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The end is nigh?

Discussion in 'Nintendo Forums' started by Robson, Feb 12, 2003.

  1. Robson

    Robson
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    of piracy that it...

    Ok so It'll probably never go away, but I think in as little as 5 years it'll be a small insignificant minority still doing it.

    Look at the following:-

    The XBOX is already commercially uncrackable. That's why there's no Region X and the like. Unless Microsoft allows it, you can't release anything. So that leaves Modchips, fine for offline games but I think I'm right in saying you can't copy Live games and play them online without getting barred?. And that's where they're going to stop piracy!!!

    Ok, so five years is maybe being optimistic for this country but it's a given that enventually 90%+ of console owning homes will have high-speed internet access. So, what if future generations of consoles are so dependant on broadband access that most games require it, even slightly it would be enough for checks to be made to the legitmacy of the software and bar any pirates.

    The Gamecube is already copy proof?

    Sony games still haven't been copied after nearly a decade?

    So once you eliminate modchips you eliminate piracy?
     
  2. James45

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    Not sure i understand what you mean, the utterly huge piracy industry of playstation games since 1995 made the original console as successful as it was, to the extent that sony didn't crack down on the pirates. cheap copied games propagated more and more consoles sales.

    would be interested to know if pirated gamecube games exist because of their size. not that I would buy a pirated game and please do not think this post supports piracy. it does not.
     
  3. Robson

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    Ok, I should have said Direct copies, i.e. disc to disc. They still haven't copied a Sony game that works without a Modchip.

    As to whether the original playstations success was due to piracy is a matter of conjecture.

    But if it's true that console's are sold at a great loss with money recouped in software sales, I should think that every manufacturer will bring out more and more security measures.
     
  4. Sinzer

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    GC games have not been copied due to proprietary discs (AFAIK)

    SONY games are constantly copied, I could point you to places you can download all the latest PS2 games to burn onto CDR's.

    I guarantee there will be a way to crack Live while running a BIOS which allows pirate games, it is just a matter of time. The only business model is server held information/games where you need an account to access, ala online RPGs. You have to then buy a key to get an account, these systems are pretty unhackable. Once you are charging people for access, you no longer need to charge for the original software purchase.

    I do not forsee any end to widescale piracy until you get rid of the net (non-controlled distributed file-sharing) and PC's. And of course, everyone being able to afford the exorbitant costs of software :p
     
  5. Robson

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    Really? then why do people chip their PS2's?
     
  6. NeoBlade

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    I've chipped my consoles purely to play import videogames. I don't support the piracy scene at all since it will kill the videogame industry in the end. I chipped my PS2 sometime in Jan ready for the FFX: International release in Japan and now I enjoy a nice influx of original imports from the USA and Japan since the games are not available over here... And if they are theres at least a 6 month wait. Even then the PAL port will be shabby with borders and slower gameplay and with some features missing (online).

    I also own a switchable Japanese Gamecube because the PAL ports and slow release dates were just cheesing me off to no end and I'm very happy with my choice. My Freeloader is there only to rent the odd game from Blockbusters but it'll be unlikely that I'll buy another PAL game ever.

    From what I know, the Panasonic Q can play copied Gamecube games burnt on a CD-R or DVD-R via a modification but that was ages ago and no further details have been released.

    As for PS2 games I haven't seen a direct boot of a CD-R/DVD-R on a unmodified PS2 work but then I'm not interested in that scene. We know that you can run copied and import Dreamcast games on a unmodified console via a boot disk though... For the Gamecube it is possible but it wouldn't be financially viable to do so.

    As for the PSX selling as well as it has because of piracy, its a well known fact for everyone concerned with videogames.
     
  7. Robson

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    It certainly didn't hurt put it that way, however you can't deny that the some of the main reasons the PS1 sold well was because of quality games we hadn't seen before in the home, excellent marketing by sony and the publishers, to say otherwise is a disservice to all involved.

    Don't forget though, the PS1 was sold at a profit from day one, So people buying only to play copied games still made money for Sony.

    But the point i'm making is you still can't go into blockbuster, rent a game and copy it for any of the 3 main consoles(without a modchip).

    And that's what I'm getting at, once consoles become dependant on broadband piracy will be easier to eliminate?
     
  8. NeoBlade

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    Heh I know the PSX had more than its fair share of cracking videogames, but those million sellers and pirate copies go hand in hand yet you still need hardware to play on those games, so hardware sales increased. I've done a summeriesed feature length post of the PSX and what it brought to videogames last year on the forums and most of us know what it brought to videogaming. My point was that it also brought piracy to the fore.

    I can't see consoles being totally dependant on broadband, certainly not on the next gen consoles after the PS2, GameCube and Xbox. The fact is UK and Europe are well behind in telecommunications technology and it will take some serious investing by the EU to get anywhere near dependant on broadband. Even then when it happens the DVD format will be as cheap as VHS tapes are now as blue-laser and other technologies take over.

    You can never eliminate piracy for videogames and PC software ever and the same goes for MP3s. The only real way to do this is as Sinzer has pointed out, to eliminate P2P programs, CD and DVD burners and to seriously limit the use of the internet, PCs and electronic devices. Can we see all of that happening anytime soon?

    The more realistic method to limit piracy would be to follow Nintendo's lead - To make piracy financially unviable. As much as we hate it, propriety mediums will continue to exist and will include stronger security algorithms and techniques to slow down the entire process. Then the rest will depend on the police to crack down on mass market piracy circles and to give them a suitable fine and sentace to deter others.

    Piracy is here to stay sadly unless something radical happens globally. I doubt that the black market will enjoy as much success as it did with the PSX though but it will still enjoy success no matter what we throw at them.
     
  9. Robson

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    Was it true that certain games could detect a modchip on the playstation and so wouldn't work?

    If so, I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't done this.
     
  10. Sinzer

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    Modchip detection was not introduced as far as I was aware.

    In terms of burning onto CD-R, that is how you copy PS2 games. You chip your PS2 so it will play CD-R's and DVD-R's, then you simply download the game off the net and copy it. There is no way to direct boot.

    I have looked about and you can pick up bootleg Gamecube games, apparently Ninty have just made a big bust in China of 300,000 copied games.

    Piracy will be around for a long time, unfortunately.
     
  11. Bristol Pete

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    is that a bit like Theme Park on a boat ??

    Sorry, couldnt resist it.
     
  12. The Sheriff

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    robson, those are some bold comments fut im afraid most of your points in your original post are wrong:


    -"The XBOX is already commercially uncrackable."

    firstly, thats not correct, there are many chips out on the market that allow copies to be played directly, some of the new chips only have 10 or so wires to soldier too, making it very easy to do. And then copying games is also very simple to do with software such as disc juggler and primodvd


    -"That's why there's no Region X and the like".

    there is a region X for teh XBOX but i dont think it can be used in the same way as the PS2 one for playing backups


    -"The Gamecube is already copy proof?"

    i give it about 4 months, they are very close


    -"Sony games still haven't been copied after nearly a decade?"
    not sure wher you got this infomation from but PS1 games are the easiest to copy out of all of them, can copy originals or copies with great ease using cdclone, cdrwin, discjuggler, nero etc. Early PS2 cd games such as timesplitters and silent scope can be copied just as easy. The latter ones need a few adgustments to the settings on cdclone but still atainable after 5mins of fiddling with options.

    and playing PS2 games doesnt even require a modchip, it can be done with a region X, bought from only £10. so basically PS1 and PS2 have been able to be hacked within about 6months of their launch, same with XBOX. dreamcast is stupidly easy, doesnt even need a chip, and the only one to go is GC.

    i personally dont think piracy will ever die out.
     
  13. Bristol Pete

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    is that a bit like Theme Park on a boat ??

    Sorry, couldnt resist it.
     
  14. NeoBlade

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    Modchip detection was introduced first on the PSX (Um Jammer Lammy, etc) and it worked fairly well... But soon after that Stealth v2.0 was developed and the mod chip detection was then fooled. Even then you can modify the actual videogame's image on your PC to remove such protection.

    Strong words by richard there and he's pretty much right on all accounts. It'll be interesting to see what they can do with the Gamecube as Freeloader has shown.. It is possible. I just hope that the authorities take a stronger stance against piracy so it won't reach the dizzy heights of the PSX era. Only time can tell.
     
  15. spidermanalf

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    That was GBA stuff. Copying cartridges is suprisingly easy after a moderate outlay!!!

    I have the z64 (www.z64.co.uk) for my N64, as I was scared my cartridges would break!!!
    hmmmmmmmm


    ANYWAY, go to any market and car boot, and you can get copied games, blimey if you buy enough, they give you a discount!!!
     
  16. Robson

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    What I mean by "commercially uncrackable" are companies like Datel not the inventors of DVDX/EVO-x et all. But as of today there is no Region X that you can buy in the shops. And if I may be bold for a minute :) there won't be one anytime soon,if ever.

    I wasn't sure if it had been already cracked ,that's why I put a question mark. The size of the disks prevents copying easily, but I'm sure it will be overcome in time as you say.

    As for Sony games being uncopyable, what I'm getting at is that unless you modify your PS hardware you can't copy the games. We could all buy a music CD tomorrow, take it home, copy it with a cd-writer and it would work in most unmodified CD players. But the actual copy protection on games is still, shall we say, uncopyable.

    The whole reason I started this thread (and i'm sure there are thosed who wish I hadn't bothered). Is to discuss ways to eliminate Modchips.

    I used broadband as an example, but this is not wholly exclusive. Any form of connection from your console to say MS could be required. Even a normal dial-up would allow monitoring of your hardware to check for modchips.

    So that's what I'm saying, do you think future consoles will require some form of internet connection and how will this affect piracy?
     
  17. Sam

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    I think the way MS have been banning people from Xbox Live if they have a modded machine shows that it is a course they will all take in the end as we all become more dependant on online connections.

    Although there will be ways round it (as there always is), this will go some way into stopping people.

    There are some that will always hunt for the work around, but others will be put off with all the hassle.

    I got a Jap Cube when it was launched, but personally was put off getting an NTSC Xbox because of the online hassle involved.
     
  18. spidermanalf

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    Well I do not have broadband, so cannot have Live anyway!!

    Shame, won't be able to play half a dozen games on line!
     
  19. Robson

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    Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? ;)
     
  20. spidermanalf

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    Just a smidgen!!!

    Online games are well and good, but I have real life friends who come round and multi play that way!!!

    Plus they usually have a one player mission in there anyway, so you can get the jist of the game!
     
  21. Sam

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    There's a place for them all though.

    Sometimes I like to play on my own.

    Other times I like to play with my mates, but that isn't always possible. You can always get a game online though. :)
     

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