1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Gadget Show £100k Linn System

Discussion in 'TV Show Forum' started by alancolledge, Jun 15, 2004.

  1. alancolledge

    alancolledge
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2004
    Messages:
    518
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Middle England
    Ratings:
    +5
    Did anyone catch the Gadget show on Channel 5 yesterday?

    It had a rather interesting blindfold comparison where an entry level Linn system, a £100,000 ultimate Linn system and the same bloke on the test cd actually singing in the same room where played to one of the presenters.

    He identified the sources all right and from his commentary, reading between the lines, could clearly spot the live singing.

    Makes you think, if a 100k Linn system can't come close to a live sound, the majority of our high end equipment on the forums wouldn't have much of a chance?
     
  2. captaindobie

    captaindobie
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    579
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Scotland
    Ratings:
    +17
    Aah, missed this. Do channel 5 repeat the program?
    Will never be rich enough to own Linn, but would have found this quite interesting.
     
  3. dustjunky

    dustjunky
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Messages:
    69
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yeah it's repeated at 11:45pm on Friday

    oh - and 9.25am wednesday :)
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,982
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,786
    Did they make a recording of the live singer then play it back or was it a previous recording?

    Gordon
     
  5. bjd

    bjd
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    2,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    N. Ireland
    Ratings:
    +176
    Shame they used a cd12 instead of a sorted LP12 ;)
     
  6. bjd

    bjd
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    2,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    N. Ireland
    Ratings:
    +176
    The guy sang live...just vocals.......and the same song from one of his cds was played back using two different Linn systems
     
  7. huwg

    huwg
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,850
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +121
    The man actually sang - as a recording of him singing would need to be played back in a hi-fi setup which would defeat the object.

    spoilers

    He was able to spot the entry level system because he described a start and stop to the sound. He said there was a machine like quality to it.
    The live performance was spotted easily 'If that is comming from a Hi-Fi, then I want it'.

    He found 100K system to be very close to the live performance.

    On the whole, the 100K system was better than the entry level one, but in his opinion he could not justify the extra outlay (ie was not 100 times better).
    But he could understand why many people do go to such extremes and expense.

    There was then a competition to win an entry level Linn setup.
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,982
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,786
    If the guy sang then they played back a recording of song from one of his CD's then that is a completely irrelevant demonstration of how accurate the playback of the sysem is.

    If they recorded the guy singing his song while they were listening, then played back a recording of that exact piece and compared those it would be a much better comparison.

    I'm not defending Linn just saying that the their demo is just fluff and merely entertainment rather than anything to consider as particularily valid.

    Gordon
     
  9. mikeq

    mikeq
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I thought it was a very valid and fair test.

    The chap was a well known scottish folk singer(apparently), the song was purely him singing(no music) both live and on the recording. So they were exactly the same.

    The point with these high end systems is that they are not supposed to add or take anything away from the sound, so in theory should sound exactly the same as if someone was in the room singing the song. Hence the test.

    The chap doing the blind test said there was just something in the live performance which wasn't captured by the gear, he did say the £100k system was very very close and that if he had the cash he would have bought it because it was almost as good as having the real thing.

    He also said that whilst the £100k system was better than the cheaper system it certainly wasn't 60 times better.

    Mike
     
  10. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2003
    Messages:
    14,304
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +849
    I don't think I can afford even an entry Linn system. :(

    It was a good show though.
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    13,982
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,786
    Different performances of same song in different venues.....and that's valid...mmmm?

    Gordon
     
  12. MartinImber

    MartinImber
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Messages:
    3,851
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Worcester
    Ratings:
    +21
    I saw SACD on a display
     
  13. rufus t firefly

    rufus t firefly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    To actually get the vocal onto cd there would have to be a recording room, with a mic going into a pre amp probably through a compressor then onto a master tape of some sort before being transferred to cd, all of which would affect the sound even before the test was done. Thats assuming there was no extra pre or post production carried out on his voice. The voice was probably the worst choice for that kind of test because there is so much variation in its tone and inflections from one day to the next. Still cool to see big toys though.
     
  14. huwg

    huwg
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,850
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +121
    well, now I've heard a 100K Linn system , I can honestly say it doesn't sound much better than my Sony TV :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  15. the_pauley

    the_pauley
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +198
    :confused:

    I think the crackle of stylus in groove and the hint of wow and rumble that even the highest of high end turntables are subject to - let alone the colouration caused by the compression and equalization required to produce the vinyl master - might have slightly tipped him off that it was a recording he was listening too.

    Linn's SACD/HDCD recordings are digital throughout the entire production chain, so the vinyl / analogue version can only be a second rate version compared to the little silver disc.
     
  16. alancolledge

    alancolledge
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2004
    Messages:
    518
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Middle England
    Ratings:
    +5
    If this is the case what are we doing buying such expensive kit to reproduce as faithfull a rendition as possible? If the recording is floored because processes are added then we're on a hiding to nothing to start with?

    I have often closed my eyes and listned to acoustic music and wondered how different it would sound if I was magically transported to when the recording was done. Never mind frequency responses, power and speaker placement just how accurate a system sounds.

    I agree that the test was not 100% scientific but I believe it came close enough to explain what we all buy hifi for.
     
  17. General Skanky

    General Skanky
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    4,206
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Ratings:
    +44
    I saw it too. Good fun.

    What got me was when he said a 1000 people a year buy that £100K system.

    Where do all these rich people live?
     
  18. Garrett

    Garrett
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    32,316
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    The best thief you’ll never see.
    Ratings:
    +4,219
    I was going to get one but they do not do it in black. :laugh:
     
  19. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,051
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,129
    So they get at least two or three orders per day for the 100K system

    Their turnover on that setup alone is £100 million a year?

    Why would they bother selling any other kit.

    Give me a break.
     
  20. bjd

    bjd
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    2,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    N. Ireland
    Ratings:
    +176
    I think there is a misunderstanding here. I don't think the 1000 per year was referring to the particular Linn system used, but to hi-end HiFi in that price bracket. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that at least that many systems costing that much are sold per year.
     
  21. DJW

    DJW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    965
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    Saw a similar demo years ago, by Tannoy, in the Bristol Hi Fi show. In this case though they had a bloke playing a saxaphone which flitted between him live & then a recording. Very hard to tell the switch, so very impressive.

    From memory they were using Tannoy Westminsters ? ....huge things that could shake your organs on the low notes :laugh:

    Ref affording Linn systems, I built mine up s/h. £1800 CD players & pre amps go for about £500 s/h, plus £1k speakers for approx £300 & £750 amps for approx £200. Great value for money at those prices :smashin:

    Dave
     
  22. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    FWIW, I dont want a live rock band in my living room ! Once had a female Opera singer start up during a drunken Friday night, because everyone kept asking her to sing.........then they wish they hadnt asked :oops: you might think that your system with its massive subwoofers and dynamic speakers can sound scary..but believe me.... hell hath no fury like a female Opera singer at full speed in your living room.

    I too have listened to the Tannoy Westminsters playing, that was an orchestral piece, the dynamics were amazing, very real. Still doesnt sound like a full orchestra at work.

    I dont want a full scale Orchestra in my room, just something that captures the esscence of the music, the emotion etc. So its irrelevant if a 100K linn system doesnt sound like the live vocal.

    This is where HiFi falls down, reviewers are constantly banging on about the sound being as realistic as being there..pleeez, nothing sounds like that.

    You should listen to a system in the same way as you would choose a painting or Photograph, it should fit with your surroundings and personal taste (providing you have any).

    You could of course just rent your favourite musician or band for the evening, thats the ultimate hifi statement.
     
  23. DJW

    DJW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    965
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    Full agree. Used to have a NAIM system that was a bit to in your face. Went for the Linn system because I liked that "sound".
    Best test I found is when you put a CD on to listen to a specific track & you end up listening to the whole album :smashin: . When this happens you've found the system that suits you, regardless of cost.
     
  24. FoxyMulder

    FoxyMulder
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
  25. the_pauley

    the_pauley
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Ratings:
    +198
  26. bfrench

    bfrench
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    138
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    surrey
    Ratings:
    +3
    I watched a recording of this today and It occoured to me that any one could tell the difference between a guy singing at you effectivley in mono and any stereo system with 2 speakers 8 feet apart!! :devil:
     
  27. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    Not sure if you really meant this as a wind up...........just incase, two speakers 8' apart are called Stereo, they create a single central image :lesson: but you knew that....................right?
     
  28. DJW

    DJW
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    965
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    Maybe they were out of phase :laugh:
     
  29. alle v

    alle v
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    211
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Derbyshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    ...Just from listening to it on TV there did seem to be a difference between each performance. Whether that was actual intended or something to do with it being a broadcast I don't know.

    They mentioned the top system not actually 'starting' before the voice cut in but it did seem as though you could tell something was already 'playing' ie a recoding had started.
    The live one did just start though...obviously :)

    Even the cheap system will sound good when you have nothing for an instant comparison.
     
  30. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,051
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,129
    How many ears have you got ?
     

Share This Page

Loading...