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maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
I'm interested to see what people think the PL and CL would look like if there wasn't FFP.

I'd put money on PSG and City winning pretty much everything in sight because they could easily outspend anyone. You'd be seeing £200mil transfers regularly. And people say that money is ruining the game but then blow their load when a team gets pulled up for blatantly trying to break the rules. Does anyone really want to see 2 teams dominate for as long as their owners feel like being involved? That's just creating another set of elite clubs that nobody could challenge
Unless they get better owners, FFP is holding back other clubs from been bought by large investors because they can’t use their win money, so the established clubs at the top, Barca, Madrid, Munich, United, Liverpool and certain Italian teams can carry on the cartel. Funny how FFP is only introduced once City and PSG emerge, never been a concern before. City have zero debt, United £500 million, serviceable debt but never the less debt. If City decided to go and get a £1 billion loan at 0% from a bank and pay back over say 20 years would that meet FFP, they could afford it.
 

gamerste

Well-known Member
Jealousy everywhere tonight, it’s our money why can’t we spend it, that’s the whole argument right there. As for stripping titles its all pre 2014 so it would be one, if they dared, which I very much doubt.
I don't follow a specific football team so for me it's not tribal.
So no jealously at all.
I wanted spurs to win the CL last year and I would like to see Liverpool win the league this year.
Also would be incredible for Sheff United to get into the CL.
The argument is the rules, you have broken them on multiple occasions.
Your happy to take the CL money though to help circumvent these rules.
You've set up fake sponsorship deals to get around said rules
 

maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
What are the EU going to do?
Especially for a British club post brexit ?
It's a competition and the competition has rules for you to play in that competition you have to abide to those rules.

Saying they are going to CAS and doing it is another matter.
When they go to CAS everything gets put into the public domain.
I think there is so much evidence and dodgy dealings that they won't want that evidence out in the public domain.
Just my opinion
FFP is against EU regulations on business practices, it is a set of rules agreed by the teams but is not law, you cannot go against EU law, if City challenge it, there is a good chance it can be stopped.
 

maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
If City have deliberately circumvented the rules, why shouldn't they be punished? If a team fielded ineligibile players or 12 players in a game, we'd expect them to be punished.

After being convicted of a crime, it's a little rich to question the legality of it..

With the resources at City's disposal we'd have to guess they knew the rules and either tried to cheat them and failed, or completely ignored the rules. Either way you look at it they're guilty and deserve to be punished.

Unless the rules themselves are illegal or whatever, in which case why not challenge them before you're charged with breaking them?
City had to wait fir the ruling from uefa before they can appeal
 

TayWax

Distinguished Member
FFP is against EU regulations on business practices, it is a set of rules agreed by the teams but is not law, you cannot go against EU law, if City challenge it, there is a good chance it can be stopped.
But UEFA make the rules. Its their competition. Id be surprised if it was against the law to pick a football up and run with it but it does break the laws of the game and you do get punished for it
 

Donnacha

Distinguished Member
My thoughts as a 50 year old City fan who’s followed through the dark days until now, **** UEFA, they have been after us since the takeover, as @JimmyMac states the elite don’t want their cartel breaking that’s the only reason FFP was brought in. Most City fans can’t stand the competition it’s not sour grapes it’s the pushing of a trophy we don’t care about and the treatment of fans e.g. Moscow game. Maybe come back in 20 years when we‘ve had countless domestic successes.
Today UEFA have been judge, jury and executioner, City have not been allowed to respond in any way to the illegally obtained emails etc. City will now go to CAS, with the biggest and best legal team you can buy, this can end in one of three ways.
CAS uphold the ban City banned for two years, this will then lead to City putting everything into the domestic season, ominous for the rest of the league. City fans hate UEFA.
CAS uphold the ban but suspended it, City fans still hate the competition anyway.
CAS outright dismiss it, this will then lead to City blowing FFP apart, potentially opening the floodgates for us and PSG to go to town on signings and wages etc that no one compete with, Newcastle may even get in on the act with the Saudis. City fans still hate UEFA.
The talk of Pep leaving etc, he’s still under contract, same with the players, so unless they have specific clauses written in to say they can go then they ain’t going anywhere. More problematic would be the bringing in of other players but that would be short sighted on their side, because if they think we wont come back stronger they are wrong.
It would be ironic if we won the thing this year, not been able to defend it, great PR that, we would be mentioned in every game until the end of that competition.
My thoughts on all this.........you're 50 ?? :eek:
 

maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
But UEFA make the rules. Its their competition. Id be surprised if it was against the law to pick a football up and run with it but it does break the laws of the game and you do get punished for it
you can’t have something that goes against a law regardless of whether its your competition or not, it’s like saying you can’t have any black players because it’s our competition and we don’t want them. Have a read of this and the findings, if City can prove it’s anti competitive they could have a strong case. It would certainly tie up uefa for years anyway.
we may be banNed for 2 years but we will still get back in before United :laugh:
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Unless they get better owners, FFP is holding back other clubs from been bought by large investors because they can’t use their win money, so the established clubs at the top, Barca, Madrid, Munich, United, Liverpool and certain Italian teams can carry on the cartel. Funny how FFP is only introduced once City and PSG emerge, never been a concern before. City have zero debt, United £500 million, serviceable debt but never the less debt. If City decided to go and get a £1 billion loan at 0% from a bank and pay back over say 20 years would that meet FFP, they could afford it.
I think FFP should have been the starting point to a much bigger dissection of the game. However I realise I'm living in a dream world where the authorities actually care about the integrity of the game.

Sorry to always use them, but Utd is a classic example of where a club is not being run in the interests of the club or fans who support it. And then further down you have the cases of the likes of Bury. And if stories are believed, many Championship clubs in their pursuit of a PL place are operating well beyond their means.

Could be a bubble about to burst for those without the financial muscle to take the impact.
 

maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
It seems many fans of other clubs are now realising exactly what FFP means, they won’t be getting invested in anytime soon, why would a rich owner come in when they can’t use their own money. Newcastle were licking their lips at the Saudis coming in but why, do they think they can suddenly go buy Mbappe, not a chance, have a look at who would’ve won the premier league since 2010 and apart from the miracle of Leicester it’s the same teams, United, Chelsea, Liverpool, is that fir the good of the game? Or just to keep the elite there and nit allow anyone else at the top table.
They want to deduct City points, so what, if we aren’t qualifying for a Europe it makes no difference to us it just hands the next two titles to Liverpool because no one else is getting near currently. Also a few years ago Liverpool got around FFP because they didn’t qualify for Europe does that mean City can now spend what they want in preparation for two seasons time? Interesting times ahead no doubt, I’ll still be going every week ill still support my team.
 

TayWax

Distinguished Member
How many billionaire owners do you think there are that are willing to pump their own money in to clubs to make them successful? A handful at most. And most of them likely to be using the club for sport washing rather than any actual interest in the club. Precisely the reason I don't want the Saudi's anywhere near my club. Amazing how many fans don't give a sh*t about any of that as long as their club spend all the money in the world though.

On City as well, the sheer level of arrogance from city's owners, its no wonder rival fans are enjoying the ride. They think they can just buy their way out of any situation, and reading up it looks like they didn't even try and hide most of their dodgy deals. It's why a fine is absolutely pointless in this instance.
 

maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
But that handful would change the dynamics of the game forever, the champions league is done in such a way the same teams inevitably qualify for the knockout stages, why, because those teams are the best supported and people want to see them. So if say Genk get bought by Saudi based billionaire and are constantly getting through TV at the expense of say Barcelona, TV audiences drop, so does revenue.
If uefa want to deny this then make the champions league a straight draw, first 6 teams go in pot A etc, they wouldn’t do the that as you could have Madrid Barca Munich juventus Liverpool in the sane group, big names go out in the group stages is no good for the brand.
I see you use sportswashing a term coined by certain so called sports journalists like McKenna and Delaney and their agendas against Middle Eastern owners, a lot smacks of racism and they have been called out to proven many times that City is state owned and time and again have failed.
Other fans are loving it because it’s the British way to not like success, how dare those dirty Arabs come over here spend their own money to want to build something, whilst other owners just take money out a club to finance their other projects or run their clubs into the ground until there isn’t a club anymore.
Having seen what ADUG have done for City over the last 12 years I know who I’d rather have in charge of running my club, again you’ll never see it again unless FFP is scrapped. So the next winners of the league will only ever be a handful of clubs and the same goes for champions league, how boring is that?
There are many well supported clubs who with that boost Everton, Villa, Newcastle who with investments could challenge but it won’t happen, even before this decision UEFA we’re looking at ways to get big teams who had fallen behind Milan United by going off past glories into the competition.
 

TayWax

Distinguished Member
So are you saying that the UAE doesn't have a terrible track record for human rights abuse and they are just victims of racism?
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
But that handful would change the dynamics of the game forever, the champions league is done in such a way the same teams inevitably qualify for the knockout stages, why, because those teams are the best supported and people want to see them. So if say Genk get bought by Saudi based billionaire and are constantly getting through TV at the expense of say Barcelona, TV audiences drop, so does revenue.
If uefa want to deny this then make the champions league a straight draw, first 6 teams go in pot A etc, they wouldn’t do the that as you could have Madrid Barca Munich juventus Liverpool in the sane group, big names go out in the group stages is no good for the brand.
I see you use sportswashing a term coined by certain so called sports journalists like McKenna and Delaney and their agendas against Middle Eastern owners, a lot smacks of racism and they have been called out to proven many times that City is state owned and time and again have failed.
Other fans are loving it because it’s the British way to not like success, how dare those dirty Arabs come over here spend their own money to want to build something, whilst other owners just take money out a club to finance their other projects or run their clubs into the ground until there isn’t a club anymore.
Having seen what ADUG have done for City over the last 12 years I know who I’d rather have in charge of running my club, again you’ll never see it again unless FFP is scrapped. So the next winners of the league will only ever be a handful of clubs and the same goes for champions league, how boring is that?
There are many well supported clubs who with that boost Everton, Villa, Newcastle who with investments could challenge but it won’t happen, even before this decision UEFA we’re looking at ways to get big teams who had fallen behind Milan United by going off past glories into the competition.
That's all good and well. But not at all relevant to what City have done. They knew the rules and went out of their way to break them.
 

chopples

Well-known Member
Assuming Liverpool win the league there will have been 5 different title winners in the last decade.

The previous 20 years of the epl era it was just united, arsenal and Chelsea winning, the outlier being Blackburn ofc. How is that any better? I would argue that without ffp Leicester wouldn’t have won the league,City would have just thrown the kitchen sink at it
 

maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
So are you saying that the UAE doesn't have a terrible track record for human rights abuse and they are just victims of racism?
No but City isn’t owned by UAE and those hacks are constantly lumping the two together to fit their agenda, it’s like saying the Glazers are responsible for Guantanamo.
 

maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
Assuming Liverpool win the league there will have been 5 different title winners in the last decade.

The previous 20 years of the epl era it was just united, arsenal and Chelsea winning, the outlier being Blackburn ofc. How is that any better? I would argue that without ffp Leicester wouldn’t have won the league,City would have just thrown the kitchen sink at it
Or Leicester and other teams could’ve got investment and thrown their own kitchen sinks at it!
 

TayWax

Distinguished Member
No but City isn’t owned by UAE and those hacks are constantly lumping the two together to fit their agenda, it’s like saying the Glazers are responsible for Guantanamo.
Its not really the same is it. Mansour is a part of the royal family and I think he is the deputy prime minister. If United was owned by George Bush I could maybe agree with you
 

maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
Its not really the same is it. Mansour is a part of the royal family and I think he is the deputy prime minister. If United was owned by George Bush I could maybe agree with you
Yet he is a businessman using his own money, it does not come from the state.
I wonder what posters if different clubs on here now think will happen over the next few seasons as the same teams win the same competitions over and over, with little chance of their teams been able to compete because of FFP. The rich will get richer especially if they expand the champions league, a possible European super league created and everyone else left behind.
Great for those in it, but the rest will be a championship mark 2. I love the premier league playing all the clubs around our country,imagine not been able to that because your away game is juventus on a Tuesday night then Barca the week after, how many fans will be going to that?
 

TayWax

Distinguished Member
Yet he is a businessman using his own money, it does not come from the state.
I wonder what posters if different clubs on here now think will happen over the next few seasons as the same teams win the same competitions over and over, with little chance of their teams been able to compete because of FFP. The rich will get richer especially if they expand the champions league, a possible European super league created and everyone else left behind.
Great for those in it, but the rest will be a championship mark 2. I love the premier league playing all the clubs around our country,imagine not been able to that because your away game is juventus on a Tuesday night then Barca the week after, how many fans will be going to that?
That's exactly what was happening anyway. Only with City at the top of the pile winning regularly and cornering the market.

Having certain teams with endless pots of money is not the way to even the playing field. FFP is a good idea poorly implemented.
 

maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
I'm genuinely not.sure, UEFA will want to make a stand here, AC Milan took CAS to court and didn't win, at best the ban will be reduced to 1 year imo.
That depends on what evidence City produce, uefa wouldn’t let them present a document to clear themselves because it would’ve took them over the 5 year rule. It’s coming to light that the emails hacked were heavily redacted so they may well get presented in full to prove no wrong doing. It’s also rumoured uefa asked City to take a small fine a few weeks ago to help uefa save face City flatly refused because it would be an admission of guilt, this is not as cut and dried as some hope it is, also the league will do nothing until it’s sorted because they can’t deduct points if we are found innocent if they even can.
 

maverick177uk

Distinguished Member
That's exactly what was happening anyway. Only with City at the top of the pile winning regularly and cornering the market.

Having certain teams with endless pots of money is not the way to even the playing field. FFP is a good idea poorly implemented.
Haven’t won the champions league there will be 5 winners of the league in last 10 years, not exactly cornering the market, nothing said when united winning it 3 years on the trot or winning the treble!
Madrid 3 back to back champions leagues debt wtitten off by dodgy training ground sale to government La Liga president big Madrid fan pushing uefa to punish PSG and City, FFP setup by Platini sacked for corruption.
Man City owner spends own money to build a global brand, club not in debt, world class trading facility built, regeneration in the same surrounding area, yep we are the bad guys.
 

TwoJs

Distinguished Member
That depends on what evidence City produce, uefa wouldn’t let them present a document to clear themselves because it would’ve took them over the 5 year rule. It’s coming to light that the emails hacked were heavily redacted so they may well get presented in full to prove no wrong doing. It’s also rumoured uefa asked City to take a small fine a few weeks ago to help uefa save face City flatly refused because it would be an admission of guilt, this is not as cut and dried as some hope it is, also the league will do nothing until it’s sorted because they can’t deduct points if we are found innocent if they even can.
Either way whatever happens if you get off or not, it's deeply embarrassing for the club your owners and everyone involved with City. It makes your club look a laughing stock to the rest of the football league, not that I doubt most City fans will care about that with what you have won.
 

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