The Proposed Governmental DNA Database - Your views and thoughts!

Do you think that a DNA database is a good idea?

  • Yes - it's a good idea, and we should have it!

    Votes: 19 39.6%
  • No - it's a bad idea, and we should not have it!

    Votes: 29 60.4%

  • Total voters
    48
  • Poll closed .

PoochJD

Distinguished Member
Hi,

They're at it again - the Government - as they now want to have a DNA Databse of every single living individual in the UK, on one, centralised and (allegedly) secure databse, to help reduce crime.

This thread is simply for your views and comments on whether you think this will work, and wether or not you feel it's a good idea. Then, at the bottom, please vote - simply yes (it's a good idea) or no (it's a bad idea). The poll will remain open for 10 days (until 16th September) and all votes are private and confidential, so no one will know what you voted for, unless you mention it in your post. Thanks! :)

Personally speaking, with the government's track record on secure :rotfl: databases, and the infringement of civil liberties, I'm dead set against this database idea.

I also believe that, as with the proposed ID Card scheme, that government members, judges, and the like, will find someway to make sure they aren't included on the database! I also think it's open to too many potential misuses. Ultimately, the DNA Database implies to me, that the government wants all of us under its thumb, and that we are now all guilty of something, unless proven innocent, rather than how it should be, which is innocent, until proven guilty.

What do the rest of you think?


Pooch
 

Philly112

Distinguished Member
I also believe that, as with the proposed ID Card scheme, that government members, judges, and the like, will find someway to make sure they aren't included on the database!

Pooch

Pooch - is this true - that certain people will be excluded from the proposed ID scheme?

Cheers
Phil
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
Personally I don't see the civil liberties argument. What civil liberty are you losing? Erm, nothing.

Everyone has a national insurance number, what difference does it make to add your dna code to that number?

If it solves 1 rape or murder then IMO it's more than worth it. Not to mention the extremely strong deterrent effect to crims that if they commit a crime and leave 1 spec of dna, they will be caught.

If you have nothing to hide then what's the problem?
 

Dunwa

Active Member
It's a tough one but in the end I voted no.

Whilst a national register of DNA will no doubt help in the solving of crimes I do not trust that the government will be able to delivery a totally secure database that will contain all this information, we can't seem to keep out military networks secure form the Chinese ... allegedly. ;)

What I am more concerned about is who will have access to this information. How long before the government starts to sell this information to “interested third parties” in a similar way in what they do with the electoral register. Insurance companies for example could use the information to alter or deny policies due to something in your DNA.

If they do go ahead with this database and conviction rates increase where are they going to put all the criminals ? Our jails are already overflowing and this will just lead to a false justice where criminals are let off or sit a home on their Xbox’s and PS3’s with a tag a round their ankle.
 

krish

Distinguished Member
They're at it again - the Government - as they now want to have a DNA Databse of every single living individual in the UK, on one, centralised and (allegedly) secure databse, to help reduce crime.
Pooch, the govt have stated they are not going to do this; it was a senior judge who called for it
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6980188.stm
 

PoochJD

Distinguished Member
Hi,

Phil: you asked:
Pooch - is this true - that certain people will be excluded from the proposed ID scheme?

The answer is that I don't know. However, I suspect that they will find someway, or make some kind of rule that excludes them. This is what I feel will happen.


Dave W: The idea that a DNA database might solve one crime, and this makes it justifiable, is commendable. But, again, I suspect that the database could be made available or accessible to "interested third parties" (as Deepcore says in his post), like medical insurance companies, employers and the like. I also don't think the database will remain secure, and with our government's superb track record in keeping secure items secure (or, rather, they've been cracked and abused very quickly), I simply can't trust them with that kind of information.

For those who don't know, your DNA is the human building block. In it, is every piece of information that tells your body what skin colour you will have, how long your hair will grow, how big you will become.

DNA is made up in strands, like spaghetti. But within those strands, there is a coded sequence that is unique to you. However, that coded sequence, just like any other kind of sequence (e.g. the 26 letters in the alphabet, the words in a sentence, etc), can be copied, modified, cloned and altered! :eek:

I'll repeat that...

Your DNA can be copied, modified, cloned and altered!

That's the bit that shocks me most. It takes just one DNA strand or cell, and your life can be modified to become someone or something else. Or at least, made to appear like it is you, when it may not be you.

Now, I don't want to scare people, because altering DNA is very, very difficult to do, and only the best scientists in the world could attempt it. But, I still can't trust our government with that kind of risk, and have them assure me that it will remain secure and safe.

For the good of everyone, and the protection of us all, I can't justifiably allow a database to exist, even if it might save just one person, or solve one crime.


As for Krish or MrTBag ruining my week, nope, I'm okay, but the government say and promise a lot, but deliver almost nothing! Do you really trust these few men and women, with the very essence of your life, your individuality, and the element that makes you unique, on the proviso that they promise to keep it secure? I wouldn't trust this government, as far as I could throw them! If they can prove otherwise, I may reconsider, but for now, their track record is pitiful, and I am not willing to chance my life in their hands, irrespective of what they might claim.


Pooch
 

mrtbag

Well-known Member
As for Krish or MrTBag ruining my week, nope, I'm okay, but the government say and promise a lot, but deliver almost nothing! Do you really trust these few men and women, with the very essence of your life, your individuality, and the element that makes you unique, on the proviso that they promise to keep it secure? I wouldn't trust this government, as far as I could throw them! If they can prove otherwise, I may reconsider, but for now, their track record is pitiful, and I am not willing to chance my life in their hands, irrespective of what they might claim.
Pooch

But the government aren't organising a DNA database. Just like they don't plan to make exclusions for ID cards.

Maybe if you can actually back up your posts with some quotes from government saying these things will happen, we might be more inclined to believe it. As it is, it's just your thoughts on the matter and not something I feel necessary to be concerned about.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
Hi,

Phil: you asked:

The answer is that I don't know. However, I suspect that they will find someway, or make some kind of rule that excludes them. This is what I feel will happen.


Dave W: The idea that a DNA database might solve one crime, and this makes it justifiable, is commendable. But, again, I suspect that the database could be made available or accessible to "interested third parties" (as Deepcore says in his post), like medical insurance companies, employers and the like. I also don't think the database will remain secure, and with our government's superb track record in keeping secure items secure (or, rather, they've been cracked and abused very quickly), I simply can't trust them with that kind of information.

For those who don't know, your DNA is the human building block. In it, is every piece of information that tells your body what skin colour you will have, how long your hair will grow, how big you will become.

DNA is made up in strands, like spaghetti. But within those strands, there is a coded sequence that is unique to you. However, that coded sequence, just like any other kind of sequence (e.g. the 26 letters in the alphabet, the words in a sentence, etc), can be copied, modified, cloned and altered! :eek:

I'll repeat that...

Your DNA can be copied, modified, cloned and altered!

That's the bit that shocks me most. It takes just one DNA strand or cell, and your life can be modified to become someone or something else. Or at least, made to appear like it is you, when it may not be you.

Now, I don't want to scare people, because altering DNA is very, very difficult to do, and only the best scientists in the world could attempt it. But, I still can't trust our government with that kind of risk, and have them assure me that it will remain secure and safe.

For the good of everyone, and the protection of us all, I can't justifiably allow a database to exist, even if it might save just one person, or solve one crime.


Pooch

Pooch, do you know how many people in the world have had their full DNA genome sequence mapped?

The grand total of 1, Dr James Watson who is the co-discoverer of DNA's double helix structure.

The DNA database does not contain any info on what's in the DNA because finding this out is very time consuming, expensive (486 thousand quid each) and bloody hard as you pointed out above. All it does is store the basic DNA code of the person, just like a fingerprint. A sample is then compared to the database and the question is asked, does this sample match this person? Yes or no and that's about it.

There's nothing sinister about it, it's just a simple but very effective tool to enable the Police to definitively place a person at the scene of a crime.
 

Solomon Grundy

Distinguished Member
Looks like anothe scam to fine people if you ask me, "we tested the chewing gum spat on the floor and the DNA proves it was you, here's a fine"...plus the expense of setting it up...plus the people do not get punished when they are caught...plus the serious crimes are almost always solved using the tools at our disposal now...

Pointless!
 

PoochJD

Distinguished Member
hi,

The DNA database does not contain any info on what's in the DNA because finding this out is very time consuming, expensive (486 thousand quid each) and bloody hard as you pointed out above. All it does is store the basic DNA code of the person, just like a fingerprint. A sample is then compared to the database and the question is asked, does this sample match this person? Yes or no and that's about it. There's nothing sinister about it, it's just a simple but very effective tool to enable the Police to definitively place a person at the scene of a crime.

Thanks for the information. It was genuinely informative. :)

The database, though, is still open to abuse and/or misuse, and in my opinion - and only my opinion - I don't trust the government with this kind of operation.

The government has no need to use ID Cards, and they have no real need for a DNA database. They are simply throwing out ideas that they think will help solve crime or reduce it. Irrespective, though, my opinion is that our government has no right to ask me (or anyone else) to donate their ID or their DNA, and trust them with it! In my eyes, it's a civil liberties issue, and something I hold dearly. This is Great Britain - a country in which we should be allowed to walk freely, as long as we aren't breaking any laws, and the government do not need ID Cards or DNA databases to solve crimes. They need more police on the streets, a better judicial system, and a reduction on poverty in society. Without tackling any of those, things like ID Cards and DNA databases, are purely other tools, that might help them, but are not guaranteed.

I've stated my case, and I thank everyone who has commented thus far, but I should probably step down now, from this thread, and let others have their say. :)


Pooch
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
Government + IT = Disaster. Enough said.
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
I thought we'd already established that the government aren't planning it. A Judge has simply said he thinks it's a good idea.

True.

An appeal court judge said he thought there should be a national compulsory DNA database for a number of reasons including the detection and prevention of crime and the fact that ethnic minorities are vastly over represented on the current database.

Naturally the governments response to this was, "we welcome the debate on this issue". In other words, "we won't lose face if everyone hates the idea".:D
 

mrtbag

Well-known Member
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we have a trust worthy government who'd succeed brilliantly in such a project. I just find it hard to understand a thread that has lot's of people bashing the government for a proposal thay haven't even made. In fact, can we get the title changed, it's certainly misleading.
 

fortean

Active Member
So a criminal gets a bit of your hair from off your collar; on a bus or train maybe. Then plants it at his next job and who gets the collar now?
 

Dave

Distinguished Member
So a criminal gets a bit of your hair from off your collar; on a bus or train maybe. Then plants it at his next job and who gets the collar now?

Well, as I said it's a tool. A person is still subject to a full and fair trial.

A conviction on DNA evidence alone is pretty much inconceivable.
 

Dunwa

Active Member
I thought we'd already established that the government aren't planning it. A Judge has simply said he thinks it's a good idea.

..but if the idea becomes adopted who will deliver it ? The government, that's what I thought we were debating ?
 

fortean

Active Member
It should create an interesting black market for a mixed bag of DNA bits'n'pieces to spread around a crime scene.
 

Dunwa

Active Member
It should create an interesting black market for a mixed bag of DNA bits'n'pieces to spread around a crime scene.

Just imagine if the was a murder in a hair dressers :rotfl:
 

mrtbag

Well-known Member
..but if the idea becomes adopted who will deliver it ? The government, that's what I thought we were debating ?

Part of my point is that the government is clearly not pleasing the majority here. Instead of debating something that HAS NOT been adopted, and with no indication it will. Shouldn't we be debating what they have done wrong, and how they should fix things that are broken now? Once again, the conspiracy theorists are wasting all our time.:boring:
 

bongo123

Active Member
I think its a great idea, start swabbing em when there born and when people enter the UK they should also be tagged, heck if you don't commit any crimes what have you to worry about, after all the government can be trusted....

Seriously, id be for it.
 

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