends and I tested different cables, even on budget players and there where significant differences, not that the most expensive where always better, actually the Apogee Wide-Eye won all our tests, and it costs $50... :eek:
 
Cables do make a difference but doing it correctly is really quite cheap to do, this is what I have always advocated here. Perple make the most mistakes with video / digital leads but to do analogue corrctly isn't much money at all. It ain't aout money but engineering, L, C, R, screening and CI if applicable.

Effects of cables are 'over played' by many and often just cover up more fundamental problems and their effects are not universal either
 
PS I am not convinced any of your changes could be viewed as upgrades but just different.
 
Originally posted by The Beekeeper
PS I am not convinced any of your changes could be viewed as upgrades but just different.
As I have used higher quality materials, replaced standard cable with screened cable and metal banana plugs with gold plated plugs, used ferrites on mains leads, connected the shield to earth, foam dielectric instead of the normal 5 cell plastic, etc. then I would consider them "upgrades".
 
Upgrades you hear... :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by lowrider
Upgrades you hear... :rolleyes:
Eh?
An upgrade is an upgrade whether you personally perceive the benefits or not.
If I was to change my AX5i for an AX10i I doubt I would hear any difference when playing back a CD but it would still be an upgrade.:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Brogan
Eh?
An upgrade is an upgrade whether you personally perceive the benefits or not.
If I was to change my AX5i for an AX10i I doubt I would hear any difference when playing back a CD but it would still be an upgrade.:rolleyes:

If I buy a very expensive cable but it sounds the same or worst, it isn´t an upgrade, IMHO... :rolleyes:

It may be prettier, then it is an aesthetic upgrade... ;)
 
Originally posted by lowrider
If I buy a very expensive cable but it sounds the same or worst, it isn´t an upgrade, IMHO... :rolleyes:

It may be prettier, then it is an aesthetic upgrade... ;)
Just because you can't hear it doesn't mean it isn't performing better...:rolleyes:
The human ear has a finite range and that range decreases with age so it's no surprise if you can't hear the "improvements" by using better cables.
Your argument is nonsenical but think what you will.
 
Originally posted by Brogan
Just because you can't hear it doesn't mean it isn't performing better...:rolleyes:
Your argument is nonsenical but think what you will.

If you can't hear an improvement then I can't see the point in getting the more expensive cable. The argument is completely logical to me.

If I can't hear/see an improvement with more expensive cable, but someone else can, I'm not going to bother buying it.
 
Originally posted by ReTrO
If you can't hear an improvement then I can't see the point in getting the more expensive cable. The argument is completely logical to me.
I agree but you don't know you're not going to hear any improvement untila after you've installed it.
Unless of course you trial it before-hand but this is not possible if you make it yourself.


If I can't hear/see an improvement with more expensive cable, but someone else can, I'm not going to bother buying it.
Again I agree and the answer is the same.
Perhaps the reason I can't see/hear any improvement is my cd and amp aren't good enough to exploit the "benefits" of these better cables?
Or perhaps there is no improvement?
Or perhaps there is but I can't perceive it.

Whatever the reason, I find the argument that because I can't see or hear the difference then they are not upgrades a bit odd.
The cables are definitely "better" than my old ones - better quality materials, better shielding, etc. so as far as I am concerned they are an upgrade from the very basic, standard out of the box items and cheapest RS had to offer I had before.
 
Far from me criticising your effort, I have done similar "upgrades", just for peace of mind... :blush:

I was only criticising your assumption that cables dont make a difference, based on your experiment... :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by lowrider
I was only criticising your assumption that cables dont make a difference, based on your experiment... :rolleyes:
But it's not an assumption, it's fact?!

Perhaps a more accurate statement then would be that I nor anyone who has seen the before and after is able to perceive any improvement since I "upgraded" my cables...
 
Originally posted by Brogan
Perhaps a more accurate statement then would be that I nor anyone who has seen the before and after is able to perceive any improvement since I "upgraded" my cables...

That is better, as long as you dont make it the rule... ;)
 
Last year had some Qunex 2 IC made my own up and what a difference even the wife can hear it. The soundstage really opened up and the bass came alive. Just open up some of these cables and check out the soldering and terminations on some of them. Make a little effort and take your time building up your own and you will here the difference.
Last note upgrading your mains cable is the best thing you can do.
Cheers
 
I have to say I think interconnects and speaker cable upgrades can make a tremendous difference. However the upgrade doesn't have to be in the cost (although in most cases it will be). Because everything works differently with everything its impossible to say and only an experienced person could make a educated guess as to how things 'may' improve (or not!).

You can, if you find the right cable hear a significant improvement in quality and it can either be slight or a very obvious improvement.

I recently upgrade my QED interconnects (which I thought were ok) to the 18" Chord Chorus and was amazed at the improvement. It was not slight it was very very clearly apparent (or rather Transparent;) ) to every one that heard my hifi.
Which is, by the way

Arcam cd33
A32
P35 x 2

I now have three pairs of Chord Chorus Interconnects (all bought from ebay as im tri-amping.

My next cable upgrade was from the Silver Ann speaker cable to Chord Oddessy (ebay again :smashin: ) one mans loss is another mans gain :devil:

I didn't stick with Chord out of any loyalty. They just sounded so good compared to other cables I heard. The naim cable I also auditioned sound to boomy in the bass and Chord Rumour was not as clear and open, although very good.
My speakers are the PMC OB1's.

My point is that cables, be it Interconnects, speaker or power, can and do make a difference, its just it may be more apparent on one system than on another. Converg. Gordon at the EventII gave a demo of a branded power lead and one he had made himself the difference was cleary audible to everyone in the room (which was better is not the point). The point is that they were different.

CH
 
Brogan, I am sympathetic to your views / predicament, but I do not agree that is a fact.

There are NO facts about anything in the world - merely assertions that we find sufficiently convincing (or convenient) to rely on. The most seemingly irrefutable facts can be suddenly overturned by one negative incident. We can only disprove facts, we can never prove them because we can never be sure we have knowledge of all the variables.

Remember, it used to be a held as fact that the world was flat, and that it was the centre of the universe...such that heretics were imprisoned or executed

So there are no facts! and thats a fact!
 
maybe we are just clinging on to the idea that if we spent the money, our cables must sound better...it appeals to logic, and our self esteem (making the right decision / not being foolish with mioney).

However, i believe my recent cable upgrades gave me a clear visual improvement, but my ears are I think, a far cruder instrument, and I'm not sure. I am happy that I have done the best i can in my budget to remove any weak links and maybe the verall experience is more satisfying in that knowledge.
 
Hi Brogan,

Re: "Unsurprisingly, I can't hear the difference on CD playback between coax, optical, iLink or phono so perhaps my ears are shot to hell... "

When you mention "coax" and "phono" in this context, what do you mean? As I understand it, coax is a cable structure and phono would be an RCA connector.

In this context, I read this as "phono" meaning a stereo analogue phono lead and "coax" meaning an coaxial lead carrying digital audio.

If this is what you meant by this, then I am suprised that you did not hear any difference between the analogue stereo "phono" and digital signals as they would be produced by completely different DACs.

Moray
 
Moray M, yes you are correct - by phono I was referring to the analogue 2CH cable and co-ax the digital multiCH cable.
Perhaps the DACs are very similar or perhaps they both do such a good job of converting the signal that it is impossible to discern any difference? After all, isn't this the purpose of a DAC...?
 
Wake up the old thread time.......as I'm starting to agree with the opinion that good quality cables are fine, expensive ones are ott.

Mark Grant may well be getting more business from me once I sell my Chord Chorus interconnects.
 
alfablue said:
maybe we are just clinging on to the idea that if we spent the money, our cables must sound better...it appeals to logic, and our self esteem (making the right decision / not being foolish with mioney).

It's called confirmation bias and it's the reason why double blind tests were designed.

But, I have to say that better cables can make a difference to some equipment in some environments. I think it's a matter of balance and matching the cables you need to the equipment you have; the more sensitive a piece of equipment is, the more likely you'll see a difference - spending £200 for cables to fit on £400 speakers is unlikely to improve upon £2/m cables.

I have fairly dirty power and a lot of RF interference (I think) where I currently live so cables with better shielding and a power cleaner certainly made a difference to the picture quality on my plasma and ferrite cores made a small (ok, very, very small) difference to the audio on a set of rear wireless speakers I have.
 

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