The first act of the new US Congress

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Nick74

Distinguished Member
This is a little OT but you do know that you are not allowed to say that. As @hippo99 said, just ask J.K. Rowling.

As for the storming the Capitol building, I will quote the great @Nick74 when he said:

;)

Well to quote Tulsi Gabbard, a democrat, a Feminist, a woman (?)


As I said above, there is a massive divide between the new and old Feminists, the fallout of which is not going to be pretty.

As Kav suggests, this only becomes an issue if gender specific references are outlawed (i.e. it becomes punishable to refer to someone in gender specific terms).

Assuming that's not the case, these amendments become nothing more than textual alterations that make terms of reference more inclusive. Inclusive language can confer advantages in a representative democracy, if it encourages (or removes perceived barriers to) access.

If something more onerous is happening here then I'm happy to be informed.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
As Kav suggests, this only becomes an issue if gender specific references are outlawed (i.e. it becomes punishable to refer to someone in gender specific terms).

Assuming that's not the case, these amendments become nothing more than textual alterations that make terms of reference more inclusive. Inclusive language can confer advantages in a representative democracy, if it encourages (or removes perceived barriers to) access.

If something more onerous is happening here then I'm happy to be informed.
I reserve the right to refer back to the right honourable gentleman's earlier comments.
... let's see what happens.
I'm guessing that it won't be long before we are re-visiting this topic again.
 
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Nick74

Distinguished Member
I reserve the right to refer back to the right honourable gentleman's earlier comments.

As is entirely your right.

History is littered with examples of amendments and shifts in terms of reference that met with great opposition at the time, from sections of the media and vocal lobbying groups.

In the main, these shifts aren't regarded as terrible impositions in retrospect. Rather, such changes are assimilated, become part of the everyday and are paid little regard, while at the same time proving to at least some degree emancipatory.
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
As Kav suggests, this only becomes an issue if gender specific references are outlawed (i.e. it becomes punishable to refer to someone in gender specific terms).

Assuming that's not the case, these amendments become nothing more than textual alterations that make terms of reference more inclusive. Inclusive language can confer advantages in a representative democracy, if it encourages (or removes perceived barriers to) access.

If something more onerous is happening here then I'm happy to be informed.
That's my understanding. A non-issue that's triggered a certain element.

Let's just say I'll be bitterly disappointed if this is the most controversial thing to happen in the next 4 years of American politics
 

imightbewrong

Distinguished Member
I don't know if you are being glib or funny but either way it doesn't take 10 minutes to come up with detailed new rules for the house.

Detailed new rules? It's a search-and-replace exercise :)

Either way they've done more for inclusion in ten twenty minutes than Trump managed in four years.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
That's my understanding. A non-issue that's triggered a certain element.

Let's just say I'll be bitterly disappointed if this is the most controversial thing to happen in the next 4 years of American politics

I'll settle for as little controversy as possible. I've had enough of interesting times.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Detailed new rules? It's a search-and-replace exercise :)
The rules are new and yes they have to be detailed. The actions following them aren't necessarily going to be the same.
 

rustybin

Distinguished Member
I'll settle for as little controversy as possible. I've had enough of interesting times.

Yes, not controversy for controversy's sake.

I'd like some work on health care and climate change. Basically reversing everything Trump has done.

Reestablishing America's reputation Internationally.

I think gun control is a pipe dream for a long while yet unless something even more unprecedented happens.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Let's just say I'll be bitterly disappointed if this is the most controversial thing to happen in the next 4 years of American politics
I'll settle for as little controversy as possible. I've had enough of interesting times.

Both points can be valid. I was going to write why then I realised that both points can be seen in at least two different ways lol.
I think gun control is a pipe dream for a long while yet unless something even more unprecedented happens.
More unprecedented than mass shooting of children? Not a criticism of your point, just a sad reflection of the world we live in. There is a solution though. Make it easier for more black people to get guns and go to affluent white neighbourhoods and cause mayhem. In case you think I am being flippant, there is a historical precedent.

The crack epidemic was a scourge and a crime but it was allowed by the FBI to continue while it stayed in black neighbourhoods. Once it spread, then it had to be dealt with. Oh and the opioid epidemic is not a scourge or a crime, it is a national emergency.
 
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richp007

Distinguished Member
I simply followed the path laid down by the questions. I will now leave that path because it diverts from the actions of the congress which is originally why I created this topic.

No problem with holding Congress (and whoever necessary) to account as we go forward.

PLENTY of work needs to be done (starting in a few weeks) to destroy Trump's legacy.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Shouldn't we wait and see before getting upset about it? What actions do you envisage out of interest?
My whole point is exactly the title of my thread :)
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
No problem with holding Congress (and whoever necessary) to account as we go forward.
This ^^^ is a whole 'nother topic lol and we have already spread beyond the original parameters of this thread for which I am obviously partly to blame coz I'm a contrary sod!
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Shouldn't M4A have been the first order of business? But wait, that needs time and preparation doesn't it? No because we are only talking about the vote. Yes it would likely fail but that wasn't the purpose. The point was to get Dems and Republicans on record on how they voted which is why both parties didn't want to do it.

I've been following this for a bit and the Dems (including Progressives) had the opportunity to force Nancy Pelosi to put in a floor vote for M4A but they bottled it. While bottling it they lied, after bottling it they are trying to obfuscate and cover their tracks.


#FraudSquad
 

gavinhanly

Distinguished Member
Just picking up on the earlier point about why congress haven't voted on the $2000 stimulus cheque.

It's because they already voted and passed that. That happened before Christmas.

It can't get any further until everyone's favourite grandpa Mitch McConnell steps off his seat of power, as he's the one blocking the vote in the senate.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Just picking up on the earlier point about why congress haven't voted on the $2000 stimulus cheque.

It's because they already voted and passed that. That happened before Christmas.

It can't get any further until everyone's favourite grandpa Mitch McConnell steps off his seat of power, as he's the one blocking the vote in the senate.
If that's true then that's a fair point.
 
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ostewart

Well-known Member
I personally believe we have 2 genders - male and female.

If you want to be classed as neutral and it makes you feel better then that's fine too.

I think you might be confusing biological sex and gender. Gender is based on socially constructed characteristics rather than biological differences.
 

BigChopper

Active Member
Wow, this is big news? 😱 shockeroonie 😱...... after recent events this is a big yawn, as they say up here, a big stooshie aboot nuthin
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
Wow, this is big news? 😱 shockeroonie 😱...... after recent events this is a big yawn, as they say up here, a big stooshie aboot nuthin
Wow :eek: Shock, horror :eek: you totally missed the point :clown: even after it has been clarified :facepalm:

My "gast" has been "flabbered".
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
Shouldn't M4A have been the first order of business? But wait, that needs time and preparation doesn't it? No because we are only talking about the vote. Yes it would likely fail but that wasn't the purpose. The point was to get Dems and Republicans on record on how they voted which is why both parties didn't want to do it.

I've been following this for a bit and the Dems (including Progressives) had the opportunity to force Nancy Pelosi to put in a floor vote for M4A but they bottled it. While bottling it they lied, after bottling it they are trying to obfuscate and cover their tracks.


#FraudSquad

If I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, your concern seems to be primarily about what this signals. In other words, you feel the Democrats have prioritised an issue as a statement of intent.

With the above in mind, is the concern specifically about this change, or a direction of travel? Is the anxiety that this is the thin end of a wedge that will see traditional gender conceptions neutralised?
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
If I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, your concern seems to be primarily about what this signals. In other words, you feel the Democrats have prioritised an issue as a statement of intent.

With the above in mind, is the concern specifically about this change, or a direction of travel? Is the anxiety that this is the thin end of a wedge that will see traditional gender conceptions neutralised?
My point is that it will be interesting to see their priorities going forward.

Here is an interesting article from the BBC. Politically it is a surprising clever move from the Republicans because it forces the Democrats to make a decision once Biden takes office.
 

Coulson

Distinguished Member
That's not my interpretation of that the thread was about. Given your original post and subsequent chat about feminism.
As stated earlier.
I simply followed the path laid down by the questions. I will now leave that path because it diverts from the actions of the congress which is originally why I created this topic.
Others are more than welcome to continue.
 

Nick74

Distinguished Member
My point is that it will be interesting to see their priorities going forward.
If those priorities extend to to outlawing gender specific language, as opposed to moving toward more inclusive terms of reference, I can't say I'd be in favour. This seems a tremendously unlikely outcome.

I hope the Democrats will prioritise working to stabilise American politics and addressing what to me are the fundamental issues driving volatility, namely the collapse of the middle classes and inequality. It should go without saying that this should incorporate addressing systemic inequalities.

Here is an interesting article from the BBC. Politically it is a surprising clever move from the Republicans because it forces the Democrats to make a decision once Biden takes office.

I'm not sure this is especially clever. It's and act of sabotage designed to create problems for the incoming administration, while destabilising international relations.

Since we're discussing priorities, it appears the Republicans priortise hampering the Biden presidency over diplomacy. Essentially they concluded "**** it, we'll lob a hand grenade in the room on the way out."
 
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