The First....of many

Discussion in 'Photography Forums' started by Gordon @ Convergent AV, Mar 8, 2006.

  1. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Well I've just created a PBASE gallery to upload my work to. The first three images are there now. The first was taken in the pub straight after charging the battery in the camera. Just to check it did actually work.

    The next were taken at home....wandering around the house trying to come up with idea....thought this would be fun....can you see me? Can you see the camera? Now no cheating by looking at the EXIF info.....what camera did I get then.

    iImages shot RAW. One has histogram altered and other is cropped.

    Just for a a laugh. After this thread I'll start putting links in Steve's phot sahre thread instead. Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'm really looking forward to getting better at all this.

    Cheers!

    G

    http://www.pbase.com/gmfism/the_first
     
  2. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
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    Nikon D70? Looks like its too big from the reflection in the kettle to be a 350D.
     
  3. senu

    senu
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    ...nah its the 350D. The convex surface of the kettle has just fattened it up:D
    Remember those mirrors ( as a kid) in the funfair ?
     
  4. Jazz Monkey Jr

    Jazz Monkey Jr
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    It's a 350D, good choice (it says 350D under the photo)
    I will hopefully get mine tomorrow - I got my 50mm lens and 2 GB memory card today. Will post some snaps soon.

    The beer one looks a bit blue, but can be easily tweaked in photoshop as seen below.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  6. Jazz Monkey Jr

    Jazz Monkey Jr
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    Did you find yourself staring at the beer picture, I did. ;)
     
  7. Jazz Monkey Jr

    Jazz Monkey Jr
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    :oops:
     
  8. Mark Grant

    Mark Grant
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    It's going to cost you for lenses now Gordon :)

    Welcome to the DSLR club. :smashin:

    Nice first shot.


    ISO800 noise cleans up nicely with Noiseware free 'community' edition from
    http://www.imagenomic.com/detailsstandalone.asp

    For free you can make photos less noisy and add a little bit of sharpening:
    (no photoshop skills required)



    [​IMG]



    Mark.
     
  9. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
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    Wow, what a difference!!!

    Just downloaded it myself.

    Thanks Mark.

    Pete.
     
  10. cliveg

    cliveg
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    Hi..I've just downloaded the Noiseware app...tried it on a couple of pictures that were a bit "noisy". Blimey, what a difference:eek: :thumbsup:

    One question...I use Photoshop CS2 to do my normal editing...in future would it be better to use Noiseware first to get rid of any noise, or do it after tweaks in photoshop?

    Cheers,

    Clive
     
  11. senu

    senu
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    Do the noise removal/ sharpening last. I used noiseware a lot more when I had a Fuji602Z. ( The 350D does have a lot less noise even at ISO800)
    My experience was that the need for noise reduction or the strength could alter ( reduce) after editing. You can experiment to see as YMMV
    If overdone, noise removal can remove detail
    Helicon is another noise removing software .Even in its Free version its quite good but noisewares free version does seem rather better featured
     
  12. Mark Grant

    Mark Grant
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    NoiseNinja is another one to try
    http://www.picturecode.com/index.htm

    Plug in version is probably best if you have photoshop and know how to use it :)

    Noise Ninja also has profiles for different Cameras,
    http://www.picturecode.com/profiles.htm
    Might be useful.


    Amazing how these threads often drift away from the subject :)


    Next question is what lens did Gordon buy ?

    If its the kit lens then it looks a good one,

    Mark.
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    OK,the beer image was shot at high ISO so I could hand hold the camera. It is noisy. It was my first digital image with a DSLR. Thanks Mark for the noise reduction link...useful.

    They were done with KIT 18-55 lens. It is cheap as chips. The first things i will buy are a carry bag and either a great FAST zoom or two cheaper fast Primes.......oh god.....this is going to cost......

    Gordon
     
  14. steelydanfan

    steelydanfan
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    Nice pictures Gordon, very artistic :thumbsup:
    I'm sorry to hi-jack your thread Gordon, but I will be advertising a Canon lens for sale soon. I am going away for a week on Saturday so I'll post it in the classifieds when I come back. Just to wet your (and anyone else's for that matter) appetite it's a 24-70mm f2.8L USM in mint condition, build date is October 2003. I'm not sure how much yet but I'll look into it's value when I get back, unfortunately I am selling it to raise some finances :( so I'll be looking to get as much as I can for it.
    It will look the dogs nads on the front of that 350D though :rotfl:
    Cheers,
    Oddbodd.
     
  15. BananaTiger

    BananaTiger
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  16. Mr Cat

    Mr Cat
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    yeah, its great - just downloaded this at work and tried the sharpening feature (to + 5) on a few images - overal very good, tho, some images (especially landscape) do look a bit strange!!
     
  17. Jazz Monkey Jr

    Jazz Monkey Jr
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    Well?
     
  18. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    OK update time.

    When I took the forums advice I went to try a D50 and a 350D. I had done LOADS of reading. In actual fact, probably too much. I went in to town and stuck head in at Jessops. It was busy with lots of folk printing their digi photo#s and no-one seemed to fussed to help me...so I looked at the silver 350D and the nice D50 in the case then left.

    Up to London Camera Exchange and spoke with the manager who'd been really nice to me when I went in and explained about my inherited Kiev88 and the bits I wanted to get to try it out. He got their D50 and 350D out for me to play around with. I was surprised how much bigger the D50 was than the 350D. The Nikon seemed a much more substantial and professional device. I could see through the viewfinder slightly more easily than I could on the Canon. My problem was that my hand doesn't seem to be the correct "fit2 for the ergonomics of it.

    The Canon on the other hand was much smaller but almost too small. It did fit my hand much better though. I also found it quite simple to navigate the menu structure and to do the changes to manual paramters I wanted quickly. I would have preferred it slightly larger and with a more rubberised grip but I was happy so bought it.

    Now.....my Kiev88 came with fast glass prime lenses of 45mm, 80mm and 120mm. Having used that camera for a month and now going to the 350D with the kit lens I now realise how cheap that kit lens is. I was getting used to swapping the lens on the Kiev and was starting to understand the relationship each had to field of view etc. So I was thinking of getting a couple of cheaper prime lenses for the 350D. Then I noticed that the receptor in the thing can get dust on it if you swap lenses regularily...so now I'm thinking about a better zoom....but none seem to be that "fast"

    So much lke everyone else I'm swithering as to what to do....

    For those still reading if you have recommendation for a nice kit bag to hold the camera and a couple of lenses that'd be good....oh and can you get protectors to clip or stick over the lcd display? I'm already getting snotty nose prints all over mine....

    Cheers everyone.

    Gordon
     
  19. Zone

    Zone
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    Isn't it just :)

    For anyone interested in noiseware then there is a review of 22 here but for those that can't be bothered to read it :nono:

    The top 5 were in order!

    Noise Ninja
    Neat Image
    Picture Cooler (PC-only)
    Noiseware
    Grain Surgery

    BTW I use neatimage
     
  20. Johndm

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    Little bit more reading for you....:D Its a year or so old, so a little out of date, but you'll get the idea.....:hiya:

    Copied from elsewhere...........


    I'll start by listing all EF lenses you can buy,

    Primes

    Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye
    Canon EF 20mm f/2.8 USM
    Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L USM
    Canon EF 24mm f/2.8
    Canon TS-E24mm f/3.5L
    Canon EF 28mm f/1.8 USM
    Canon EF 28mm f/2.8
    Canon EF 35mm f/1.4L USM
    Canon EF 35mm f/2
    Canon TS-E45mm f/2.8
    Canon EF 50mm f/1.0L USM
    Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM
    Canon EF 50mm f/1.8
    Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
    Canon EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro
    Canon MP-E65mm f/2.8 1-5X Macro Photo
    Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L USM
    Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM
    Canon TS-E90mm f/2.8
    Canon EF 100mm f/2 USM
    Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro
    Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM
    Canon EF 135mm f/2L USM
    Canon EF 135mm f/2.8 Soft Focus
    Canon EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro USM
    Canon EF 200mm f/1.8L USM
    Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM
    Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM
    Canon EF 300mm f/4L USM
    Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS USM
    Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L II USM
    Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS USM
    Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS USM
    Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM
    Canon EF 500mm f/4L IS USM
    Canon EF 500mm f/4.5L USM
    Canon EF 600mm f/4L USM
    Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS USM
    Canon EF 1200mm f/5.6L USM

    Zooms

    Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon EF 17-35mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM
    Canon EF -S 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 20-35mm f/2.8L
    Canon EF 20-35mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
    Canon EF 22-55mm f/4-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
    Canon EF 28-70mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon EF 28-70mm f/3.5-4.5
    Canon EF 28-70mm f/3.5-4.5 II
    Canon EF 28-80mm f/2.8-4L USM
    Canon EF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6
    Canon EF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 II
    Canon EF 28- 90mm f/4.0-5.6 II USM
    Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM
    Canon EF 28-105mm f/4.0-5.6
    Canon EF 28-105mm f/4.0-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
    Canon EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6 L IS USM
    Canon EF 35-70mm f/3.5-4.5
    Canon EF 35-70mm f/3.5-4.5A
    Canon EF 35-80mm f/4-5.6 PZ
    Canon EF 35-80mm f/4-5.6
    Canon EF 35-80mm f/4-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 35-80mm f/4-5.6 II
    Canon EF 35-80mm f/4-5.6 III
    Canon EF 35-105mm f/3.5-4.5
    Canon EF 35-105mm f/4.5-5.6
    Canon EF 35-105mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 35-135mm f/3.5-4.5
    Canon EF 35-135mm f/4-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 35-350mm f/3.5-5.6L USM
    Canon EF 38-76mm f/4.5-5.6
    Canon EF 50-200mm f/3.5-4.5
    Canon EF 50-200mm f/3.5-4.5L
    Canon EF 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 55-200mm F4.5-5.6 II USM
    Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
    Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM
    Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM
    Canon EF 70-210mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
    Canon EF 70-210mm f/4
    Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS
    Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6
    Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
    Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 II
    Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 II USM
    Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III
    Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III USM
    Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L
    Canon EF 80-200mm f/4.5-5.6
    Canon EF 80-200mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 80-200mm f/4.5-5.6 II
    Canon EF 90-300mm F4.5-5.6
    Canon EF 90-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 100-200mm f/4.5A
    Canon EF 100-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
    Canon EF 100-300mm f/5.6
    Canon EF 100-300mm f/5.6L
    Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM

    Special

    Canon Macro Photo Lens 20mm f/3.5
    Canon Macro Photo Lens 35mm f/2.8

    Ok, that is a lot. Now some fundamental questions needs an answer:

    Why some lenses are L (Luxury) and some not?

    To me it seems the answer is: if prime is L, it is either a specialty lens (14mm, TS-E, 180 macro), extremely sensitive to light (24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.0, 85/1.2, 135/2) and it is expensive (yes, that must be one L requirement!) and intended to special target group with media visibility adding a big "I'm a pro" tag to the photographer, like all white long primes do. What must affect also is construction, distortion, colors, sharpness when open, low audible noise, fulltime manual focus, better optical elements, focus accuracy. DO is in itself an L level tag, so it does not need L. L may be very hard to manufacture and still have perfect quality control (this is why 50/1.4 is not L - it has lot of variance wide open and 50mm is probably the easiest one to manufacture).

    If zoom is an L, it means it has same aperture on both ends (or a very small difference), USM, fulltime manual focus and good construction. Perhaps weather sealing, too.

    Why should I buy new lenses at all?

    Because I have a need which is not fulfilled by the ones I have. If flash shooting is ok to you, why get 2.8 lenses? If moving around is ok for you, why get zooms? If changing lenses is not an option due environment you're shooting is, why get primes? And vice versa. Perhaps you find that your currect lenses leave you with lots of unusable photos (not suitable for situation), or they do not deliver quality you require.

    Who decides when "quality" is ok?

    You do. Only you. And what you decide is governed by your experience. In time you will develop your eye to see more from image: quality of lines, bokeh, colors, distortion. You print bigger, you see more. You get more demanding assignments (less light, in more demanding environment with more demanding schedule. You start to think more of "look" than technical quality.

    "Look"?

    Mostly people talk about speed and sharpness. "Sharp lens is good lens". Evaluating sharpness is one of the easiest things you can do with an image. Sharpness is a good thing of course, but there are several other things which should be more important:

    can you achieve good subject separation?
    can you make backrounds smooth and unobtrusive?
    are colors natural or pleasing?
    can you capture the current light?
    can you improve (boost) the current light?
    can you express yourself though the camera with this lens?
    do you feel that the images taken with this lens look good?
    is there "3-dimensionality" or other hard do define experiences when looking the photos?
    do you feel that the photos you take look like your photos?
    can you do it better with this lens?
    and so on...

    So do all L's have those qualities?

    What qualities? Didn't I just say that YOU decide what qualities are needed. You decide the qualities, then look for lenses that can produce those qualities, you weight them and check what you can afford (or better advice is: do not buy compromise lenses, wait, save and by the real one later). Sigma 14 is one example of a my compromise lens (could not afford Canon) - Canon 28-135 IS I already sold.


    One lens seeking story

    I'm getting a new lens for 1D Mark II which should come in a month or so. Why a new lens? I have now:

    Sigma 14 f/2.8
    Sigma 20 f/1.8
    Canon 35 f/2
    Canon 50 f/1.4
    Canon 70-200 f/2.8L
    Canon 1.4x mk II extender

    I shoot lots of people on work, indoors, street. I like very low light shots without flash, good subject separation and smooth bokeh. I have used mostly 50 and 70-200 just for those qualities.

    A casual reader will immediately see I obviously lack a common short zoom (24-70). May be, but the reason I'm looking for a new lens is both practical and artistic:

    When shooting portraits I have always felt 50 f/1.4 is the best lens for that (very nice at f1.8-2.5), but that I'm just slightly too close to subject when shooting. 70-200 is excellent, too, but not very "artistic" - better for live movement. So, as said obvious zoom choice would be 24-70 f/2.8L, or in primes (if based on sharpness and speed) it would be 135/2.

    24-70 drops out of the list because in 1.3X camera it extends only 10mm over 50mm on 1.6X camera. And 2.8 is too little for that wide a lens: subject separation can not be done properly. I do not want "general" lenses. I other words I'm not looking a lens just for recording a certain focal lenght range.

    So, what about 135/2? Nice bokeh, sharp. Works with extenders. Too long for small rooms, even with 1.3X camera. Too close to 70-200 in aperture and range. And even 70-200 at 2.8 is too sharp for some portraits.


    100mm may be slightly too long, and I will get 100mm macro later so for now, I'll forget 100mm lenght now.

    Then we come down to 85mm. That is the interesting focal lenght. 110mm FOV on 1D mark II (50mm = 80mm on 10D)

    85/1.2L is there. But why pay mucho extra for that when you have the 1.8 version which is really sharp and nice? Let's evaluate that. I went to net, consulted Canon "Lens Work II" and came out with info that 1.2 is very usable with 1.2L, it vignettes some wide open (actually I like that), and that it is relatively slow focusing lens. I plan to use this for "art shots" - focusing speed is not an issue. What is very important to me is autofocus accuracy and it seems that the slowness of 1.2L's focusing is there because its accuracy is excellent. Although sharpness is not no. 1 issue for me I'm not saying I don't care about sharpness - 80/1.8 is not equally sharp wide open (actually on paper it is, but due to difference in optics that does not work so well in reality) - that matters. I care a lot about bokeh and subject separation ( which should be extremely good when 1.2 is also sharp and lens focuses accurately). See http://www.wlcastleman.com/equip/reviews/85mm/ for one good test. More testing in http://www.techphoto.org/urllink.ep.../canon/50_1.epl .

    So, I decided to go for 85/1.2L. Ridiculously expensive, but the only lens that fills all my requirements. If it weren't an L, with same specs I would have chosen it anyway. I did not include a requirement "L" anywhere into my list. Merely because it has qualities that go beyond "normal" Canon decided to give it L tag. L should not be a requirement, but L is often chosen as a result of using both logic and feeling in the seeking process.

    This was just one story how people end up bying L's. In the end it's all about YOUR requirements. Forget L, think about U.
     
  21. richard plumb

    richard plumb
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    don't want to swap lenses all the time?

    the new 17-55 2.8IS seems ideal (v.expensive though). Fast aperture, IS to avoid camera shake, covers a good range including 35 and 50 for your portraits.

    or the 17-85IS out now. slightly slower aperture wise, but covers 35/50/85

    I have my eye on the 24-105L IS - constant f4, IS to save three stops, covers a nice range
     
  22. Iain Shields

    Iain Shields
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    Sorry about keeping the hijack going but I've just downloaded and tried this, and while I'm quite impressed with the results, I've found it's reduced the size of my jpeg files by quite a large margin (eg. file size before noise reduction 7.69mb - file size after noise reduction 1.4mb). Is this normal? or am I saving the shots at a lower resolution or something?

    Regards,
    Iain.
     
  23. barongreenback

    barongreenback
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    On the standard zoom front, I've just bought the Sigma f/2.8 18-50mm. Initial results are extremely pleasing - will see if I can get a few test shots posted.
     
  24. richard plumb

    richard plumb
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    noisy images will take more space at the same compression level - but that is a big difference.
     
  25. owain_thomas

    owain_thomas
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    hi gordon,

    I got a Lowe pro slingshot for a trip to germany before christmas, its fantastic, very easy to use and very comfortable to carry round all day (something I found my original tamron one to be anything but). its got tons of extra features too (like its own in built kagool in case it rains!)

    http://www.digital-cameras.com/lowe...id=0&qs=slingshot&searchid=127077&searchpos=1

    (although they seem to only have it on preorder now - I'm sure you can find it elsewhere)
     
  26. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    I hate carrying a camera bag on my shoulder, or in my hand so I got the Lowepro Omni mini. I got it origionally for my Minolta Dimage 7 but the 350D with kit lens and additional Tamron 28-300mm lens still fits with room for a couple of spare batteries and memory cards. I will need to get a bigger bag though for the flash when I get it.

    Mark.
     
  27. Mark Grant

    Mark Grant
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    Another bag to consider in something like a Crumpler Geekstar, as does not look too much like a camera bag, but you can gets lots of gear in them.

    http://www.fotosense.co.uk/shop_details.asp?productid=619&productName=Crumpler_Geekstar_(5_Colours)

    good pictures of a loaded bag here at pbase,
    http://www.pbase.com/sean_mcr/crumpler_geekstar

    Crumplers website here: (designed to entertain children I guess.....)
    http://www.crumpler.com.au/home.php

    Also look around that pbase gallery for some examples of prime lens 'L' shots, excellent !

    A few members here might remember Sean :thumbsup: :)


    Mark.
     
  28. electrolyte

    electrolyte
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    I do - his photos have improved 100% since he left! There are some crackers in his galleries...
     
  29. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    LCD screen protectors Here to help keep your snot off the LCD :devil:

    Mark.
     
  30. richard plumb

    richard plumb
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    I have the geekstar. Nice shoulder bag, wouldn't know it had a camera in unless you knew about them

    room in the top for camera with lense + another lens. Then compartments underneath for two more lenses plus flash, plus pockets for blower, CF cards, batteries, filters etc.
     

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