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The range anxiety game

IronGiant

Moderator
I thought I'd play it today in my Skoda VRS. I filled up earlier in the week and because I've been pootling around town it showed a miserable range of 545 miles. Mrs IG drove us to Hertfordshire to day and due to Motorway driving being more efficient we arrived there with a range of 580 miles. I then had to drive to Basildon and back to Hertfordshire. It was a 2 hour round trip, but I had at least three hours to kill. So I drove there at 55. My daughter and I grinned as the range counter ticked up and up. We got to our destination with a range of 680 miles showing. Having already covered 122 miles.
We then drove around Basildon finding several places to shop which killed the mileage, and drove back to Hertfordshire at a reasonable speed. At which point Mrs IG drove us back to Oxford. So we have driven 232 miles today and realistically still have 375 in the tank :thumbsup:

In normal use I'm getting 500-600 miles range. If I drove like a nanny I could get a 1000 easily.

Point being? we took our oldest daughter to a University open day. Me and our youngest daughter then went to pick up some tortoises in Essex. And then pick up the open day party. And get home ASAP. I could not have risked this in an EV with less than a 300 mile range.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Seriously considering a BMW 530E plug in hybrid as a company car at the moment, as it doesn't kill me on the BiK.

A few mates have them, but never bother to charge them, which seems a waste. A lot of the offices I visit have charge points and I don't mind charging it at home as I choose to claim back mileage driven rather than have a fuel card.

I don't think I could go full EV, as I agree, 300 miles is not always enough for a busy day on the road and high speed charging points are not so common at the places I visit. The ability to fill up with petrol in a few minutes compared to a 90 minutes + for electricity is still a strong decider for me.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
Point being? we took our oldest daughter to a University open day. Me and our youngest daughter then went to pick up some tortoises in Essex. And then pick up the open day party. And get home ASAP. I could not have risked this in an EV with less than a 300 mile range.
This is partly why we cancelled the Model 3 order and the only EV I would even remotely consider to replace the remaining ICE car is a 100D S - which has an EPA rating just shy of 300 mile, but ideally a new Raven S with a rating of 375 miles.

BUT when you look at the price of a big battery EV like a LR S, £80k after options, and how often most people will use that extra range - 1 or 2 times a month, you are effectively paying £500+ premium per trip for the convince of not having to stop on a long trip which any combustion car offers right now.

Some people can afford that kind of premium, plenty of Tesla owners have upgraded to Raven cars at a £40-50k+ net post part exchange of existing S/X. But most people cannot that kind of spend, bare in mind most S/Xs were £60k+ usually £70-80k spends already.

But even in a Raven S, add in rain, cold, a head wind, travelling at lane 3 speeds, a multi stop 230 milen trip will be pushing the SOC close to single digits, add in a diversion and all of a sudden you will be turning off the heater, and tailgating a lorry in your £80k+ state of the art EV, whilst a £500 Nissan Almera will comfortably be blasting past at 80mph in lane 3.....

I've been driving around in EVs for nearly 5 years now, my experience tells me to go fully electric you have to be really dedicated to the cause (and absolutely loaded), for everyone else one EV and one combustion car makes perfect sense.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Baiting EV drivers is great fun. Just push them to go a little bit faster and watch their faces as they look down at the power gauge and start thinking about the next charging point...
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
Why I went Golf GTE Hybrid (own purchase) for no range anxiety plus do mostly short journeys.

Now had 16mth, done 12,500 mile and total petrol purchased £210. Also charge 40% of time free at work too. Win Win. :thumbsup:

I'm considering the new Mk8 241bhp GTE with over 40 mile electric range as its replacement rather than full electric car. Performance of a GTI too.

Baiting EV drivers is great fun. Just push them to go a little bit faster and watch their faces as they look down at the power gauge and start thinking about the next charging point...
I know not full EV but I beat most at the lights full electric and can go into GTE mode for performance still at speed. It replaced a Golf R Automatic 0-60 4.6s which was mental but also only averaged 28mpg.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
We are replacing the wife’s car next year and will have a good look at electric and hybrid options.

As for me, I will probably keep my dirty diesel until I retire at least. My range anxiety is to do with work, the nature is that I can never guarantee where I will be asked to go next week, and in some cases, the next day.

I hear the stories of long EV journeys, but they are usually occasional with plenty of planned notice and not time critical.

But not so good when you could be asked to drive to Bristol in the morning for a day long meeting and then drive back in the evening. Stopping for for an hour long break with your family when you are on a leisure trip is one thing, but having to do it when your journey is time critical or you have had a long day and just want to get home at a reasonable hour.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
Right - but it's probably worth considering that
a) the opportunities for recharging while at your destination (i.e. it takes little or no additional time) are improving all the time. Not yet guaranteed everywhere yet by any means, but month by month it's getting more and more likely that such a facility will exist. So it might be the case that (depending on where you are "sent") maybe 80% of the time you don't need the extra stop.
b) the choice of vehicles with greater range is improving as well. Our new car (same make and model) has ~180 miles (vs. ~130 in its predecessor).
c) depending on the vehicle and the charger, any essential stop may well not need to be an hour - a more or less empty Tesla can regain well over 100 miles in 15-20 minutes at a Tesla station.

I'd argue that it's important to consider a broad spread of driving usage/pattern (as it applies to you), rather than dwelling on the (possibly only) rare/occasional instances when some extra logistics or thinking may be needed.

===========================
*Aside: Example - on Sunday we left Mrs LV426's Mum's fully charged and came home (~2 hours). On Monday we made one 13 mile round trip, and then Mrs LV426 went out in the evening to the town 7 miles away. Still about 60 miles left at this point. While she was doing her thing there (which lasted four hours) the car was left recharging in a car park adjacent to her venue (so no significant time overhead in this case) where there are 8 outlets. 7 miles back home and it has 160 miles available. The point is - that facility wasn't there a couple of months ago. (We did that rather than a home charge as the per-unit rate is lower than our domestic tariff - but the same opportunity would have applied had it been a long trip etc.)
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
Right - but it's probably worth considering that
a) the opportunities for recharging while at your destination (i.e. it takes little or no additional time) are improving all the time. Not yet guaranteed everywhere yet by any means, but month by month it's getting more and more likely that such a facility will exist. So it might be the case that (depending on where you are "sent") maybe 80% of the time you don't need the extra stop.
b) the choice of vehicles with greater range is improving as well. Our new car (same make and model) has ~180 miles (vs. ~130 in its predecessor).
c) depending on the vehicle and the charger, any essential stop may well not need to be an hour - a more or less empty Tesla can regain well over 100 miles in 15-20 minutes at a Tesla station.

I'd argue that it's important to consider a broad spread of driving usage/pattern (as it applies to you), rather than dwelling on the (possibly only) rare/occasional instances when some extra logistics or thinking may be needed.

===========================
*Aside: Example - on Sunday we left Mrs LV426's Mum's fully charged and came home (~2 hours). On Monday we made one 13 mile round trip, and then Mrs LV426 went out in the evening to the town 7 miles away. Still about 60 miles left at this point. While she was doing her thing there (which lasted four hours) the car was left recharging in a car park adjacent to her venue (so no significant time overhead in this case) where there are 8 outlets. 7 miles back home and it has 160 miles available. The point is - that facility wasn't there a couple of months ago. (We did that rather than a home charge as the per-unit rate is lower than our domestic tariff - but the same opportunity would have applied had it been a long trip etc.)
Fair point. But the original post is more about that owning just an EV isn't current viable.
As for your 180 mile range? Is that in winter?
It was -3°C the other morning up north. A colleague had to get lift into work from someone local to him as he wasn't sure his i3 would make the 100 mileish round trip to work and back.
No charging at work at present, and he didn't fancy hanging around for an extra 45 minutes after work to charge his EV.
I am going to the Lake District again at weekend. Not going near any major cities so would have to charge at a service station. Weather could be below freezing for the whole one night / 2 days I am up there. How many miles, especially when 150 miles will be motorway, will your 180 mile range car actually acheive do you think?
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
Fair point. But the original post is more about that owning just an EV isn't current viable.
As for your 180 mile range? Is that in winter?
It was -3°C the other morning up north. A colleague had to get lift into work from someone local to him as he wasn't sure his i3 would make the 100 mileish round trip to work and back.
No charging at work at present, and he didn't fancy hanging around for an extra 45 minutes after work to charge his EV.
I am going to the Lake District again at weekend. Not going near any major cities so would have to charge at a service station. Weather could be below freezing for the whole one night / 2 days I am up there. How many miles, especially when 150 miles will be motorway, will your 180 mile range car actually acheive do you think?
Can't you charge it at your accommodation whilst out there?
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
@Delvey - I haven't had this one long enough to be sure, but I'd guess, in the exact circumstances you describe, it may get down to about 150 miles. Bearing in mind that, as I say, it's (IMO) flawed to seek out the (possibly occasional) instances where some additional thinking or logistics will be needed and allow them to swamp more common, easier to manage daily usage. I can say that with confidence of two years of ~130 mile car ownership. Yes, that range did mean some overhead, but only on rare occasions. For the majority of the time, I was saved the time and cost of conventional refuelling.
For your trip, here are factors I'd consider, if it were me and my car.
1: Absent any EV dedicated provision, I'd only need a 13a outlet (or a caravan hookup) at my destination to get the thing full - as long as I had enough time whilst there. Or, over two shorter overnight sessions, partly full on night one - drive a shorter distance whilst there to get to my walk or whatever - and then full over night two for the trip back. And I might very well choose where I stayed based on whther or not they would let me do this.
2: Or, a SHORTER stop at a pub or coffee or services etc., en route, to take a partial top-up (say 20 minutes to add 50+ miles) for added confidence.
3: And/or drive at 60 vs 70 - which will add only a little time to the trip but extend range
etc.
The point is - it will be a rare trip where literally nothing can be done; I have found that it's far easier than my pre-purchase/use fears suggested. Yes, maybe there have been occasional compromises. But only occasional.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
Right - but it's probably worth considering that
a) the opportunities for recharging while at your destination (i.e. it takes little or no additional time) are improving all the time.
b) the choice of vehicles with greater range is improving as well. Our new car (same make and model) has ~180 miles (vs. ~130 in its predecessor).
c) depending on the vehicle and the charger, any essential stop may well not need to be an hour - a more or less empty Tesla can regain well over 100 miles in 15-20 minutes at a Tesla station.

I'd argue that it's important to consider a broad spread of driving usage/pattern (as it applies to you), rather than dwelling on the (possibly only) rare/occasional instances when some extra logistics or thinking may be needed.
Not sure if you were replying to my post - it sounded like it was but not certain.

Anyway, charging at site - there aren’t any, lucky if I get a place to park to be honest. I’m generally going to large industry or government sites, plonked on a huge, practically full car park.

Range improving all the time, I’m aware of that and am keeping an eye on it, but if I needed to buy a car tomorrow there isn’t an affordable EV that I would feel comfortable with.

But when you are going to or from work I really don’t want to stop, especially if it is a long trip and I’ve been away from my family. It’s bad enough having to stop for fossil fuel, I certainly don’t want to have to leave 45 minutes earlier or get home 45 minutes later just because of the car.

My usage pattern is a problem. In 2017 I barely used my car at all as my assignment was in London and so I used the train. This year I have been working away each week in Portsmouth - could have used an EV for that but it may have been a bit stressful and inconvenient as there are no charging facilities where I was working or staying - about 240 miles total so realistically doable. 2018 was a spattering of assignments, including Preston, Bristol and Barrow all of which would have been awkward with an EV.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member

IronGiant

Moderator
:devil: All that water, I'm sure you could rig up a temporary DIY Hydroelectric system
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
:devil: All that water, I'm sure you could rig up a temporary DIY Hydroelectric system
Not sure United Utilities would be impressed.
I have stayed at the Haweswater Hotel nearby, which doesn't have EV charging points. (Fantastic hotel as well)
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
Not sure United Utilities would be impressed.
I have stayed at the Haweswater Hotel nearby, which doesn't have EV charging points. (Fantastic hotel as well)
Does it not have electricity at all?

A Honda portable generator in the boot may do the trick 😂
 

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