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The new B&W speakers: 600 series 3.

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by dAvE6, Oct 25, 2001.

  1. dAvE6

    dAvE6
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    Well some of you may rememrber me for slating the old cc6 speaker and being a bit unsure of my setup. I then ordered the lcr6 and a pair of 602's to bolster the whole setup a bit.

    Then the announcment of the new series was made, so i just waited, went off to university and now finally i have them.

    The LCR6 is simply superb. In the shop the difference between the cc6 and the lcr6 wasnt very clear, but at home this new version is great. It's so dynamic, producing great range of lows and crisp highs. Clarity and depth is what this speaker has in droves. No wonder they phased out the cc6.

    I ordered the 602's and then changed it to the 602.5's assuming they were the 602's but with a floorstand. Wrong, they are in fact, the 601's with a floorstand! The drive unit size and all the ranges and specs are exactly the same as the OLD 601's. I was very dissapointed in this, especially after paying £400 for them. But the 603's drive unit has also been reduced, probably for the reason that the old 603's were slightly sloppy and boomy, plus unresponsive at low volumes. the new ones sound completly different, with much more control and openness. However, obviously they don't have quite the same grunt. The specs are the same though which is good. A mile better than the 602.5's thats for sure. 70hz-20hz for the 602.5's while the 603's produce 48hz-20hz just like the old ones did. Quite a substantial difference i'm sure you'll agree. This brings me to the conclusion that the series has been separated into book shelves and floorstanders. the 602.5 isn't nessasarily an upgrade from the 602. On the contrary, but they do have the advantage of a larger cabinet volume obviously. Just be careful you don't assume things, and look at the specs first! I know specs don't matter much, but they are still a decent enough indication of certain attributes.

    I had ordered some speakers from a supplier i won't name here, and they werent in yet obviously, so i paid and just waited for them to come in so i could arrange delivery. Get this though...I tried to cancel the order when they hadn't even got them in yet and they didnt even let me have a refund!!! i begged but they bloody messed me about. I couldn't believe this. Is this even legal when i havent received the goods yet?! So now i have been roped into using credit and buying a pair of 603's instead. There goes another £"00 of my student budget. Oh well, hopefully it will be worth it. Especially considering i'm moving off campus next year and will share a flat with a few people with BIGGER rooms. But has anyone else come accross this? Just offering credit rather than refund. I am appalled. Hehe, now i just have to spend weeks tuning my new rel q200 as well. It sounds great though even out the box with no tuning, just bunged on the floor at a random frequancy.

    If anyone has any questions or comments about the new 600 series 3, then post them here please.

    Thanks.:)
     
  2. Damian1978

    Damian1978
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    Yep the series 3 speakers are pretty hot.

    I have the new 603S3 at the front the LCR6 at the centre and the new 601S3 at the back.

    The sound really holds together with movies, and music is pretty damn good through the 603's.

    They are quite attractive in light oak as well.

    As for the refund/credit note situation as far as I know the Sales of Goods act should let you cancel the order if you have'nt received the order yet.

    What retailer is it?

    I'd give Trading standards a bell, they are normally pretty helpful.

    Hope this helps.:)
     
  3. dAvE6

    dAvE6
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    Ah it's ok thanks, i have the new 603's. hehe. Dispite major concern at why on earth they made the main drive unit smaller, it dosn't seem to matter much. The mid/bass isn't that strong and is lacking right now, but im assuming thats becasue they havent run in at all. Dispite this though...Oh my they sound fantastic in all other areas!

    The detail and imaging is outstanding. Ok so they probably won't have the boomy weightiness of the old ones, but the detail...Oh my GOD!!!!!!!

    Now the 603 are the middle of the range floorstander as the 605 has been scrapped. So it's comforting to know we don't own the bottom of the range model.

    Don't you agree that the lcr600 just sounds phenonemal for a centre? I could'nt belive the difference from the old cc6. I look forward to when both sets of speakers are run in. too bad i have non matching rears. They are the 601 series 2 in black rather than sorrento, but that dosnt matter at all really.

    Ergh, now i have to learn how to setup and integrate my new rel q200. All this in my small bedroom!


    I realise the downgrade in driver size for the 603 is to improve the sound imaging, resolution, detail, responsivness, quality at low volumes. But do you think this may have led to a lack of mid/bass? I hope they didnt compramise mid range richness. Is 6.5 inches enough? Because the old 603 was like the 604 but with one less bass unit. Now the 604 not only has one more bass unit but has all 3 drivers at 7 inch. :(

    Bah! Why can't it be a holiday so i could stay at home and listen all day?!
     
  4. Damian1978

    Damian1978
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    Dave they just keep getting better and better.

    Before I got the 603 S3 I had a demo of the old 603 S2's. I intended to put these with my existing black 601 S2's. They were very bassy and had nice impact but for some reason I thought they were a bit to thumpy, I did'nt get them then and was told they would have the Series 3 in a week and I could get them in Black to match my current speakers (they only had the horrible Teak effect on the Series 2).

    Anyhow I think the finish, build and sound has improved on the Series 3. I can't say that I miss the slightly thumpish bass, the 603's have enough power down low anyway.

    Plus the centre is v.v.v good too. It has a lot of impact and weighs a ton compared to most average £200 centres.

    Simply love these at the moment.

    Turn up and enjoy!

    :cool:
     
  5. dAvE6

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    Yeah i think you're probably right. Any more thumpy and they would probably be TOO thumpy. Considering i now have an amazing sub, the bass is spot on. I was assured by the dealer that the mid range lacking would soon be gone after 50 hours of use. It's often the first thing you notice about non-run in speakers.

    I see you have the NEW 601's as rears? :(

    They are the model thats been most heavily improved. I have the series 2 model, and while the sound output is fine, i'm worried the sound style not match with the fronts and centre. The frontal soundstage is so incredibly detailed and open that they make the 601's sound a bit self absorbed and confined. But then maybe thats just becasue surround sound speakers don't have the same sort of sound as the fronts anyway. Just becasue they are series 2 dosnt make them bad speakers. On the contrary, they are still immense speakers for the price and i'm hoping they will be more than adequate for surrounds in this setup. Do you think they are? It's just so hard to judge how they blend in becasue i can't compare them to the new ones.

    I havent had much experience of dvd movies yet. Perhaps other people would say that the frontal stage is by far the most important part of the setup wit the surrounds being there to give a SUBTLE extra depth to the sound and give the sensation of 3D involvment.

    Hehe,and im also sure stands would help. Right now, one is one a chair facing my ear, and the other is on my bed facing my other ear.


    Any comments?



    P.S (cant wait to get gladiater region 1, that will sound immense)
     
  6. Damian1978

    Damian1978
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    The new 601 S3 seem good and very clear (almost to a point where they are a little obvious as rear speakers) I mainly bought them to "finish" the look of the new system and the fact that my original Series 2 speakers have been driven pretty hard, but seemed none the worse for it.

    The 601 S3 are criminally underused at the moment. I sort of wish B&W made a real budget surround speaker in the same style.

    Anyways, from what I can gather the bass is a bit lower on the S3's and they have braced the inside of the speaker for extra stability (they have done this with all of the new series).

    Refering back to the 603 for a second. They are smaller but about 2kg heavier per speaker!

    :p
     
  7. andyp

    andyp
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    How strange, just been to the B&W website and the S3 range isn’t even on there??!! Or have I missed it?

    Andy P.
     
  8. Piglet

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    I too feel like purchasing them and replacing my existing series 2 version for the same reason: To finish off the new set. Costly but probably worth it considering they will then voice match my 603 s3's and lcr600 centre, plus they have been extensivly improved over the old ones.


    They havent appeard on the website yet, probably due to most retailers not yet having the whole set available. Only one place i contacted had the centre in stock.

    I tottally agree with the posativce comments surrounding the new 603's. they are so much more open and lively but with the same range plus they weigh a ton! Thats why i want to match the rears too. As the frontal sound stage is so detailed, it makes it SO involving and detailed that it feels like its lacking in envelopment around the back soundstage.

    They also look gorgeous and refined. I have the sorento colour, and the yellow and aluminium colours go great together.
     
  9. mlinhares

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    I have 604 S2 and LCR6 S2 connected to a Rotel/TAG, and I want to buy the rear ones. I haven't had the oportunity to test both series side by side. I have a few questions.
    1) Should I buy S3 or should I stick to series 2, and have the same voice?
    2) Is there a cherry finish in the S3?
    3) I'm lacking also a subwoofer, sould I get ASW 2500 or the Rel Strata III?
    Thank's

    Miguel Linhares
     
  10. ReTrO

    ReTrO
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    1)I presume you mean the DS6, which has only had change in it's available finish as far as I can workout.

    2) I think so.

    3) The ASW 2500 is brilliant, ask Jeff.
     
  11. mlinhares

    mlinhares
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    My first question isn't very clear. What I mean is should I buy for surround back channel the series 2 or the new series 3, i. e. 602 S2 vs 602 S3, or 602.5 S3?
    Thank's.
     
  12. ReTrO

    ReTrO
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    Try and get another pair of what you have for your side surrounds. Failing that a pair of 602 S3's should so the job well.
     
  13. andyp

    andyp
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    Forgive me for asking a possibly dumb and slightly off topic question, but why has my CC6 S2 centre speaker got a front mounted cabinet port, yet the new (replacement) LCR60 and LCR600 S3 does not?

    Andy P.
     
  14. ReTrO

    ReTrO
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    I suspect that the bass post was moved to make room for the proper 'nautilus' style tweeter, and it probably impoves the bass response.
     
  15. MarkB

    MarkB
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    I'm contemplating the following speakers for my Denon AVC-A1SE, my room is such that I need to place the Surround Back high up (above a large window) so the 602/602.5 are out of the question. I listen to SACD/DVD-Audio as much as DVD-Video so the Surround L&R are as important as the Front L&R. Bi-Wire facility for all speakers is required.

    'DM603 S3' - Front L&R and Surround L&R
    'LCR600 S3' - Centre, Surround Back L&R.

    (I had thought about 'DM604 S3' for the Front L&R and Surround L&R and could probably stretch to these)

    'REL Q400E' for Sub duties.

    What do you think?
    Mark
     
  16. Jim Robson

    Jim Robson
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    Andy P said "How strange, just been to the B&W website and the S3 range isn’t even on there??!! Or have I missed it?"

    I wondered about this too but B&W say "We are not launching the 600 S3 globally until January the 1st. It is always difficult to set publication dates when products are not available globally on the same date. This is why we have not published the information on the website. You are also right in that the 605 is not being continued in the S3 models range."

    Regards

    Jim [​IMG]
     
  17. TobyJ

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    On the subject of B&W surround set ups, does anyone use the B&W 303s as their rear speakers? - I'd much appreciate anyone's thoughts.

    (I plan to use them in conjunction with Dynaudio 52 front and Dynaudio 42 Centre - I tested the B&W 603s & CM2s extensively, but preferred the Dyn's for stereo sound. However, Dyn don't do a cheap speaker for the rear, and the guy in Audio T has suggested I go for the 303s. I listened and liked but was curious if anyone else used these. OR should I get dedicated 'surround speakers' eg Missions?)

    Cheers

    TobyJ
     
  18. ReTrO

    ReTrO
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    We have used the 303's in several systems as the surround speakers as they work well.

    The CM series of speakers are not the best series that B&W have ever made.
     
  19. Lowrider

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    Just make sure the surrounds you buy go down to the crossover frequency of your receiver, probably 80 hz, or they will sound thin...
     
  20. TobyJ

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    Thanks Retro.

    Lowrider - I'm a bit clueless on the technical side. "Crossover Frequency" - what stats should I be looking at on the specs to determine this? Is it the 'Frequency Response' for the speakers, and which for the Receiver?

    Cheers
     
  21. Lowrider

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    Usually receivers use 80 hz, the THX standard, some, like the Arcam use 100 hz, and others, most of the expensive ones, starting with the Denon 3802 or Onkyo 797 have variable crossover, you can choose... Wich receiver do you have ?

    For the speakers is the frequency response, as you say, from xx hz to y khz +- 3 db, pay attention to the xx hz, the minimum they will go with significant output...
     
  22. TobyJ

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    Thanks Lowrider.

    I don't have the amp yet. It's probably coming down to the Marantz SR4200 or the Denon 1802 (don't think I'll be stretching to the 2802).
     
  23. Lowrider

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    So make sure all speakers go down to 80 hz, at least...
     
  24. RC

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    Has anyone seen the B&W 600 Series 3 speakers for sale on the web? Also, I've read that the ASW 2500 is a good sub, and the B&W web site says it offers continuous 700W output, and weighs 22.7kg. How does this compare with the ASW 1000 sub which has 125W output (I don't think they are measuring like for like) which weighs more, at 30kgs? Any insights?
     
  25. RC

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    Also, has anyone listened to and compared the 601's with the 602's? I'll include the 602.5's in that list because they are simply a set of 601's but put into a floor standing box (both have an operating range of 70hz-22Khz, whereas the 602's go as low as 52hz).

    Once you've bought a set of stands, the 601's are pretty much going to cost as much as the 602.5's anyway, so I don't think there's much between these two apart from personal preference. So, does the 602 offer any benefits beyond the others in terms of musical output?
     
  26. todinks

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    i have the denon 3802 amp and am eagerly awaiting the availability of series 3

    i simply adore the slam bang bass from action movies and need a sub for this purpose, not so much so for music

    its come down to the foll:

    b&w asw1000 vs b&w asw2500 vs rel q400 vs rel storm III

    (1) b&w or rel?

    (2)the b&w1000 and rel storm III are bigger than the other two
    should i go for a big sub...does a big sub give better bass...... space is no constraint

    could anyone pls give me some advice.....
     
  27. Miniholic

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    RC

    I spent ages comparing these speakers before going for the 602.5's as fronts, and 601's for the rears.

    The main stumbling point was whether to go for the 602 or 602.5 for the fronts (LCR60 centre). Eventually I went for the 602.5, but it was close as there was very little in it. In my opinion, the 602.5 sounded a little warmer, whilst the bass on the 602 was tighter.

    I chose the 601's for the rears, and this gives a well balanced system (with Denon 3802 amp), even though i don't have a sub yet (B&W or REL?).

    I also listened to the new 603's, and when funds allow I think these might make a good upgrade for the fronts, moving the 602.5 for rears, and the 601 for surrond back, but I don't have the space for an EX/ES set up at the moment.

    hope this makes sense!

    Ian
     
  28. ronski99

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    RC - I had an audtion between the 601 and the 602.5's the other day. There is no doubting that the 601 are a great speaker but on direct comparison I found the 602.5 to have more control and prescence than the 601's (probably helped by the greter low end repsonse). For me it was enough to go for the 602.5s to act as rears in HC setup - no doubt under utilised but as you state once you have brought the 601s with some stands you are nearly at the cost of the 602.5s.

    todinks - have you considered the Paradigm servo 15? I would love to give one a go but I am a little space (and neighbour) constrained. Check out the reviews on www.audioreview.com

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers

    Aaron
     
  29. Lowrider

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    The RELs are better for music...
     
  30. RC

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    I kind of torturing myself over this as I have something of a flexible budget, but am wanting to get the right trade off between value for money and performance, without going mad and chasing the point of diminishing returns (i.e. more money, less improvement in sound). I don't want to find myself wishing I'd spent that little bit more in a few years time because I've come across a deficit in the speakers. I'm coming from the point of view that speakers don't get upgraded very often if you do the job properly.

    So, I have three questions, and pretty subjective too! Just how good are the B&W604 S3's and what else might I have to consider if I want to take my audio quality upmarket (music, not films is what really matters to me)? Is this product a good optimum between performance and price? Thanks for your help. :blush:
     

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