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The future of LCD...guessing and advising...

daxie

Standard Member
What do you think will be the roadmap for mid/highend the coming months?

As I see it we currently have a good mainstream 32" 1368x768 standard...
Also some 37" and 40" decent ones that have the same resolution, but for most people they look like they need a tad more...

Currently we have no support for 1080p, not in mainstream, not in high-end...

How do you think prices, sizes and resolutions will evolve in the coming months to one year?

Will current quality 32-37" 1368*768/720p/1080i screens' prices fall to below £500-600? What will be the time span you think before the first 1080p (for example the Barco's mentioned in the other post) will reach levels below £1800?
What is the use of higher res 1080i panels, such as the philips, for which you currently pay an exorbant price, and seem useless with the lack of 1080p support?
Will television/movies evolve to 720p/1080i/1080p?

Would you advise the average man-in-the-street who doesn't want to buy new technology ever 3-4 years to get an LCD right now, or wait? And how long? Till what point? Will 1080p be the maximum for the coming 10 years?

Just give your thoughts...

daxie
 

tugboatbill

Standard Member
Hi daxie, interesting thread - I found the following info yesterday which may be relevant.

Toshiba announces more info on its upcoming SED screens – Home Cinema Choice Toshiba has been showing off its first screens using SED ("Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display") technology. Developed jointly by Toshiba and Canon, SED technology claims to merge the benefits of conventional CRTs with the advantages of modern LCDs and plasma displays. And at this year's IFA show in Berlin Toshiba revealed more details on what the first SED products will be like. Likely to launch before the end of next year at a price likely to be slightly above that of LCD technology, the first commercial product will carry full HDTV 1920x1080 resolution. Also, extremely fast response times should deliver the smear-free motion familiar from CRT monitors rather than the smearing problems seen with LCD. Without the need for any backlighting, SED also claims to deliver impressively bright, natural colors at high resolution and with sharp contrast – as well as distortion-free regardless of the viewing angle. The first panels to hit the market will have a 50in visible diagonal size and, in Toshiba's own words, the key points of SED as it enters its commercial phase look like this:

* Ultra-flat design
* High contrast
* Razor-sharp moving pictures thanks to fast response times
* Natural colours due to the use of phosphor coating with the same attribute as CRT
* No backlighting needed, so no distortion even from acute view angles
* Accurate convergence, geometry and linearity owing to direct pixel addressing
* Low power consumption
 

Doctor Hades

Well-known Member
SED technology must be the same one I've been hearing about that works like CRT but instead of the tube being a foot long, it's just 2mm! :eek:

It sounds like SED could replace LCD technology provided the price is right.
 
F

featherbrain

Guest
Samsung's new OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode) technology, mmm ...
 

tugboatbill

Standard Member
How about Samsung's "colour reviving panel" in the short term future?

Samsung unveils its natural 'color reviving' LCD panel – Display Bank Samsung Electronics has released a new type of LCD panel that can provide colors close to nature's. Samsung Electronics said on September 19th that it had developed a 40-inch and a 46-inch TV LCD panel that enhanced the color gamut by approximately 30% from its previous LCD's, and has started to provide them to customers. The company has changed the fluorescent substance in the CCFL (Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp), which is used as an illumination source for the backlight, to express the color as naturally as possible. LCD panels using this high 'color reviving' CCFL have 92% of the color gamut specified by the NTSC(National Television System Committee) standard, while the previous LCD panels have only 72% of the color gamut for NTSC, and the PDP has 85%. Samsung Electronics plans to provide them as a premium level panel, and later expand them to 32-inch and 57-inch LCD panel groups. It is reported that Samsung Electronics has cooperated with the world's best CCFL manufacturer, Harrison Toshiba, over its new lamp provision.
 

Jakus

Active Member
Personally I think we can get away from ourselfs here !
Currently there is very little HD content for 720P let alone 1080P and that's not going to change anytime soon !!
Super High Res panels will just increase that gap and the available media will just be totally unplayerble

I weighed up the options and decided to buy now, Ok now might not be the best time to Buy but all I know for sure is It was a better time than 6-9 months ago :cool:
 

tugboatbill

Standard Member
I totally agree with that Jakus, there will always be something "newer and better" on the horizon, if there wasn't anything to tempt us in the future Samsung,Toshiba,Sony et all would be out of business.

Once the SED technology etc. is in our living rooms we will probably be wishing we had waited for the holographic imaging systems :)

Out of interest what did you/will you buy?
 

daxie

Standard Member
tugboatbill said:
I totally agree with that Jakus, there will always be something "newer and better" on the horizon, if there wasn't anything to tempt us in the future Samsung,Toshiba,Sony et all would be out of business.

Once the SED technology etc. is in our living rooms we will probably be wishing we had waited for the holographic imaging systems :)

Out of interest what did you/will you buy?
I'm just the messenger for mommy and daddy ;-). So they are still thinking on buying yes/no...
 

tugboatbill

Standard Member
Personally I will be buying one of the new 37" or 40" models from Samsung/JVC/Hitachi or Toshiba before this Christmas. Most likely the 2005/6 EISA award winning Samsung if the price is right and I can get a decent stand for it. If you are wondering why Sony is not on my list the following might explain:

Sony Samsung Relationship At Breaking Point – Smarthouse Sony, who are fed up playing second fiddle to its LCD TV manufacturing partner Samsung, is considering a proposal to merge with a Taiwanese maker of LCD screens. Makoto Kogure, head of Sony's TV group, was recently quoted as saying that Sony is considering using Taiwanese Company M&A to secure panel supply, as opposed to continuing to invest in S-LCD, its joint venture with Samsung Electronics. Sony currently manufactures its large LCD screens via its joint venture partner S-LCD however the relationship between Sony and Samsung has beome strained. Samsung has its own LCD TVs and recently overtook Sony to become the top TV brand worldwide. Internal memo's at Sony claim that Samsung production needs are being priotised ahead of those of Sony. Other Sony executives claim that Samsung is "deliberatly" slowing down production of Sony branded LCD TV's as they both fight for market share. S-LCD is 51% owned by Samsung with Samsung management being responsible for the day to day management of the S-LCD plant. A senior Sony executive in Japan told SHN that the relationship was doomed from day one. "Trying to get the Koreans and the Japaneses to work together while also competing against one another was never going to work. The quicker sir Howard Stringer gets out of the relationship the quicker Sony's LCD business will grow". In the overall TV market Samsung overtook Sony last quarter with Sony falling to the third position as it lost share in most TV segments, DisplaySearch said. To be effective Sony needs to secure a regular supply of smaller-size LCD TV panels (20- to 32-inch), as the main segments supplied by its seventh-generation (7G) plant (overseen by S-LCD) are 40- and 46-inch panels. In recent weeks Sony placed orders with two Taiwanese manufacturers.
 

richard plumb

Well-known Member
tugboat, me too. prolly 37" tosh or JVC

After wasting my money on a £2k LCD 2 years ago, which won't work with Sky HD or Xbox 360 (no 720p, cheers philips), this one will have to stick for a while.

By the time I'm looking for another one, I expect to buy a roll of TV wallpaper from B&Q and I'll paper the wall with my TV :p


But this is still an interesting thread :)
 

tugboatbill

Standard Member
Nice one Richard - now that would be an interesting way forward, I can just imagine it.
 

PioRow

Novice Member
I think by december most companies will have a 1080p lcd on the market, 37" and 40"+ models, all will be overpriced and not sell very well. Then I see the price of 1366X768 sets dropping in early 2006 to the point where 37"+ 720p sets will be around the £1100 mark. Then 2nd quarter 2006 the 1080p sets will start to drop in price and by 4th quarter 2006 the 1080p sets will be at a reasonable price.
 

Jakus

Active Member
tugboatbill said:
I totally agree with that Jakus, there will always be something "newer and better" on the horizon, if there wasn't anything to tempt us in the future Samsung,Toshiba,Sony et all would be out of business.

Once the SED technology etc. is in our living rooms we will probably be wishing we had waited for the holographic imaging systems :)

Out of interest what did you/will you buy?
I picked up a Philips 37" 37PF5520/10 for about £1250.00 delivered from beyond televisions (internet) and I am very pleased with it, I have it connected to a PC via DVI and it plays 1080P from the PC with Unbelivable
Quality (at least twice as good as the best HD Shop demo's I have seen)
I think also the mid Tones are better with philips than Samsung and some of the others but they do score with stronger Blacks. Maybe the best LCD I have seen was the new Sony 32" But for the Price I could almost have mine and a 26" for the Bedroom.. ;)
 

cooperda

Well-known Member
daxie said:
And how long? Till what point? Will 1080p be the maximum for the coming 10 years?

daxie
I read somewhere online that TV broadcasters were being advised to - in house - use 1080p 50fps - to give headroom to the likely Sky etc. limit of 1080i 25fps


I would like to see moe LCD TVs offering the full 1980? x 1080 screen resolution at sub 2000 prices.

Cheers, Dave C.
 

tugboatbill

Standard Member
Jakus that sounds like more than a bit of a bargain for a 37" Philips, or any 37" LCD come to think of it.

Just ran a search on the LCD forum here and there isn't too much info doing the rounds on this model. What where the deciding factors that made you choose it?
 

Jakus

Active Member
I Had spent quite a while looking and came to the conclusion most set's out there had some issue's of 1 thing or another but I did not hear anything about Philips !

Philips/LG make their own panels so there was a more than good chance the Best graded Panels would be used by themselfs......I could not live with a Pixel Fault

In my opinion the Tv's with the speakers on the side Look better

Without Doubt Philips are one of the Better Makes and make Lot's of Tuners and things
used by other Manufacturers

The price was very very good

I was in a Store and managed to talk the guy into Plugging the Sagem HD demo into a Neovia 37" or something (which was a Philips Panel) and It made the 45" DLP sagem look very Sad (which is an Exellent TV)

That's about it really

I have a Pc connected through DVI and the Quality and Clarity Is fantastic you could easily use it as a monitor at less than 3 feet (1 meter) or as close as You want.
I Played a PC game on it and I was getting Slight "Tearing" as I do on my £1200 8ms PC monitor
because the Game frame rate was 90FPS and the screen refresh is 60 HZ in my mind that means the panel is Ultra fast trying to display information without delay and a refresh rate that won't let it keep up !
A simple Fix is as normal to set the game to Sync every frame needless to say it has impressed me

2 faults I would level at it are I don't like the Styling and the ways some of the functions of the Remote work i.e when You get to what You want You don't click OK its often a right arrow

The Screens of all the Philips/LG's go a bit Bluee/Purple at some wide Viewing angles with Dark Scenes, But in fairness If Your watching It from where You should be it's not a problem, It's more an up and down thing than sideways if You follow

and that's about all I can really Say I hope it Helps
 

daxie

Standard Member
danvitale said:
And by that time the PS3 along with BluRay will start making use of those 1080p sets.
Disagree. Most developers are working for games that will run on both xbox and PS3.
since xbox 360 doesn't support 1080p (only 720p and 1080i), and most current LCD's/plasma's don't support it either, most games will, due to better quality when deinterlaced, be developed in 720p.
But it's a guess, since they could develop for 1080i and just deinterlace...

Also about tv...

I don't think 1080p will be near future any time. It takes up massive bandwith, bandwith which should be kept available for analog signals until 2012. So my guess is 720p and 1080i will reign for at least 5-7 years.
 

GrahamC

Novice Member
720p will be the defacto standard for a long time to come maybe 25/30 years. Now thats a hefty statement to make I know but the reason I think this is because :-

Bandwidth is limited and as we start to get HD broardcasts it's at the 720 res. Now when the switch off comes and the spare bandwidth is sold or used for other things there will not be spare to up the anti for 1080 later on. The gov will not save some of the bandwidth for a later uprating in transmition quality when there's money to be had now.

It costs a lot to set up a tv/film studio with the equipment needed to film at the new res and that investment needs to be used. The studios require a return on the money they sink into the change so that means using it for a long time.

The timescale needed to get every one over to a new transmition standard seems to me to be about 10 years. What with fazed switch over/renewing of old equipment/production issues sorted it all takes a while to bed in.

1080 will be available more readily than at the moment for sure but not for the front room general tv it seems to me. Projection home cinema is where it will rule at much greater image size than LCD panels. 720p is where it's at for the foreseeable future. Your 32" LCD bought today will be used to its fullest no doubt at all in my mind. :)
 

daxie

Standard Member
GrahamC said:
720p will be the defacto standard for a long time to come maybe 25/30 years. Now thats a hefty statement to make I know but the reason I think this is because :-

Bandwidth is limited and as we start to get HD broardcasts it's at the 720 res. Now when the switch off comes and the spare bandwidth is sold or used for other things there will not be spare to up the anti for 1080 later on. The gov will not save some of the bandwidth for a later uprating in transmition quality when there's money to be had now.

It costs a lot to set up a tv/film studio with the equipment needed to film at the new res and that investment needs to be used. The studios require a return on the money they sink into the change so that means using it for a long time.

The timescale needed to get every one over to a new transmition standard seems to me to be about 10 years. What with fazed switch over/renewing of old equipment/production issues sorted it all takes a while to bed in.

1080 will be available more readily than at the moment for sure but not for the front room general tv it seems to me. Projection home cinema is where it will rule at much greater image size than LCD panels. 720p is where it's at for the foreseeable future. Your 32" LCD bought today will be used to its fullest no doubt at all in my mind. :)
thank you graham, this was the kind of posts I liked to see in this topic!
 

clash33

Standard Member
BT will be starting a BROADBAND TV service next summer allowing you to download programmes over the internet, the future could be HDTV via your phone line. :eek:
 

GrahamC

Novice Member
clash33 said:
BT will be starting a BROADBAND TV service next summer allowing you to download programmes over the internet, the future could be HDTV via your phone line. :eek:
One word 'capping' makes me wonder about tv via the internet. Think of this scenario. The first man lands on Mars, millions of internet connections at the same time with millions of phone calls/bank transaction/file transfers as well. :rolleyes:
 

Jakus

Active Member
Did a Trial for a Big UK company Last Year, If they Used decent codecs and offered outright Purchase of The media instead of evaporating WMP Files I think the Idea is great !
The Internet could cope, Just need to get our ISP's in order.. ;)
 

tugboatbill

Standard Member
Jakus, many thanks for your comprehensive reply regarding your reasons behind the purchase of the philips, sounds like you got an irresistable bargain.
 

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