The GoT Series 8 SPOILER thread - enter at your own peril...

Discussion in 'Game of Thrones Forum' started by KyleS1, May 13, 2019.

  1. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Hence my comment of variables being at play.

    Consider demographics and target audience and my reasoning is logical. You may disagree - and that's okay - but most petitions and negativity is rooted in the same base logic.

    1m viewers of at least 30m (as well as the unverified pirate audience) is still a small portion of the audience whichever way you choose to cut the data.

    Also, unless you avoid all news, I'd say it's hard to dismiss the petition given it's made national press and news programming all week.

    As I keep mentioning as well - the books (should they be finished one day) will almost certainly appease audiences. So long as they're willing to read instead of watch!
     
  2. lucasisking

    lucasisking
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    Snowball effect, mob mentality, and its in vogue right now to hate popular franchises when they do something divisive. Not a mystery to me, it just makes me give a heavy sigh.

    Just a sign of these entitled times. People are somehow under the illusion that getting what they want (whatever that is in this case) is a human right.
     
  3. james03

    james03
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    It’s a counter point of view and polar opposite to your thoughts on the way the show has planned out these past few seasons. That’s all it is, don’t know why you’re so agitated by the fact that many people are a bit riled by it.

    I’m pleased that you are so accepting of the way the show runners have executed their story.
    I’m not, it’s as simple as that.
     
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  4. GadgetObsessed

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    Generally the proportion of people that bother to complain about anything is very low. So you have to bear this in mind when examining the figures. For example, suppose a product has 1% of buyers who complain to the manufacturer. If this 1% is significantly higher than the complaints rate for other similar products, then the 1% is a statistically reliable indicator of a poor product. The manufacturer cannot logically argue that the product is good because the vast majority do not complain.

    Equally with the GoT poll you simply cannot say that because only 1% of the target audience vote a poll, that the poll is by definition unrepresentative. (For example, you can get a statistically significant measure of general election voting intentions from a poll of far less than 0.1% of voters.)

    However, as this particular poll is completely self selecting and is a one sided poll, you equally cannot say that it is representative of the audience as a whole.

    All that you can logically determine from such a poll is that as polls attracting such large numbers of votes criticising a TV series are rare, that the existence of the poll itself is significant and likely represents a significant degree of dissatisfaction. (Even though you cannot extrapolate anything from the 1% to say that X% or a majority are happy or unhappy.)
     
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  5. QuestShield

    QuestShield
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  6. lucasisking

    lucasisking
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    Every tv show, film or any other piece of entertainment ever made will elicit multiple opinions. You and I may disagree on possibly every one of them. I dont have an issue with people being disappointed, let down or even angry. I actually picked apart elements of episode 3 myself, as wll as parts of season 7. Critique and strong opinion is fine and healthy.

    Its when people go beyond that into entitlement that I feel myself getting irritated. The foot stomping, temper tantrums, and daft activism all absolutely reek of the millennial mindset that everyone is owed something that they're not.
     
  7. lucasisking

    lucasisking
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  8. richp007

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    Was joking about this season with a few old uni mates this weekend, and I think over the summer I'll actually have a stab at rewriting Episode 3 the way I think it should have gone. Laid out in script form. Just for my own curiosity mainly, but I'll chuck it out on here too if anyone wants a read.

    Just need to dig out my old Final Draft programme first! It's been a while!
     
  9. doug56hl

    doug56hl
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    Getting what you have paid for is a normal consumer expectation backed up for goods and services by legal rights. Now you may say that no one has paid for season 8, that HBO subscription fees will provide much other content people may be happy with and you'ld be right.

    However if people have bought into GOT via say buying the previous seasons DVDs/blu-rays/streaming they may reasonably have the expectation that what they have bought into with their money and time will be concluded satisfactorily with the same things that characterised earlier seasons. Good dialogue, good plotting, etc etc.

    All of the earlier story complexities and intrigue apparently just comes down to a resolution of 'power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Ah you may say, but it's not the destination but the journey along the way. With this I'd agree as the journey in seasons 1-6 was mostly worth the entrance fee, but with Seasons 7 and especially 8 the magical mystery tour ended up in a disappointing destination for some. As there is no Trip Advisor equivalent to express that dissatisfaction about the tour the petition serves the same purpose.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  10. lucasisking

    lucasisking
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    I beg to differ, sir. The 'product' is the show itself, which has been delivered as promised. There is never any guarantee that one will enjoy it. Again, noone has the 'right' to be entertained. That bit is up to the consumer.


    Which are subjective. No contract has therefore been broken. Try again.
     
  11. QuestShield

    QuestShield
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    My primary indisputible problem with this season is that is it too rushed. However that was always on the cards, squeezing so much plot into 6 (longer) episodes. Some disappointments, some great moments, not as good as previous seasons but still top entertainment, certainly doesn't deserve the lambasting and a bloody petition of hate and entitlement.. over a TV show.
    People missed to learn to get over things, move on, especially when those things are out of their control.
     
  12. doug56hl

    doug56hl
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    I didn't say contract, I said expectation. Some peoples expectations of season 8 having similar quality to previous GOT seasons have apparently been broken going by some reactions.
    As Heath Ledger’s Joker once said, “It’s not about the money, it’s about sending a message.” And I think this message is one of frustration and disappointment at its core.
    About the petition

    Try again with another strawman arguement...;)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  13. QuestShield

    QuestShield
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    What will the message achieve, is it a way of letting D&D or HBO know the viewers dissatisfaction in order for them up their game for Star Wars or for a better written GoT prequel than season 8?
    Because a redone 8th season ain't ever happening..
     
  14. Lights 31

    Lights 31
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    Wow, what a load of codswallop. It's an art form, something created, which some people will and won't like. It's subjective.

    No one has a divine right for it to be exactly how they want it or to even like it.

    No matter what the writers came up with, people wouldn't like it, even if GRRM finishes the books, people won't like that either.
     
  15. doug56hl

    doug56hl
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    Agreed.
    I doubt anyone who signed it (including the petition originator) seriously expects the petition will achieve what it asks for and thus it's perhaps more of a warning shot across the bows to HBO that they better up their game for the prequels. That these are not guaranteed sucess simply by riding on the coattails of GOT.

    And also perhaps to Disney that they should be keeping more of an eye on D&D's new Star Wars efforts than they might originally have expected to, even considering the disappointing box office figures for Solo Star Wars Franchise Box Office History - The Numbers
    As @Hillskill noted "The plan was perfect. Hire the show runners on the biggest show in history and announce them as your new Star Wars helmers just as the penulitmate episode goes to air. What could possibly go wrong!?"

    Personally my interest is more along the lines of the phrase coined, according to wikipedia, by Evelyn Beatrice Hall "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" which she seemingly said as a paraphrase of Voltaire's words in the Essay on Tolerance — "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too."
    I doubt Voltaire would be saying 'dickheads' and 'entitled millenials' to those he disagreed with....
     
  16. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Indeed! Which is a better way of getting across what I articulated less concisely ;)

    I imagine most aren't fussed really though.
     
  17. Qactuar

    Qactuar
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    Anyways this is a discussion thread including spoilers et al. Wonder if a separate thread to discuss the relative merits of the Series 8 storytelling is in order?
     
  18. doug56hl

    doug56hl
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    You are of course entitled to that opinion.

    Even art forms are products subject to market forces. They are bought and sold like any other product. If subjectively people don't like the product they won't 'buy' it, although that can change over time as the paintings of Van Gogh shows. In his lifetime he apparently only sold one painting (for $2,000 in 2018 prices) but now just 9 of his paintings have realised over $900 million as of their last sales figures.

    Bringing it back to the art form you mention, there are many examples of cancelled TV programs and movies which never got the expected sequels due to people subjectively not liking the product.

    But just like with van Gogh some of these art forms have similarily enjoyed greater sucess than they initially had. Star Trek for example; cancelled after 3 seasons despite several petitions and letter writing campaigns to keep it going, disappeared for many years, and then the concept bounced back with 13 movies and numerous spin off shows.
     
  19. doug56hl

    doug56hl
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    Possibly. Although as any discussion of the merits of the story telling in season 8 will necessarily include spoilers as examples, is there a need for two spoiler threads?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  20. Hillskill

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    I'm genuinely rooting for the show tonight. I've made my opinions clear on the writing this season so I won't bang that drum again. For me it has been the most ambitious TV show of all time and it's delivered in spades. Whatever we get tonight it has been one hell of a ride!
     
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  21. KyleS1

    KyleS1
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    Agreed. Let’s all remember it’s a tv show, it’s not Brexit. It’s been an amazing journey and certainly better than any other shows I’ve watched. Regardless of the things I’ve not liked, they’ve still done an amazing job and each episode is a spectacle than not many others will live up to.
     
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  22. lucasisking

    lucasisking
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    Shall we talk about language and insults? How about the video posted earlier in which a YouTuber picks apart one of the episodes using "**** off", "**** you", and "**** this piece of **** show" after each sentence. The comments section is full of language like that from 'fans' (your petition signers) full of equal bile and foul mouthed vitriol aimed at the showrunners and anyone defending them. It's the same across countless videos, blogs and social media posts. One even suggested that David Benioff and D. B. Weiss deserve to be 'burned' for what they've 'done' to the show. These two writers have given us the best fantasy TV show of all time (yes they wrote the first four seasons too), and that's their reward?

    I have to ask you, do you think people who behave in this disgusting, spoiled and ungrateful way actually deserve better? This appears to be the argument: "we deserve better".
     
  23. Hillskill

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    @lucasisking it’s simply part of pop culture. Not sure why you are getting your knickers in a twist over how some people choose to express their opinions. We have platforms such as YouTube and the beauty is anyone, anywhere can create content. Yes it’s extreme and it’s ignorant but we could find examples of this behaviour directed at any subject you can think if

    How do you find time in the day to be upset at every moron you find on the internet?
     
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  24. lucasisking

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    Yeah perhaps I'm overreacting. I've just never known pop culture to be this toxic before, in all my years as a genre fan. I just find it sad that people spend more time hating and deriding everything, rather than appreciating it. I kind of feel that we are living in the best time ever for fantasy entertainment in TV games and movies- yet we seem unhappier than ever.
     
  25. Greg Hook

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    It’s the sense of entitlement that social media gives everyone these days.
     
  26. richp007

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    I hope you all realise this is it for us after tonight. The final episode is going to cause an extinction level event.

    When I wake up in the morning I fully expect to be playing the role of Viggo Mortensen in The Road.
     
  27. doug56hl

    doug56hl
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    Although not having seen this or the context it was in, it may not mean what you may think it meant. Some alternative slang meanings of burned which don't involve them being hauled out by a lynch mob, flambéed by Drogon, or burnt at the stake like Shireen:
    1. insulted
    2. suffer financial loss
    Unless it can be shown all 1,081,712 petition signers have behaved in the manner you've described then yes, they probably deserve better than being insulted by those who don't agree with the petition. Innocent until proven guilty. Even if it was 50,000 of them doing the insults towards D&D that's still less than 5% of the total.

    I've also seen many times the argument from both fans and reviewers: "Game of Thrones deserved better".
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  28. lucasisking

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  29. xxGBHxx

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    Indeed.

    The most frustrating part of this whole "situation" is I shouldn't be here. I shouldn't be angry at what they've done to GoT. I do wish I could just shrug it off and go "well whatever" and just accept it for what it is. But as he points out it's hard when I have 7 years of viewing without doubt the best TV ever made (IMHO) and see what Season 8 is.

    I can understand that people like it and that's more power to them. In a way I'm envious of those who CAN watch it and not get angry. But that's not me I'm afraid.

    For me it's become by FAR the biggest disappointment I've ever had watching anything ever and it makes me angry and annoyed because right now I should be in TV heaven loving every single minute of every singe one of these episodes. Instead, I'm here ranting on a forum about it while watching endless videos of other people ranting about it.

    My life is clearly hollow and sad - thanks D&D for making that so clear ;)

    G
     
  30. nickj1000

    nickj1000
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    I have to say that I am a little relieved as I was expecting before the beginning of the season to be watching the show at 2.00 am every monday morning here in the UK and I was a bit worried about losing my job. Now thanks to the Show Directors I have no problem waiting until Monday night to see it or even Tuesday night mainly out of curiosity now and to get it over and done with. Either way it has been one of the best shows ever, I rank it with Lost and Breaking Bad certainly but those shows i feel although they had their ups and downs gave satisfying conclusions. Not sure at all about GOT.

    However , No matter what whether you be angry, sad or excited about the last episode MAY THE LORD OF LIGHT BE WITH YOU :)
     

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