1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The end is nigh?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Orbital, Feb 27, 2005.

  1. Orbital

    Orbital
    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Midlands
    Ratings:
    +4
    Hi everyone,

    Is CRT on its last legs? I drove down to Bristol today to visit the HiFi show and fell in love with a Sharp DLP PJ!!! I almost felt like a two timing harlot when I arrived back home and could hardly look my Barco 800 in the tubes :(

    I've decided in the not to distant future to move our dedicated cinema room from upstairs down into the garage, which we will have converted. I had pretty much decided on replacing my BD800 with a Barco 808s but after seeing this little sharp DLP create such a cracking image I think it's time to have a re-think. I've always been really susceptible to the dreaded rainbow effect so have never really given DLP's much of my time. Obviously things have moved on apace because I couldn't really see anything at all. No matter how I tried. The contrast ratio was very good, nice black blacks and plenty of detail in the dark scenes too, just like my BD800. I really was taken aback.

    I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but I really do believe the era of CRT's is coming to end, sooner than I thought it would. Right. I think I need a stiff drink to take in what I’ve just written!
     
  2. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2000
    Messages:
    1,761
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Outpost 31
    Ratings:
    +208
    Perhaps not on its last legs but certainly the joints are beginning to get a bit stiff and there's definately a few more gray hairs than there were this time last year!

    As for me, already defected to the light side, no going back.
    Paul
     
  3. Rob

    Rob
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2000
    Messages:
    1,285
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +33
    Well I have to say I disagree.

    At the moment I'm in the process of moving my home cinema to a smaller room, and had anticipated possibly selling my CRT as I didn't think it would fit (Barco 1609s)

    Having viewed various "CRT beaters" such as the Marantz S3 and a couple of others I decided I was going to make it fit! Although it would have been much easier to use something smaller, I just didn't like the picture.

    Detail, brightness & even black levels were all pretty good, but it just didn't have the look that I'm used to. I think if you're used to a good CRT, even with technology improving as it has, they are hard to beat.

    Rob.
     
  4. Orbital

    Orbital
    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Midlands
    Ratings:
    +4
    Don't get me wrong my BD800 even with it's 45000 hours of run time (new tubes I may add :D ) Would still blow half of the LCD/DLP's out the water, but it's far more closely run thing now to 12-18 months ago.

    I think of the agro that awaits me installing another CRT though and it's not something I'm looking forward too. I don't know if I'm just getting old, but I prefer to spend my time watching films rather than messing with my convergence these days :)
     
  5. Rob

    Rob
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2000
    Messages:
    1,285
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +33
    Can't argue with that!
     
  6. crteaman

    crteaman
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    428
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    Dave, don't forget that an 808s is a very different beast to an old 800,the difference is dramatic,mag focus for stability,much smaller beam spot size,a good 808s will actually run 960 16:9 whilst the 800 would be all out at line double.
    The light output is also at least 30% more from the 808 (though not as high as dlp of course) yielding a much higher contrast ratio,I'm sure Rob remembers going from his seleco up to an 808.
    Have to admit the convenience factor on the dlp units though,no comparison there.

    james
     
  7. Rob

    Rob
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2000
    Messages:
    1,285
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +33
    Yes, its nice upgrading projectors, not so nice going down! I'm going to have to drop down from a 80" wide screen to a 72". I'm just hoping the edge focus will be OK (I'm using HD120 lenses)

    Rob.
     
  8. Thunder

    Thunder
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,830
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Ratings:
    +14
    I have seen 20k three chip DLP's in action. My Barco G808S cost in totall including Lumagen scaler, cables, mounting brackets, lift hire and callibration from both James and Gordon roughly £3250.00. Does a three chip DLP look sharper? by a small margin :( , does it do blackes better? no :) , do the colours look more natural? no :) , Does it look as organic as my CRT? no :) , Is it easier to maintain? yes :( , is a slightly sharper picture and easier installation and maintainance equate to paying £17,000 more? If yes you have much deeper pockets than I ;)
     
  9. Orbital

    Orbital
    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Midlands
    Ratings:
    +4
    I've seen 20K 3 chip DLP's too. I've also seen G90's Cine 7's, 9's the whole nine yards. I know my BD800 isn't the pinnacle of CRT technology but I'm not basing my observations against just that one model. The thing is this Sharp jobbie wasn't 20K it was £2900. Had colour rendition spot on (very good skin tones) and just impressed me no end. Next door were Sim2 with some of their new gear and that was even better.

    The DLP side of things isn't quite their yet but I think within 18-24 months time the major reason to own a CRT is going to be nostalgia more than anything. Perhaps I'm way off ( it wouldn't be the first time :) ) but the CRT timer is ticking down now if you ask me (which nobody did :D ). The advancements that have been made in LCD/DLP over the last few years have been fairly substantial and these advancements are only going to gather pace.
     
  10. Thunder

    Thunder
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,830
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Ratings:
    +14
    Your right that digital projectors will continue to get better and better as this is where all the research is being done :) But that still dosnt change the fact that at this moment in time I havnt seen a DLP/LCD at anything like sensible money or with in a million miles of the 3k my CRT cost me that comes anyway near to its performance :D Go and buy a digital projector now, but like anything a year or two down the line there will be something better, its just that it will be another digital projector :) No piece of equipment will be at the top of the tree for ever :smashin: At this point in time however CRTs still give fantastic performance for a comparitively cheap price :thumbsup: My Barco will take a 960 res image comfortably, there still isnt a digital around that will do higher than 720. In a few years time I will probably be hunting for a 9" as they will then probably be bargains also :smashin:
     
  11. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,440
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +888
    Pardon?

    JVC DLA-HD2K is 1920x1080 native. DLA-QX1 is 2048x1536. There are several 1920x1080 LCD projectors too.
     
  12. Thunder

    Thunder
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,830
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Ratings:
    +14
    I beg your pardon :)
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,174
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +3,004
    CRT's have their places and fixed pixels have theirs. The intelligent dealer understands the limitations of both and offers their customers the correct solution. I could do dems of fixed pixels that would destroy any CRT...and I could do the same with CRT destroying Fixed pixel. The key is the source, the screen size and the environment.
     
  14. Vince M

    Vince M
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    479
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Lagoa
    Ratings:
    +0
    Id like to see the source+ digital that destroys a Marquee 9501LC :rotfl: :D :rotfl:
     
  15. Vince M

    Vince M
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    479
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Lagoa
    Ratings:
    +0
    ..Sorry..I meant to add a Marquee 9501LC with D-Theatre at 1080i coming out of a Crystalio at 1080p...

    On a serious note though,taking convenience out of the equation and talking of ultimate picture quality,a digital picture can be great -but viewd through chicken wire-a top crt`s picture can be greater but like viewing through an open window! :)

    That I feel- :thumbsup: apart from the massive black improvement- is the biggest difference ,the sense of depth that you can realise with top crt-.
     
  16. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,174
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +3,004
    Vince: I'd like to see the Marquee9501lc that can project on to a 20ft wide screen in a white room and outpeform a Sony Qualia with 1080i HD material..... ;) As I said....horses for courses.

    Gordon
     
  17. Alaric

    Alaric
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,759
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Peterborough, Cambs, UK
    Ratings:
    +149
    Hiya,

    I've heard stories and posts for at least 4 or 5 years that say the end is neigh and in 12-24 months no one will be buying CRT's as the "whatever the latest new technology fad" is will be miles better....but we're still here.

    Its the whole Digital vs Analogue game again, save this time its picture rather than audio. There are still people who swear records are better than CD's and in absolute terms they are, a good record deck is better than a good CD player, however a cheap CD player will trounce a badly set-up/poorly maintained collection.

    The difference with projectors is that the software medium won't dry up in the same way that killed record decks. HDMI/HiDEF may impact though, but i'm sure a bright spark will produce an ilicit interface box somewhere to convert to component.

    cya,
    Lee
     
  18. crteaman

    crteaman
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    428
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    Hmmm, Having installed hundreds of crt's over the years,and for all types of people from all walks of life, never had a customer who (a) watched movies in a bright white room (b) anyone that ever wanted anything close to a 20ft screen.
    The biggest room I ever installed in must have been at least 100ft by 50ft and he sensibly had the room sectioned off for,pool table,table tennis table etc but curtained part of the room off for his cine 9 with a 10ft screen.
    I always thought "home cinema" meant cinema at home and if I wanted to see a screen far bigger than I have at home,guess what? I would go to the cinema.
    If we are taught to sit around 2.5 screen widths (or more) from the screen, and that the we require the abscence of light,to be able to achieve anything like a true black,then the above mentioned scenario would mean the customer is sitting at least 50ft from the screen,and must be wearing a welding mask to improve those blacks.
    There will of course be the odd person or two wanting huge screens but I prefer to live in the real world where the average lounge is perhaps a 16ft by 12ft or 20ft by 10ft.
    I simply have to agree with Alaric here,evey year they say they are geting closer,its "simply becomig a little boring hearing this every year,of course and without a single doubt,one day they will surpass the mighty crt.....but when I ask you?
    So I am the first ot admit that not everyone can even hope to accommadate a crt,nor for cosmetic reasons either,so everything has its place and the fixed panel units produce an eminently watchable picture,with millions of happy owners.
    But... on a 6ft-8ft screen in a correctly lit (or not in fact) room,are the good 8" and 9" crt's really under threat yet? and dare I ask how much this quailia costs?

    so I suspect it may be Dinosaurs for courses

    james (CRT)
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,174
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +3,004
    James: Just because you've not seen screens that size in folks theatres doesn't mean they don't exist or that folk do not want them. Right now I am working with a client who has a room with a screen wall width of around 35ft...I'm not expecting we'll be using a 10ft wide screen for it.....Even on a 12ft wide screen a fixed pixel display could have a go at outperforming a crt. Incidentally the larger the image the darker black is from a fixed pixel...so no need for welding masks.

    I take your poiint though that my example was extreme.

    I am not saying it's all over for CRT or that they are not of superb performance I am saying that it's folly to presume they are the be all and end all and that will always outperform fixed pixel competition. Me I'm happy to choose from both camps and offer my clients the best advice without blind prejudice to one technology or another.

    Gonna call it quits now....

    Gordon

    p.s. Qualia is looking at around £15-20000 I think.
     
  20. Vince M

    Vince M
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    479
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Lagoa
    Ratings:
    +0
    Jeez Gordon..you shifted the goalposts there! :rotfl:

    I Was also under the impression as James mentioned,we were talking about the home?
    Admittedly Al Pacino in Scarface probably had the 20ft screen and an all white room-cant recall seeing the Qualia though? :D
    Mind you ,would he have known he had the Qualia-or cared ? he was whacked out of his tree on cocaine..(..thats why the 20ft screen-he had trouble seeing that..)
    So I guess there is a design/install market for columbian or cuban drug barons in multi million dollar mansions where biggest is best-but I dont know I would recommend the Qualia-which after all was released to be Sony`s flagship replacement for the G90 and designed for the home-though the Sony chairman said-quote:-"In three product releases he sees Qualia as being CLOSE to the quality of the G90"..thats progress for you!

    So returning to the real world from the steamy jungles of Columbia where Gordon seems to be working now :D -for the home,crt picture is still the ultimate if you can accomodate the space needed..

    ..Unless of course you are in a columbian mansion-or gods waiting room!

    "Say hello to my little friends"!!!!!!!!! :rotfl:
     
  21. Paul D

    Paul D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2000
    Messages:
    2,735
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +534
    By Gordon
    Couldn't have said it better. :thumbsup:

    You used to have the two camps (fixed panel/CRT) who had strong opinions, and now we have a new third camp who are more open minded.

    You have CRT diehards who just refuse to admit panel PJs can give a decent picture.
    Then you have the (mainly newbies) fixed panel brigade, who have never seen a properly set up CRT!
    The first camp refuses to believe the truth, the second doesn't know what the truth is!

    The third camp wants quality, but not at ANY cost... :nono:

    Time IS precious, and more and more people are willing to sacrifice some picture quality elements to save time/effort.
    Others just don't see a "big" difference between the two.
    Size CAN be a issue, with the larger PJs not being an option.
    Some people wish to use their Pjs for things other than movies watching.
    Different people value different things when it comes to picture quality.(some think sharpness/brightness is king, others blacks)

    One element rarely mentioned when CRT picture quality is mentioned, is actually achieving it!!!
    Sure, if you are well up on CRT maintainance/adjustment/calibration or prepared to pay someone to do it for you, then CRT is far from finished.

    I personally felt swamped by my CRT.
    I knew it had the potential for stunning images, and felt very happy with it for the first few months.
    Then some components blew, leaving the image less than best.(focus)
    Because i bought from Roland, i knew i was in safe hands to get it fixed.
    However, this didn't happen straight away as i had to wait until i could be fitted in.
    Weeks went by without enjoying my PJ.
    Once fixed, i was happy again until i tried to add some new scan rates/resolutions.
    I noticed the colours and saturations changed with each new addition.
    I found out this was due to the beam spot changing with scan rate, and the scan lines changing with resolution.
    I wasn't sure if the calibration Roland had done would still be accurate, or even relevant to the new settings.
    Lower refresh rates caused flicker, higher ones softened the picture.
    I couldn't be sure even if i got it all right, that the picture might not have been optimal due to the age/condition of the PJ.

    So at NO time could i ever be sure i had the best picture, as there were just too many things to get right.
    (I hope you noticed i never mentioned the normal maintainance things like convergence/Geometry, as i accepted i would have to do this when i bought it)

    People will always mention CRT blacks as the best, and if we are talking about fade to black, then i agree.(the very reason i got into CRT)
    Shadow detail is less straight forward.
    I found with my CRT, i had to lose some shadow detail to get a "flat" black base level.
    I believe even the top CRTs may have to slightly raise black to achieve good shadow detail.
    You need liquid coupling to reduce haloing.

    Having said that, most budget/mid priced fixed panel Pjs are simply unable to show decent shadow detail in the first place! :rolleyes:
    But some can/do, and for the most part can have better looking blacks than many CRTs.(ANSI CR)
    Anyway, that discussion has been done to death.(and will go on for many years yet!)


    I was very fortunate last year in being able to choose any projector i wanted.(Including a Cine9)
    But i decided i couldn't give a flying **** which camp gave the best image in "optimal" conditions.
    It had to be practical for everyday life as well.
    I wanted to watch films, play games and play around with my HTPC knowing the PJ would always be giving it's best. Plus i didn't fancy playing Half-Life on a £25,000 CRT!

    I had unwittingly became a video engineer with the CRT.
    I was spending more time fiddling than actual watching, and even then i would adjust something before a film had played through.

    So decided "practicality", and NOT just "convenience" would be the deciding factor.
    Hence the purchase of the Marantz S3 DLP.

    I made an informed decision based on multiple demos and professional advice, taking into account both the upsides and downsides.

    Would the Cine9 have gave a better picture? = err Yes
    Would "i" be prepared to spend the time/effort it needed = No

    "The proof is in the pudding"

    18 months later and i'm still totally smitten by my Pioneer 868 DVI->VP12-S3 combination.
    EVERYTIME i switch it on, it gives the same quality image. (Good or bad!!!)
    EVERTYIME i switch resolution/refresh rate, it gives the same quality image.

    I have watched more films in the last 18 months than i did in the previous 3 years.
    What's more, i have enjoyed every single one as i don't analyse the image anymore.

    I have a better image now than i ever had or could have out of a CRT, as there is less for me to cock-up!
    Others on here could probably get a better image out of a pre-war cathode-ray tube :devil:

    CRT is here for a long time yet, or at least until parts are un-available etc.

    I'm happy, surely that is all that counts?

    Ps
    can't wait for SKY HD via HDMI....(sorry, below the belt!)
     
  22. crteaman

    crteaman
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    428
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    Hi Paul,

    Excellent post very well put and laid out logically too,Gordon remember I come from pauls third and open minded camp as well,in fact I recently installed two high end dlp units one on a 9ft screen the other a 10ft.
    As a former boss once told me,don't assume that the correct product for a customer is the one you think they should have,choose the one that's right for them and as we both know they are two very different things.
    Re-read my post and you will see I never mentioned "crt's will always outperform panels"?? I also mentioned on those that can accommodate them,and in correctly lit rooms on a 6-8ft screen,so I too have no prejudice,as paul said crt isn't for eveyone.
    As you know I have a 9" crt on a small (72"screen) my room is small just 16ft by 12ft
    (gordon I bet you are scratching your head re:my spkrs in a room this small he he)
    I have hi-def from dvhs and muse etc upconverted from 1080i and it looks breathtaking,as you know,and as we all know my system isn't for everyone out there,most would fail to get it past the decorating committee (er indoors) if there was a unit out there that was shoebox sized that could perform like my big ugly beast,i would truly be the first in line.
    I am both very pleased and proud of my system as we all are,(alway's striving for better though) with each of our systems,does my system bring me any more enjoyment than a chap with a £1000 projector of course not.
    Just wan't people to know how wonderful crt still is and its not dead yet, infact someone on this forum suggested I should have some folk over soon,a kind of demo day,don't know if anyone out there would be interested,I am always prepared to put effort in.
    Gordon, with my small room I dont think I can create an "event three" i'm afraid,more like an event 0.5, I know guys such as Thunder and Alaric are not so far away.

    james (crt)
     
  23. Boris Blank

    Boris Blank
    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2000
    Messages:
    1,761
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Outpost 31
    Ratings:
    +208
    Slightly OT. Given my current level of knowledge of crt pj's, I would NEVER have purchased a non LC pj had I been aware of halo'ing etc. For me, if I went back to a crt it would have to be a LC unit, anything less and its just not worth the hassle. If I'd bought an LC unit, likely I'd still be using a crt rather than an LCD. My only gripe with an LCD is black levels. My many gripes with a non-LC crt is halo's, black bars that change when something bright is on screen and washout of dark areas in bright scenes.

    I bought an LCD as its less hassle than a non-LC projector. When LC-crt pj prices fall to reasonable levels (and they will), I'll buy one. If LCD's/DLP's reach 6000+ CR out of the box then I'll get one of these instead.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the prices of crt's are dropping by the day. The price drop reflects the market interest and interest is dropping rapidly.

    No-one is arguing that LCD/DLP is better (or equal) overall in an average home environment at the moment but the gap is closing rapidly. 6000:1 CR on the Sony is possible NOW, a year ago I'd have laughed if someone had said that this would be possible in a consumer unit LCD. Who knows what the next 12 months will bring?

    Edit - oops, meant to say excellent post fulabeer, mirrors my crt experiences in many ways.
    Edit 2 - removed a comment that may be mis-construed
    Paul
     
  24. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,174
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +3,004
    Sorry James: I was having a very stressy day.......we are all agreed then, CRT is Great....but there may be other alternative medacines available....and you may not have to go to Columbia to get them :)

    Gordon
     
  25. crteaman

    crteaman
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    428
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    Gordon you don't have to explain the stress to me,I think we must bethe only two guys in dear ol' blighty doing the same thing in the way that we do it mate.
    My install day's are 15 hour plus,sometimes up to five day's back to back (9" kit and audio etc) I know you will be nodding your head to this.
    Yes indeed we are all agreed,only one thing to sort out now,on the medicine topic Gordon,any idea where I can get anything to make my hair grow?

    also on another note I need to have a chat with you re: bob t's cine 7,any evenings you are available for a chat? I only have one number for oyu 015 no is this the best number?

    james (crt)
     
  26. Orbital

    Orbital
    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Midlands
    Ratings:
    +4
    ooo I think this is my first ever post that's run into two pages! - :D

    Thanks for your post Paul, you summed up very eloquently how I’m starting to feel towards my BD800.

    As I said before, when we move the cinema room into it’s new home I’ll be purchasing a new projector. I took it pretty much for granted that it would be another CRT, an 808s or something similar as I’ve never been able to get along with the wonky blacks of LCD’s and as luck would have it I can see a rainbows on a DLP at hundred paces. So when I saw this titchy little DLP and I couldn’t see any rainbow at all I was quite shocked and then I started thinking “that picture doesn’t look to shabby at all” and “I could play Half Life 2 and not have to constantly worry about screen burn!” This is when the scales tipped for me. As Paul said, as much as we’d all like the ultimate in picture and sound convenience also plays a major part. Between my job and my family I don’t have a whole lot of time to play around with G2 settings and raster sizes. If I had the time and the inclination I’d have another CRT in a heart beat, but at the moment I have neither so a trip to the dark side (or should that be dark grey side :) ) is almost certainly on the cards.
     
  27. Vince M

    Vince M
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    479
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Lagoa
    Ratings:
    +0
    Returning to the title of the thread-the end is nigh...
    Though I appreciate this thread has changed to what can be accomodated in a setup & the fact that some cant be bothered with the idiosyncracies associated with crt and opt for a more convenient solution & what the customer wants etc-I feel that a paralel can be drawn with high end audio.

    There are those that strive for the ultimate in sound quality,who have massive speakers,esoteric cables..pre/power combos and quite probably spend more time fiddling than the guy with a midi system(o.k. too extreme a difference..)-the guy with a middle of the road av receiver and a middle of the road speaker system then.

    Neither group gets any less enjoyment in their own ways-arguably the guys that are prepared to sacrifice the quest for the ultimate sound for convenience are probably more content.

    Nevertheless,this does not change the fact that the best sound will come from the esoteric kit.

    Deep down those who have opted for convenience and simplicity in their setup KNOW that they dont have the best sound.

    Its the same with video..crt can be a pain for sure-its not convenient-its not easy.

    But when has the quest for perfection in image -or sound -been easy? Its in the fire the steel is forged..you have to understand the thunderstorm to appreciate the sunshine..and other such trite sayings..but its true..perfection has never come easy.
    We all like to feel to some extent that the next dlp darkie chip mk 6 will be the EASY answer..the exorcism to release us from the demon of crt-I have done it myself-i have made forays into digital and tried to convince myself that the picture was good enough,it was plug and play..easy solution..and almost as good as top level crt.
    That no longer would i have to go through the complexity of crt.
    Of course it wasnt-and still isnt-but i wanted to believe that for domestic bliss and simplicity & for the fact that we all want the easy way out!

    Always though i returned to crt for that picture magic that could be had -with some effort its true-but picture magic all the same!

    I do empathise with people who have given up on crt because of all the factors above and dont decry them for their decision-I have done the same..but personally i would rather have one year of picture magic than 5 years of not.
    With the advent of HD DVD and HDTV from SKY we all deserve a display device that can show that to optimum,certainly 9" crt and 1080p is a match made in heaven-if one can accomodate it.
    HDMI from SKY a problem for crt? no way,you can buy a box now that will take HDCP encypted DVI and defeat on the output into RGBHV..

    What I hear a lot of are "excuses" not to buy crt-not one of them is because they TRULY believe that crt picture quality is bested.

    Thats fine..there are secondary factors like convenience,ease of use,approximation of a good picture etc..that come into play.

    But for me I am interested in the primary factor-what has the best picture? How can I accomodate it?
    Yes im still p***ed that i cant get it in a small box,but i want the best picture i can get-not an approximation of it..its my hobby first and foremost-and until i can equal crt picture quality in a small box i will not trade quality for convenience.
    Its too big a compromise for me.
    So is the end nigh for crt? I dont think so,it will continue with those that want the optimum picture-as I think deep down we all do-
    Maybe thats the only difference between dlp`ers and crt`ers? -who is prepared to compromise on ultimate picture quality..and who is prepared not to?

    What is amusing is that for a few years now people have been sounding the death toll for crt-yet its still here...and still holds the high ground in the picture stakes,even most that argue against crt admit that!

    I would love everybody to have the best possible picture they could-if that came out of toasters then I would argue the case for toasters! :)

    We talk of Home Cinema..the best sound ..the best picture..
    Often crt/digital threads can get "iffy" with everyone ardently defending their purchases and their rationale for why crt doesnt work for them..or why digital doesnt work for them etc..
    What does annoy me with digital is the manufacturers-who every few months bring out a new "improved" model effectively devaluing that important purchase that someone has had to make with their hard earned cash!

    Its almost conning the consumer in my eyes and as such I would have preferred if this whole "period" with single chip dlp had never happened-I Would have preferred cost effective 3 chip off the bat.
    The same as I would have preferred dvd to never have happened-we had hi def laserdisc then we leap backwards just for a tiny convenient disc..

    Filler technologies thats all..

    Ill turn away from crt in a heartbeat when there is a 3 chip dlp capable of 1920 x 1080 for 2 grand that gives 98% the picture quality of top crt-hell ill compromise on 2% :) -or maybe when GLV or something similar is 3k.

    But until then ill keep my hand in my pocket and "suffer" the crt content in the fact that the picture quality can be AWESOME! :hiya:
     
  28. crteaman

    crteaman
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    428
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +6
    Pj dreams, What can I say,one of the better posts I've read,very well put indeed sir!
    A little spirited debate never hurt anyone,goodness are we all poloticians in the making?
    Anyway,as said very well put which should bring closure (and in a nice way) to this excellent thread.

    james (crt)
     
  29. Rob

    Rob
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2000
    Messages:
    1,285
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +33
    A good post indeed!

    I too went through the stage of auditioning the latest & greatest DLPs, it would have been a whole lot easier to try and accomodate one of these in my rather small room, but at the end of the day, I'd have been kidding myself. (I've not had a problem with the rainbow effect, but I don't consider painting-by-numbers skin tones, or a screen-door effect in light areas acceptable, sorry!)

    When the day comes when a CRT can be matched,(for sensible money) I'll be the first to move over. Its not a case of CRT users "refusing to believe the truth" as Paul says, but believing what they see :) Each to thier own of course.

    Regards Rob.
     
  30. Orbital

    Orbital
    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    512
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Midlands
    Ratings:
    +4
    That's a bit of a sweeping statement wouldn't you say? As some of the newer DLP's (Sony HS-50 for example) that I've seen give lovely skin tones and have no screen door effect at all. I think the difference in picture quality between the latest DLP's and a middle of the road CRT is closer than some CRT owners would liker to admit.

    I don't want to start the debate all over again as I think between Paul's and PJ Dreams posts they sum up everything pretty much spot on. But the comment above is just incorrect IMHO.
     

Share This Page

Loading...