Whoever joked that he was so old that he just forgot when I bought this up after watching it was pretty spot on the money.
Sure, for a fraction of the budget of the others, they did it the hard way, but you're losing my point a little bit - are Miller and Mangold hacks too? That'd be a bit harsh.
Up until ZSJL, I probably associated Snyder with the death of the DC universe, in my eyes, and the huge missed/wasted opportunity in comparison to the MCU. I wasn't interested in anything else coming from DC.
So he's done some impressive work here, on several levels. Impressive auteur work too, which really is unprecedented at this scale. That might just make him the lesser of two weevils for some, but he's also the guy who pretty-much single-handedly rekindled interest in the DC Universe for many.
That's not nothing.
So I'm not sure why he's such a hack for that, or for doing what other directors (Miller and Mangold, to name just two) have done with respect to presenting odd 'noir' versions of their films, even if they're not for me.
But you really should watch ZSJL...
Anyone interested should checkout the full Hollywood Reporter source article. Nothing shatteringly new, but some much anticipated detail and context. Fisher for the most part gets more respect from sticking to his beliefs, in knowledge he was probably destroying any chance he had for a movie career. Not a Cryborg so much as a man done wrong who fought back with what he had at his disposal, especially as it seems clear his claims against the biased attempts Warner made to sweep it all away, and statements made to smear him, being untrue seem credible. Joss Whedon‘s reputation is irreparable still. Jon Berg and particularly Geoff Johns come out more sympathetic, business suits just caught up in the way Hollywood works, trying to serve their masters and protect their jobs. Geoff Johns actually responds to allegations well, and in this area, Fishers claims are more hyperbole, and Johns rational explanations seem plausible, particularly in context of who he is. The fact he’s written more Cyborg stories than anyone else, Cyborg his favourite character, his decision to put him front and centre in JL for the New 52 relaunch. Plus the details of his current and former partners. This also backs up Walter Hamada trying to telll Fisher he was being unfair dragging Johns into all this.Seems mores coming out about the Whedon reshoots.
Joss Whedon Reportedly Threatened Gal Gadot's Career, Refused Criticism of His Justice League Script - IGNNew allegations of Joss Whedon's misconduct during the making of Justice League have emerged, from both Cyborg actor Ray Fisher and anonymous sources.www.ign.com
Essentially, the whole thing is a complete mess. And it shows that these things (and the state of DC movies at Warners) are very often the result of a number of execs fudgeing up, not necessarily one voice at the top (although they're clearly responsible too). The comms dept releasing the statement about Fisher against specific instructions not to being a good example and one that arguably re-lit the fire under this whole thing.
I also thought the comment from the exec about doing whatever the person in charge of AT&T wanted to be quite telling and not a good sign at all.
There's definitely something highly dysfunctional in the way that Warner's is being run at the moment and I'm not sure that changing a couple of heads at the top is going to fix it. Would not be surprised to see more of a thorough shake-up there in the next year or so.
They need to stop mimicking Marvel and just respect their source material.The problem is, they (kind of) want a connected universe, but the comics manage to achieve that through the role of the Editor in Chief. Feige is essentially the Ed in Chief of the MCU but there's no equivalent in charge of the DC movies. I think they were trying to give that to Geoff Johns, but clearly that's a non-starter now, after reading the article.
They just need someone who likes the comics, respects them - but is first and foremost a movie producer. Johns in the role showed the dangers of him being a creator first and producer second - that just causes problems. They also need to operate separate from Warner movies if they're to have any hope of bringing all this together. The Disney/Marvel/Star Wars template is clearly a successful way of operating huge franchises - they'd do well to mimic that.
But again - from that article, it sounds that there are structural elements in the business that are really preventing them from doing all that.
I also think it's time to abandon the shared universe angle - aim for a multiverse. That can be explained in The Flash and then everyone can do whatever they want - including Snyder.
Thing is there not, Marvel had a long term plan DC seems corbeled together Justice League was rushed rather than introducing the charters only half the team was realy known by than, where as in Avengers Assembled all the big hitter had had there own films and Black Widow was support in Iron Man 2, although Hawkeye only had a brief appearance in Thor but you knew some of his background.They need to stop mimicking Marvel and just respect their source material.
Thing is there not, Marvel had a long term plan DC seems corbeled together Justice League was rushed rather than introducing the charters only half the team was realy known by than, where as in Avengers Assembled all the big hitter had had there own films and Black Widow was support in Iron Man 2, although Hawkeye only had a brief appearance in Thor but you knew some of his background.
But it is the only valid comparison to be made, apart from outliers like Hancock.Also apologies for keep bringing up Marvel and DC together.
When the originally did the Justice League in the comics Batman and Superman were not in it and then when they did were only part times although later became regulars.True. Its like Marvel had a map from the start. DC don't.
I think one of DC's issue was the Nolan trilogy. Its phenomenal success and the fact its not one of the best super hero trilogies of all time but one of the best trilogies of all time put the entire DC-universe in a difficult place.
DC universe is very Batman-orientated. But Nolan's Batman trilogy does not mix well with anything except itself. So one hand, its the the best super hero cinematic experience ever; but on the other hand its a waste of 3 films which can't be mixed and matched with the DCEU.
The Nolan Batman does not fit with the Snyder Superman. Nolan Batman is real, gritty, fully fleshed out. The Snyder Superman is sadly.. just no where near as developed nor realistic in tone. He's inbetween worlds and I'd say the Superman films a clear tier below.
Similar to the Joker film really. The Joker's quality is in a different class to every other DC super hero film and simply won't mix well with JL, Aquaman and Shazam. They are like good PC speakers whilst the Joker (and Nolan series) are like big passive speakers connected to a dedicated power amp and processor lol.
So on one hand, yes DC did a good Joker film. But that Joker film is simply not going to ever integrate into the JL universe. The Joker from the dedicated film would COMPLETELY steal the show in a JL film. Imagine having Phoenix's Joker in the final scene of the Snyder Cut. I'd be mesmerised.
DC really need to set out the tone they want for their films and follow through. The problem is its hard to argue with the cinematic quality of Joker and the Nolan trilogy, but it does lead to wasted time. The alternative is to.. you know.. create Wonder Woman, Aquaman et al. to the same quality.. but I think thats a VERY difficult task (Although they got quite close with Wonderwoman before the first film had severe drop in quality for the latter third).