The dreaded ‘old system sounds better’

WiseNormsk

Novice Member
Hi all

Just needing a sense check on the most likely variables here…

Having bought the start of a new system at my gfs flat that on paper should knock pants off my current set up at my place, it’s not really feeling like it. Rooms are pretty similar (both in London Victorian terraces) - so just wanted to hear from you guys which culprits would be next to play with…

OLD:
Denon x2300 av receiver
Jamo C93
Jamo C9 centre
Jamo C91 surround
REL T zero sub
(Tried my amateur best to integrate sub - think I did an ok job)

NEW:
Denon x2700 receiver (so basically same model level)
Kef LS50 meta
Kef R2C centre

the difference is across movies (obvs sub and rears a big thing there), music both bassy and non bassy.

the Jamos just seem so much more full, present, fun. Make the Kefs sound completely lifeless to be quiet honest.

should a sub help (1400 for the matching kef one!)? Is the receiver way too weak for the KEFs? Or did I make a bad purchase and this is just personal pref that my old much cheaper set up suited me just fine?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The X2700 simply isn't good enough for the LS50s. A sub may help with taking the responsibilities for frequencies below 80hz but it's the Denon itself that's lacking. The KEFs need good power to perform and then will be very rewarding and a low level AV amp just won't cut it with those speakers.

You will get an improvement with introducing a sub into the movie mix, something that you should really consider anyway let alone for helping with the bass. Stereo music is the Denon's Achilles' heel, always has been. Don't go for a KEF sub either. Take a look at BK subs, much better, much cheaper.

 

WiseNormsk

Novice Member
The X2700 simply isn't good enough for the LS50s. A sub may help with taking the responsibilities for frequencies below 80hz but it's the Denon itself that's lacking. The KEFs need good power to perform and then will be very rewarding and a low level AV amp just won't cut it with those speakers.

You will get an improvement with introducing a sub into the movie mix, something that you should really consider anyway let alone for helping with the bass. Stereo music is the Denon's Achilles' heel, always has been. Don't go for a KEF sub either. Take a look at BK subs, much better, much cheaper.

Appreciate the comments - and yeah pretty much what I was hoping for as an assessment.

Was silly of me to not go for the 3700 with pre-outs. Nearly did but the upgrade to a dedicated stereo amp addition felt far enough away - just didn’t realise how much it would struggle to drive the kefs! I guess the jamos are pretty easy to drive.

the plan on that front is to add a lyndorf tdai 1120. But that’s 2k plus 1k for pre out receiver 😣

good point on the sub, though have heard a load of great things about the kef one and how well it integrates (+ visual factor from better half of course). We shall see… first step is to bring the rel over and try it out.
 

WiseNormsk

Novice Member
I should add - surrounds and sub always part of the plan… just haven’t got round to sorting them amidst other flat related tasks!
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The Lyngdorf does work well with the LS50s as it has good power reserve for the drops to 3.2 ohms. Personally I use a Rega Elicit-R alongside my Denon X6500 for stereo music which is driving KEF R300s. Significant difference in quality even with the X6500. Unfortunately with no pre-outs on the X2700 you do have a dilema as the more speakers you add to the set up the less power there will be to drive the speakers.

The LS50s are a totally different beast to the Jamos and perhaps you should give your brain more time to adjust to the different signature. A sub will certainly help and allow more power to be used for the mids and highs above 80hz. The LS50s should roll off at 80hz when running Audyssey, the R2C certainly will, more likely 40hz.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Nobody at all seems to be taking the room into consideration. Better speakers will sound better but they'll still have problems in a room with no EQ and a good EQ at that.

No amount of magic cables or DAC's or power amps can fix this. The Lyngdorf 1120 is completely different to all other HiFi in how they go about getting the best sound in your room and yes it commands a deeper pocket and a system without a half decent sub leaves a good deal of information out of the music.
 

WiseNormsk

Novice Member
Nobody at all seems to be taking the room into consideration. Better speakers will sound better but they'll still have problems in a room with no EQ and a good EQ at that.

No amount of magic cables or DAC's or power amps can fix this. The Lyngdorf 1120 is completely different to all other HiFi in how they go about getting the best sound in your room and yes it commands a deeper pocket and a system without a half decent sub leaves a good deal of information out of the music.
That’s what I’m hoping - that the 1120 RoomPerfect and a decent sub will make the system sing in the room.
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
That’s what I’m hoping - that the 1120 RoomPerfect and a decent sub will make the system sing in the room.

Go See @Rob Sinden at Gecko Home Cinema in Newbury - there is an 1120 hooked up these little Lyngdorf speakers and sub which embarrass systems costing way much more, it's pretty freaky.

And check out the big Steinway boys while you're there it's a serious eye opener. Or alternatively around October you can head up to St. Albans and see Rich @Seriously Ltd (The Smart Trilogy) he will have all sorts of stuff on dem in their new showrooms including the 1120 and I think is the only shop of it's kind in Europe, I would encourage anyone else nearby or farby to go see him if even just to be nosey.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Room Perfect is just one manufacturers solution to EQ and Bass EQ, it will do nothing to address the fact that you prefer your old kit tbh. There is only a presumption its the room isn't there ?

Plus they are evidently similar
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member
Room Perfect is just one manufacturers solution to EQ and Bass EQ, it will do nothing to address the fact that you prefer your old kit tbh. There is only a presumption its the room isn't there ?

It's one of the most comprehensive EQ systems out there, backed up by more peer review than any other system in it's class. Someone might have preferred their old kit, but that in no way stipulates that there isn't better to be had.
 

WiseNormsk

Novice Member
Room Perfect is just one manufacturers solution to EQ and Bass EQ, it will do nothing to address the fact that you prefer your old kit tbh. There is only a presumption its the room isn't there ?

Plus they are evidently similar
on certainly don’t think the room is the only part of it.

I think what seems to be clear from the above is that the new denon, still being entry level, isn’t enough to drive the ls50s, whereas my current speakers are more forgiving. And the absence of a sub is also leading to a less rounded sound.

of course - I guess we will find out if I just end up having a preference for my current, much cheaper, kit! That’ll be a very expensive experiment 😂
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
on certainly don’t think the room is the only part of it.

I think what seems to be clear from the above is that the new denon, still being entry level, isn’t enough to drive the ls50s, whereas my current speakers are more forgiving. And the absence of a sub is also leading to a less rounded sound.

of course - I guess we will find out if I just end up having a preference for my current, much cheaper, kit! That’ll be a very expensive experiment 😂

Well i assume you are also quite intrested in the home theater too as you bought so expensive center channel so the first thing that needs to go is the Rel T-Zero. I don´t know would forum members even call that a subwoofer as it has same size driver that is found on your Jamos (6,5"). Good woofer is requirement with the LS50 Metas. They are quite bass shy on their own and rely on quality woofers. You don`t need to spend 1400£ however if you don`t want to. If you want to keep using both LFE (Denon) and high level connection (Lyngdorf) then consider example BK XXLS400 which allows simultaneous use. It would be huge step up from the Rel for both movies and music listening. There is reason why this is still so popular after +10years within members. Of course there is better products if you spend nearly twice amount, but if looking great bang for buck then:


 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
It's one of the most comprehensive EQ systems out there, backed up by more peer review than any other system in it's class. Someone might have preferred their old kit, but that in no way stipulates that there isn't better to be had.

Rock you're sounding like Rob !
 

Rock Danger

Distinguished Member

JDXAV

Member
Considering you're in a flat in a converted house, are you even going to get to run a sub at decent volume without neighbours banging on your door?
 

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