cableman
Established Member
UPDATE YOU MUST REPEAT MUST HAVE THE HDMI DIRECT BUTTON SET TO ON THIS OFFERS A DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT IN SOUND AND ALSO A BETTER PICTURE. see below....
It's a long review. It will be updated and revised from time to time. If you own a Denon AVP and even if you don't it might give you an insight into the mysterious world of after market modification.
Here goes...
1) I am sooooo not a fanboy of the AVP. In fact I may have been the first person on here and on the American sister site to actually CRITICISE the AVP which I found to be stunning in its mediocrity particularly sound wise. I got hell for that lol.
2) prior to this mod I had experienced two Cinemike products, their own HDMI cable which I was VERY happy with and is now firmly ensconced in my system, and their modded Denon 3313 BD which was a major improvement in both sound and picture over the off the shelf model. I was the first person in the UK to evaluate it. Others have now confirmed my findings
3) I have no financial interest in Cinemike and no other connection to them other than as a consumer of their products which I will happily admit to being so far impressed by. I am also most appreciative of their communication, which i consider of near paramount importance, and their insistence on making things better. They are great as a go- to place when things just ain't working right. They know this machine like no one I know.
Ok. Set up more hassle than I expected. Apparently there's a bug whereby if you chose to set levels manually, which I always start with just to check all speakers are connected and working, it won't give a subwoofer level. You need to select a surround mode to get a sub signal. weird! That's 45mins of I life I won't ever get back lol.( thx CM).
With CM forgetting to put in the new mic when he sent the processor back and despite my wish to do an immediate like for like Auydessy comparison, I wanted to get things started, so out came the SPM and digital tape measure and Video Essentials Disc - for generating tones. A good poster on here advised me to use external tones rather than the ones generated by the AVP. That caused me huge problems- more of which later-but we got there in the end.
First I set the levels with the internal AVP tones then I compared them to the external ones generated from the VE disc. The difference was significant. 2-3dB across the board. Setting the sub accurately with the SPM is pretty damned possible so I took a median level and settled it there. Having decided the external tones levels reading was the one to go with now I needed to copy them into the AVP speaker levels. How? No bleeding idea. Looked everywhere. Spend two hours, couldn't find how to do it. CM came through eventually. He told me to press the OK button. No such button exists. He meant the CH SEL button. He told me this would give me an overlay on the screen. It didnt. It did however show the levels on the machines small screen but dropped back out after only about 3secs. THEN disaster, the machine would lock up EVERYTIME. So I'd switch off the machine then switch on agin and have to go through the levels one by one. A very tedious process and not one I was confident was accurate.
I had someone at the machine taking down the numbers from the machine's screen. I was by the SPM with two remotes. One for the BD player and the other with the CH SEL button. This wasnt really working. So... numerous emails back and forth with CM and others and now CM tells me to switch ON the scaler and switch off Video Direct. Why the hell didnt he mention that before. Pressed the big button, big graphic on the big screen. Voila!
I now do this all again, but on my own and manage to circle the various speakers without it coming out of the graphic and hence not freaking out/locking up. The VE essentials disc doesn't have surround back speaker tones so I set them with the AVP tones but reduce them 2dB to compensate for the discrepancy ( see also below)
I start with sky satellite. I always do. No XT32 obviously.
Was that some motion blur? I think it was. Check some other HD channels. All clear. Must be the signal from the US Tennis Open. ( or was it, ill keep a note). Some minor jaggies I think. Maybe maybe not. Again note to self to check again.
Picture looks clean detailed, colours strong. Better than before? Maybe. But certainly not degraded now that I'm going through the processor as opposed to direct to PJ. Sweet.
What's the most important channel in any AV set up? The centre channel obviously. It's where the vast majority of the audio is...er, channeled. So that's the one I listen to most closely. Bottom line...it's sooooooo much better; its clearer more defined/ refined. Speech has far more gravitas. Easier to follow and understand. Commandingly so. Previously a touch sibilant,gone now.
If nothing else THIS is a good reason to get the upgrade mod done by CM but of course there's more. Much more. The overall sound was by far the best I've achieved in my non dedicated movie room. More involving more realistic less annoying that feeling "something" just ain't right. ( Unlike my two channel set up which is as near damn perfect well at least the best audio I've EVER heard - despite visiting hifi shows and dealers for years, all over the world). The surrounds were even more dramatically improved. I've never been happy with them. I am now! Not too 'in your face'. It helps that I set them to 72dB not 75 after reading something recently as to why 72 is correct..more info, more immersing.What was perhaps previously borderline discernible, not a bit of it now.
Bass? Well what can I say. In order to compare like for like I'm running two subs together in series- for now. I do want to connect my second sub direct to the SW2 output on the AVP then free assign SW2 to SW1 in order that the AVP 'sees' them as one sub ( someone advised me that was a better route, ill try everything) but I can't figure out how to do this. Help appreciated please. So for now they're in series. Again, all good. Controlled floating realistic. Better by far!
More to follow. Feel free to chip in to comment criticise complain
So now the mic has arrived and now Ill check things using Audyssey XT32. THIS should be interesting. Still checking using Sky Sat for now.
So I set the 8 positions and check the results. AUD has changed all speakers to small. I'd previously set xovers at: F/C/SURR all at 40Hz. SB at 80Hz. Now everything was still 40Hz except SB which had been set to 60Hz. I thought this was odd. Anyway....
The biggest surprise was the totally different settings AUD had now for speaker levels and distances. ALL different. Hmmmn
Previously I'd preferred FLAT.
But now....
AUD compared to OFF. AUD more middley, bit 'boomy', slightly 'cupped'; OFF clearer but thinner but slightly sibilant yet more open. OFF was better.
OFF vs AUD FLAT: closer. FLAT still very good OFF is still more natural but I could live with FLAT.
I compared OFF with my old level and distance settings which I'd set using external tones and a SPM and a digital tape measure
First impression? Yeuch. Where's the bass. It's flabby and uninteresting. Yes the vox are quite fine but the bass is not. Not liking this one bit. The old adage springs to mind.... If it ain't broken....
But just to be sure I need to reset everything and compare again That's next.
Verdict? Not even close. The old settings are better. Bass is back vox crystal clear. So far Audyssey XT32 is losing. Big time. So far....
HDMI DIRECT : today I played with it some more. I hadn't previously as it affects the overlay screen required to quickly alter some level settings which i needed for the sub set up Id been working on, more of which later.
Result : YOU MUST SET HDMI DIRECT TO ON FOR BEST SOUND AND A BETTER PIC. bass more rounded , tighter, extended; vocals clearer more distinct overall just a more informed enjoyable involving surround sound. PERIOD.
It's a long review. It will be updated and revised from time to time. If you own a Denon AVP and even if you don't it might give you an insight into the mysterious world of after market modification.
Here goes...
1) I am sooooo not a fanboy of the AVP. In fact I may have been the first person on here and on the American sister site to actually CRITICISE the AVP which I found to be stunning in its mediocrity particularly sound wise. I got hell for that lol.
2) prior to this mod I had experienced two Cinemike products, their own HDMI cable which I was VERY happy with and is now firmly ensconced in my system, and their modded Denon 3313 BD which was a major improvement in both sound and picture over the off the shelf model. I was the first person in the UK to evaluate it. Others have now confirmed my findings
3) I have no financial interest in Cinemike and no other connection to them other than as a consumer of their products which I will happily admit to being so far impressed by. I am also most appreciative of their communication, which i consider of near paramount importance, and their insistence on making things better. They are great as a go- to place when things just ain't working right. They know this machine like no one I know.
Ok. Set up more hassle than I expected. Apparently there's a bug whereby if you chose to set levels manually, which I always start with just to check all speakers are connected and working, it won't give a subwoofer level. You need to select a surround mode to get a sub signal. weird! That's 45mins of I life I won't ever get back lol.( thx CM).
With CM forgetting to put in the new mic when he sent the processor back and despite my wish to do an immediate like for like Auydessy comparison, I wanted to get things started, so out came the SPM and digital tape measure and Video Essentials Disc - for generating tones. A good poster on here advised me to use external tones rather than the ones generated by the AVP. That caused me huge problems- more of which later-but we got there in the end.
First I set the levels with the internal AVP tones then I compared them to the external ones generated from the VE disc. The difference was significant. 2-3dB across the board. Setting the sub accurately with the SPM is pretty damned possible so I took a median level and settled it there. Having decided the external tones levels reading was the one to go with now I needed to copy them into the AVP speaker levels. How? No bleeding idea. Looked everywhere. Spend two hours, couldn't find how to do it. CM came through eventually. He told me to press the OK button. No such button exists. He meant the CH SEL button. He told me this would give me an overlay on the screen. It didnt. It did however show the levels on the machines small screen but dropped back out after only about 3secs. THEN disaster, the machine would lock up EVERYTIME. So I'd switch off the machine then switch on agin and have to go through the levels one by one. A very tedious process and not one I was confident was accurate.
I had someone at the machine taking down the numbers from the machine's screen. I was by the SPM with two remotes. One for the BD player and the other with the CH SEL button. This wasnt really working. So... numerous emails back and forth with CM and others and now CM tells me to switch ON the scaler and switch off Video Direct. Why the hell didnt he mention that before. Pressed the big button, big graphic on the big screen. Voila!
I now do this all again, but on my own and manage to circle the various speakers without it coming out of the graphic and hence not freaking out/locking up. The VE essentials disc doesn't have surround back speaker tones so I set them with the AVP tones but reduce them 2dB to compensate for the discrepancy ( see also below)
I start with sky satellite. I always do. No XT32 obviously.
Was that some motion blur? I think it was. Check some other HD channels. All clear. Must be the signal from the US Tennis Open. ( or was it, ill keep a note). Some minor jaggies I think. Maybe maybe not. Again note to self to check again.
Picture looks clean detailed, colours strong. Better than before? Maybe. But certainly not degraded now that I'm going through the processor as opposed to direct to PJ. Sweet.
What's the most important channel in any AV set up? The centre channel obviously. It's where the vast majority of the audio is...er, channeled. So that's the one I listen to most closely. Bottom line...it's sooooooo much better; its clearer more defined/ refined. Speech has far more gravitas. Easier to follow and understand. Commandingly so. Previously a touch sibilant,gone now.
If nothing else THIS is a good reason to get the upgrade mod done by CM but of course there's more. Much more. The overall sound was by far the best I've achieved in my non dedicated movie room. More involving more realistic less annoying that feeling "something" just ain't right. ( Unlike my two channel set up which is as near damn perfect well at least the best audio I've EVER heard - despite visiting hifi shows and dealers for years, all over the world). The surrounds were even more dramatically improved. I've never been happy with them. I am now! Not too 'in your face'. It helps that I set them to 72dB not 75 after reading something recently as to why 72 is correct..more info, more immersing.What was perhaps previously borderline discernible, not a bit of it now.
Bass? Well what can I say. In order to compare like for like I'm running two subs together in series- for now. I do want to connect my second sub direct to the SW2 output on the AVP then free assign SW2 to SW1 in order that the AVP 'sees' them as one sub ( someone advised me that was a better route, ill try everything) but I can't figure out how to do this. Help appreciated please. So for now they're in series. Again, all good. Controlled floating realistic. Better by far!
More to follow. Feel free to chip in to comment criticise complain
So now the mic has arrived and now Ill check things using Audyssey XT32. THIS should be interesting. Still checking using Sky Sat for now.
So I set the 8 positions and check the results. AUD has changed all speakers to small. I'd previously set xovers at: F/C/SURR all at 40Hz. SB at 80Hz. Now everything was still 40Hz except SB which had been set to 60Hz. I thought this was odd. Anyway....
The biggest surprise was the totally different settings AUD had now for speaker levels and distances. ALL different. Hmmmn
Previously I'd preferred FLAT.
But now....
AUD compared to OFF. AUD more middley, bit 'boomy', slightly 'cupped'; OFF clearer but thinner but slightly sibilant yet more open. OFF was better.
OFF vs AUD FLAT: closer. FLAT still very good OFF is still more natural but I could live with FLAT.
I compared OFF with my old level and distance settings which I'd set using external tones and a SPM and a digital tape measure
First impression? Yeuch. Where's the bass. It's flabby and uninteresting. Yes the vox are quite fine but the bass is not. Not liking this one bit. The old adage springs to mind.... If it ain't broken....
But just to be sure I need to reset everything and compare again That's next.
Verdict? Not even close. The old settings are better. Bass is back vox crystal clear. So far Audyssey XT32 is losing. Big time. So far....
HDMI DIRECT : today I played with it some more. I hadn't previously as it affects the overlay screen required to quickly alter some level settings which i needed for the sub set up Id been working on, more of which later.
Result : YOU MUST SET HDMI DIRECT TO ON FOR BEST SOUND AND A BETTER PIC. bass more rounded , tighter, extended; vocals clearer more distinct overall just a more informed enjoyable involving surround sound. PERIOD.
Last edited: