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The Fabled New FUJITSU P50XHS10ES

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by lumpsucker, Feb 26, 2003.

  1. lumpsucker

    lumpsucker
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    The Fabled New FUJITSU P50XHS10ES

    Just to remind you then……this is the one with the separate media box with Faroudja AVM+ system.
    My latest search for this holiest of grails took me to my nearest Fujitsu dealer in Plymouth. On entering this rather small outlet there was on display the latest 42" Samsung offering at £1999.99 showing a pretty decent SKY picture. But this lower ranked panel was not for me.

    I proceeded to the counter to find a sales assistant approaching me with equal enthusiasm (me expecting to get no information of any value and him not expecting any sales !). Could he help me ? Yes if he could give me any information on the P50XHS10ES (cue the music). The Manager chipped in with he "..thought it was due out in March" I explained that he may be referring to the P50XHA10 which was the all in one offering and available now. Followed a vacant look from said manager but his assistants enthusiasm was undiminished and I showed him the sacred parchment that was the hard copy of http://www.fujitsugeneral.co.jp/english/new/pdp_avm/pdp_avm.html

    Assistant proceeds to ring South West regional Fujitsu Rep (Agent X) but communications could not be established. Assistant lets slip Agent X's real name and I am heartened that I had already made contact with X who was due to report to me this week following enquiries at Bristol trade show.

    Assistant now throws caution to the wind and makes for Fujitsu U.K. H.Q. telephone number. Even I am now impressed by this bravery (or was it naivety) on display by this young plasma soldier (no longer a cowboy in my eyes !) having had dealings with the pneumonically challenged men in black ( or silver in the consumer division) at H.Q., knew this to be a daunting challenge indeed. I cower to a safe distance and pretend to view various Arcam's and alike. Within what seemed only a minute an obviously shell shocked assistant approaches me with the following report :

    Assistant to H.Q. > When will P50XHS10ES be available ?

    H.Q. to Assistant > This product is only available to our PLATINUM dealers, you are only a SILVER, you should not even know of this product. How do you know of it?

    Assistant to H.Q. > Customer has asked and……………..

    H.Q. I repeat PLATINUM eyes only.

    At this point Fujitsu U.K. H.Q. put the phone down on their dealer !!!

    We all huddle together….Manager cannot believe it, I cannot believe it, assistant cannot speak. They didn't know they were only 'Silver' they feel disgraced. They were not previously aware of the Fujitsu grading of dealers.

    I left seeking my nearest PLATINUM Fujitsu dealer and await news from Agent X.

    To be continued………………………………….
     
  2. IanM

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    Great description - are you related to Stuart Hall by any chance? (apologies to those of you who don't listen to 5 Live football reports)

    The most obvious platinum candidate that I can think of is Harrods, who were the first to showcase the 42" AVMplus model.

    I'm more than happy with my mere P50XHA10. It seems to have been completely overlooked by people on this forum, whereas on the avsforum in the states it's almost universally considered the best 50" model available. I guess it's because hardly anywhere here has one on display, whilst they seem to be much more common over there, possibly due to HDTV giving an incentive to go for bigger, higher resolution screens.

    Although, having said how pleased I am with mine, I must admit that I'm very interested to see what the XHS10's AVMplus adds the picture quality.

    Does anyone know if the only difference between the models is the external box? And does anyone know how this box connects to the screen? I hear that some 42" AVMplus models have started to appear. How are thay connected to the screens?

    Cheers,
    Ian.
     
  3. johndonovan

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    Is your 50 incher noisy?

    thanks
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    I believe the Tuner switcher is available exclusively through one distrinbutor. I deal with them. What info do you want exactly?

    Date out?
    Cost?
    Anything else?

    Gordon
     
  5. IanM

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    Gordon,

    The availability, cost and obviously whether or not it works with the XHA10 would be very useful thanks.

    Also, if it does work with the XHA, then I'd be interested in how it connects. Does it connect via one of the standard inputs (in which case other displays could use it) or does it use a proprietary connection and require a special terminal board for use with the XHA10?

    And then there's the subjective "how much would it improve picture quality?" question, which is very difficult to answer without actually seeing one in action.

    Cheers,
    Ian.


    johndonovan,

    My 50" incher does have a fan that you can hear from a few feet away in a quiet room, but it doesn't really bother me. I went into a bit more detail in the following thread:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65469

    Basically it makes a noise but whether or not it bothers you is pretty subjective.

    Cheers,
    Ian.
     
  6. Joe Fernand

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    Hello IanM/Gordon

    The Fujitsu P-SU4H10ES Selector connects to the display via a DVI cable - the one supplied in the P42HHS10 bundle is 3.0m long.

    A+K have so far said the Selector will NOT be available as a stand alone unit that you can add to other Fujitsu panels - makes sense in a way as A+K have an exclusive on this product which would sort of disappear if they made the Selector available as a stand alone unit.

    Lumpsucker

    Be thankful your not shopping for a Fujitsu in the US - no Fujitsu dealer is even allowed to publicise that they sell these products; you cant even say WE SELL FUJITSU plasma on your web site (and absolutely no advertised pricing).

    Only displays bought from fully authorised NON WEB ENABLED resellers will get a Fujitsu warranty - see Fujitsu's US home page and see what these boys have in mind for protecting there pricing and dealers.

    So far A+K in the UK have said that that they dont have a release date as yet for the 50" HHS AVM+ model.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  8. lumpsucker

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    Ian,

    Only Stuart Hall can make a 0-0 sound like it was 4 All and only tell you that it was 0-0 after about 5 minutes of poetry.

    Anyway, if you go to http://www.fujitsu-general.co.uk/ the P42HHS10 is not mentioned in the product list and neither can you download a PDF brochure for it. However if you request a brochure for any of the Plasmas by post then you get glossies for all their current consumer models including the P42HHS10 which is not the P50XHS10 but does include a full spec of the selector box which I presume to be the same. The bottom line is that it states that the output from box to panel is "DVi x 1 SET" which I (again) presume to be a DVI-I cable interface as it would have to pass through both analogue and digital input sources to the panel.

    Have a go and see what you think. Alternativley call into your nearest Platinum,Gold or silver Fujitsu dealer who should be able to give/show you the same brochure.

    Cheers

    Simon

    P.S. As I typed my post this morning the postman delivered my above mentioned brochures with a letter from H.Q. which included a list of all 7oaks stores (no other retailes, just 7oakes). The writer at H.Q gave me their name and number and invited my contact should I require "further information" !!!

    I have never tried so hard, to spend so much, on something of which I have seen so little :)
     
  9. dts_boy

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    try your nearest Sevenoaks - they always seem to have Fuji plasmas in and are a big(ish) company.
     
  10. lumpsucker

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    Thanks dts_boy,

    7oaks may be big'ish in some places but in Plymouth they are strictly 'Silver' (allegedly).
     
  11. johndonovan

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    Does anyone know why Fujitsu make it so hard for the likes of you and me to buy their product?
    Do they not want it to be successful?
    Do they exist just to fund the business of their dealers or do they want to take on Panasonic & Pioneer in this market?
    Do they care what their customers want?
    Why do I feel bad about wanting to buy their product - I should feel great?

    If anyone knows the answers to these questions or has similar feelings, please let me know because right now I don't feel right about doing any business with this company.
     
  12. IanM

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    Thanks for the information Joe.

    Fujitsu's attitude does sound terrible. And they certainly don't make it easy to buy their products. I bought mine unseen which was a big risk (especially since months of research had convinced me that subjectivity was the major factor). I relied on the excellent reviews it got in the US and the fact that I'd always liked the Fujitsu screens in the past. It also helped that it uses the Panasonic glass, which I've always preferred to Pioneer's.

    However it really is an excellent display; the best 50" I've seen. The guys in the states concluded that it had the contrast of the Panny with the detail of the Pioneer.

    DVDs look excellent. The AVM electronics mean that I can't see a difference between progressive scan and non-progressive scan inputs using my Philips 963SA player, with its built-in DCDi chip.

    PC also looks superb - 1024x768 inputs automatically appear Native Rate, and still look good in wide mode. And that's via VGA; I've yet to try it using DVI.

    The only source that I have any complaints about at the moment is Sky+. It looks better than on any other 50" plasma I've seen (presumably due to the AVM), but on close inspection still shows some solarisation and other artifacts. This is where I was hoping the AVM+ box would help clean up the picture even further, but it sounds like I won't be able to get it separately due to Fujitsu's attitude problems.

    I've briefly tried the iScan Ultra and that made little or no difference. If I'd played a bit more with the settings and connections then it might have helped, but I suspect that the AVM electronics are not too far off the iScan's. My current plan is to see if a HCPC will help. I'm building one at the moment for general use with the plasma, but I also intend to use it to try out DScaler and maybe even stretch to a Holo3D card if that doesn't work.

    It's a bit off-thread, but has anyone got any other suggestions on how to tidy up Sky pictures to minimise the artifacts that become more apparent on a large display?

    Cheers,
    Ian.
     
  13. johndonovan

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    Thanks for your feedback - couple of other questions if you have the time.

    What video input are you using to run Sky (s-video, component etc)?
    How far do you sit from the screen when watching Sky?
    Are these artifacts on Sky apparent from normal viewing distance (see above)?

    thanks

    John
     
  14. IanM

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    John,

    My Sky+ is connected to the screen using RGB SCART (the terminal board that comes with it has a SCART connection). I sit about 10ft away and I can notice some of the artifacts, but most other people don't. I guess that I'm just fussy.

    In particular the blue and yellow colours on the sky menus seem to produce small dots above and below the text. This particularly annoys me because it can't be explained by the lower bit-rate of the Sky broadcasts. The actual TV pictures show less obvious problems (although sometimes the solarisation is quite clear) and are quite often superb.

    The plasma also has DVI, VGA and component inputs, but no S-Video (that's on a different terminal board, with a composite input and an extra component input). I tried using a SCART-SVideo lead to test the SVideo picture, but it appeared in black and white for some reason. I'm sure that someone can tell me why?

    Cheers,
    Ian.
     
  15. johndonovan

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    Thanks for your reply Ian

    I will be sitting 14' from the screen, so I guess this will significantly reduce my ability to notice these artifacts.

    thanks

    John
     
  16. UVII

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    I bought the HHA42 (not the AVM+ version) last week. I am running a Pioneer 737, sky (JS RGB->Component), and PS2 through an A1SE (all component obviously). The picture quality is fantastic. I had been looking at the Pion/Pana but just wasn’t sure. Saw the Fuji and paid for it on the spot. An order of magnitude better (yes the fans are slightly louder but it’s seems to be a quite a low pitch, and I don’t notice them at all).

    My sky picture is often as good as DVD (certainly on high bandwidth channels). I saw the artifacts you talk about when passing a composite sky source. It might be worth checking that you really are sending RGB (video defaults to composite on the panel I think).

    Progressive sent via the dvd (NTSC) seems to make very little difference.
     
  17. IanM

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    UVII,

    Thanks for the advice. I'm pretty sure that the Sky+ box is outputting RGB and that the input information on the plasma's menu confirmed that. However I'll definitely check tonight. I can't believe that composite could look as good as the PQ sometimes looks on Sky+, but you never know what the AVM processing is doing.

    Does anyone know if the JS SCART -> VGA box actually improves the signal in any way or if it is a simple converter? The reason I ask is that most people who use it says that it helps PQ (presumably when compared to svideo), but I'm using a SCART socket on the plasma that effectively converts anyway. Although I guess that if the JS box does a better conversion, then it could improve the picture.

    Cheers,
    Ian.
     
  18. ncpl

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    I have the same feelings as you re: the contemptable attitude that Fuji seem to have towards some of its dealers and potential customers. Why are they the only one's with the anti-web approach. It seems to be to ensure that we get the best expert support......well what about the setup at Bristol then ?

    Whilst I'd be delighted if the 42HHA turned out to be an outright winner (it would save me hours of endless research), I wouldn't like to feel that FJ were doing me a favour by letting me give them £4000 !!!!

    Have they always been like this ?

    UVII, glad you're getting the right result. It means that they are at least capable of doing the biz.

    Rgds

    Nick
     
  19. modeller

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    Ian,

    Slightly off topic .. but

    I'm very curious about your proposed solution for cleaning up the sky picture.
    Which input card would you use for the PC? I'm presuming that you would have to feed RGB into the HTPC and output via DVI to have any hope of bettering the PQ.

    thanks,

    steve
    PS I'm intending to view the 50" commercial model this week at Nexnix as they have demo available.
     
  20. IanM

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    Steve,

    I've bought a cheap Flyview capture card from PC World, which got rave reviews in the home cinema forum. This will take s-video from the Sky+ box, which will be processed using the DScaler open source software and output, as you say, via DVI to the display. The main issue to overcome seems to be getting the plasma to accept Native Rate over DVI, but several people over on the US avsforum seem to be looking into that. Failing that I'll try native rate over VGA or 1024x768 over DVI stretched using the wide mode.

    I'm building the home PC anyway, for browsing etc, so it won't cost any extra money to try it out (although the use of DScaler did convince me that I'd need a fast processor).

    Somewhat embarrassingly, as UVII suggested, some of the artifacts I was seeing were because I was using composite: on one of my many configuration changes I'd plugged the scart into the upper (non-rgb) output on the Sky+ box. The picture from the lower (RGB) socket is now much better, but I'm still looking to improve it! I'm hoping that a bit of external processing will help compensate for the lower bandwidth of most Sky broadcasts relative to DVD. Opinion seems to be divided about how current versions of DScaler compare with a dedicated hardware solution such as the iScan Ultra or the Holo3D card, but it's free and it's very easily upgraded.

    Cheers,
    Ian.
     
  21. joys_R_us

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    Ever heard of GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT ? :lesson:
     
  22. IanM

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    Are you talking about the Sky picture quality or the program quality? :)

    I must admit that I'm not expecting miracles from dScaler, partly because the scaler in the Fujitsu seems so good. I briefly tested an iScan Ultra and couldn't see much difference apart from the fact that it introduced the dreaded lip-sync issue.

    However dScaler seems highly thought of and it's free, so I figured that I might as well give it a try.

    Unfortunately, the way things are going I won't be able to check out dScaler even when I have built my PC because I'm currently unable to use my plasma. I've had no end of problems trying to get the Fujitsu desktop stand. I stood it up in the packaging for the first week or so, just to see if it worked (and because I wanted to play wiith it of course) but I got nervous doing that and so haven't used it since, and I've had it for over a month! NexNix's distributors seem very helpful, and they keep telling me that they are looking into it, but so far I haven't had much in the way of a solution.

    It's a great screen, but that's irrelevent if you can't use the thing!

    Cheers,
    Ian.
     
  23. lumpsucker

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    Agent X just contacted me. Confirms P50XHS10ES is on the Fujitsu roadmap for release in UK but not for at least 3 months. I'm not sure X is operating at the highest security level and didn't really know anything new. Still at least it looks like it will be here this year and it gives me a few months to save. Perhaps the new Panny's due out this Autumn might force down the intro price of the P50XHS10ES.

    Communication ends.................
     
  24. johndonovan

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    Lumpsucker - could you ask agent X whether or not the switch unit with AVM+ will be sold seperately and whether it will work with the 50" XHA model.

    thanks
     
  25. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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    I had a look at the 42" alis panel two days ago at Joe Fernands. We used it with the AVM switcher box. I will try to post findings later. All I can say right now is I wouldn't put it at top of my christmas list.....

    Gordon
     
  26. lumpsucker

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    Gordon,

    I'm not sure Joe will thank you for that as he is advertising it on his website, but I look forward to hearing about your findings non the the less. I assume that you were using the P42HHS10.

    Regards

    Simon
     
  27. Gordon @ Convergent AV

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  28. ncpl

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    Gordon, was it the HHA or HHS used in Bristol ? That had artifacts too. The AVM+ was in front of it, but, I can't recall if it was in use.

    I picked up the HHA and can see no artifacts so far. One thing I do notice, however, is a slight shadow (just a few mm's) on DVD to the right of the image displayed via BNC. Most noticable on text, but, also on high-ish contrast boundaries.

    I can't see anything that looks like an adjustment for this. Dealer says it's normal due to the layers of glass. Why do I therefore not see it with the RGB Sky feed ?
    Is it likely to be player related, normal (I hope not) or component input related.

    Any comments welcomed.

    Rgds

    Nick
     
  29. UVII

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    I have the HHA (all component via BNC) and see no artifacts or shadow. What is clear though, is that the picture quality is very much dependent on the screen/dvd config. and screen mode (dynamic etc....). The first thing you want to do is crank the color setting down to -18 or so....

    What is a switcher box? I thought Alis was used on the 4242???
     
  30. Joe Fernand

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    Hello all

    Just to confirm it was the P42HHS10 with the external AVM+/ Faroudja DCDi Selector Box that Gordon had a play with earlier in the week.

    As I posted in a previous thread the first time I had this screen at home I thought its video quality was OK but not the revelation that I was lead to believe was on its way in a big cardboard box.

    The HHS10 has a great immediacy to its image and certainly attracts the eye and looked pretty good on an initial viewing with my SKY+ Digibox - but then Gordon threw a few of his torture test discs at it (tests that Gordon can verify play out well on his Pioneer PDP-433MXE) and the display started to show up some strange characteristics that we were not expecting based on the claims being made for this display.

    Lots of bouncing lines in areas where closely packed horizontal lines were being displayed; a set of steps on a long zoom shot on one disc seemed to be flashing on and off as the camera pulled out to reveal a wider shot.

    Panning shots across any objects or buildings with diagonal edges looked very stepped - much more so than on my Pioneer HDE.

    Solid colour blocks were rather 'noisy' and quite often showed up finely stepped gradients rather than smooth transitions.

    Going back to SKY+ after Gordon left I still liked how the display looked on head and shoulders and close ups - but when the background gets busy and there's lots of motion its as if the processor is working far too hard and cant really keep up or its fighting with the ALiS glass.

    Neither of us have ever favoured the ALiS type displays and possibly more experimentation with a wider range of source kit and material is required but on this test and my previous viewing then I'd still say it was an OK display but not the new 'best buy' it has been touted as.

    Another potentially big problem I have with the Fujitsu displays being the fan noise - I cant understand why a display that's got most of its processing in an external box has to have fans and strangely enough side by side with my Pioneer PDP-433HDE the Fujitsu with its fans was actually running hotter that the Pioneer with no fans.

    Owners of the HHA model may jump in here with thoughts on the fan noise issue but I've already spoken to two HHA owners who are finding it an issue now that they have these displays at home!

    So as others have posted that they are happy with this display and the HHA version we maybe have to look closely at matching it with source kit it likes - in the meantime I'm still sticking the Pioneer MXE and Panasonic PWD and PHD (though its got fans) displays at the top of my shopping list.

    Joe
     

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