The denon avp mod. Major mod improvement just found

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cableman

Active Member
I think that's a very fair point. We've both been trying to do the same things – informing the community about the benefits of certain equipment mods. There are similarities – but key differences as well. TUC never do demo loan units – you have to buy one to try one – whereas we have both benefitted from a CineMike loan unit.

We've also done side-by side comparisons with both stock and competing products to try and establish the value of the mods. I've always said (and few people appreciated this) that it's not enough to simply detect an improvement – the improvement has to be greater than simply moving up-market.

Its fair that there should be other similarities. When I described the improvements of the TUC mods, I was greeted by a wave of scepticism at AVF, and vilification at AVS. Why would this thread be any different? I think you've had it really easy in comparison.

Regards, Nick

Thank you Nick

Isn't it hilarious that Luddites cry out for evaluation and info but when you do the heavy lift and give it to them you are then vilified cos it doesn't fit with their world view and their herd mentality. And of course none of these Luddites who slag others for daring to swim against the tide ever do the work themselves far less detailed evaluation

Sad also that as soon as you praise something out of the ordinary youre immediately branded a collaborator or financially benefitting. Did the AB amps guys get it in the neck for their vain glorious fanning. Or the Datasat fan boys etc etc

As you may well know I've had my fair share of flames. But I like to think I give as good as I get. I can't abide close minded cloth eared sheep

Pathetic and cognitively dissonant eh?
 
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Mr_Sukebe

Active Member
When you chaps have quite finished using policitian levels of vocabulary...

As a starting point, I certainly don't see myself in a position to judge any product unless I've actually experienced it. Like most of us here, that includes CM gear.

I stand by my comment of "this is best resolved by a get together". It was a serious question.
Do you chaps ever make it over to the UK. Would be ace to setup a listening session to compare to some other kit.
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
And of course none of these Luddites who slag others for daring to swim against the tide ever do the work themselves far less detailed evaluation

Sad also that as soon as you praise something out of the ordinary youre immediately branded a collaborator or financially benefitting. Did the AB amps guys get it in the neck for their vain glorious fanning. Or the Datasat fan boys etc etc

As you may well know I've had my fair share of flames. But I like to think I give as good as I get. I can't abide close minded cloth eared sheep

Pathetic and cognitively dissonant eh?

I have been following this thread to see how it pans out, but just to comment for now regarding the rather inflammatory and elitist attitude that seems typical in this thread (as bolded above): It immediately gets people's backs up (mine included I don't mind admitting) that the attitude is that as shown above for daring to disagree or even question the comments in this thread.

It doesn't do you any favours IMHO.

I've been a very positive owner of JVC projectors over the years, so I know what it's like to find something that you are really happy with and want to pass this onto the rest of the forum. However, I still accept that there are other alternatives that may be more suitable for different users and their circumstances. Plus I don't treat them with disdain just because they chose to take a different path from mine.

I'd also be interested to hear if you have even tried using Audyssey set up. I know that it seems frowned upon by the German cognoscenti, however in the spirit of investigation and searching for sound improvements, surely it would be worth at least trying it out with your own ears to find out if you like what it does? Perhaps you may surprise yourself, or perhaps you'll just confirm the German opinion, however not to try it having spent so much time and money seems like a missed opportunity. In fact it could almost be deemed to be a Luddite view. ;)
 

cableman

Active Member
I have been following this thread to see how it pans out, but just to comment for now regarding the rather inflammatory and elitist attitude that seems typical in this thread (as bolded above): It immediately gets people's backs up (mine included I don't mind admitting) that the attitude is that as shown above for daring to disagree or even question the comments in this thread.

It doesn't do you any favours IMHO.

I've been a very positive owner of JVC projectors over the years, so I know what it's like to find something that you are really happy with and want to pass this onto the rest of the forum. However, I still accept that there are other alternatives that may be more suitable for different users and their circumstances. Plus I don't treat them with disdain just because they chose to take a different path from mine.

I'd also be interested to hear if you have even tried using Audyssey set up. I know that it seems frowned upon by the German cognoscenti, however in the spirit of investigation and searching for sound improvements, surely it would be worth at least trying it out with your own ears to find out if you like what it does? Perhaps you may surprise yourself, or perhaps you'll just confirm the German opinion, however not to try it having spent so much time and money seems like a missed opportunity. In fact it could almost be deemed to be a Luddite view. ;)

Hahahaahhahahahahahahahahaah you TOTALLY missed the point. WE have done the work and WE are getting slagged. Why? Cos Luddites are feeling threatened. All HDMI is the same. Mods are cons Digital is digital. Etc etc

It's WE who have the guts and conviction to stand by our evaluations and not go along with the fan boys like sheep. WE are the ones who have " dared to disagree". And WE are ones who's honesty is being doubted. May I suggest you read the thread through again Sir.

If some Luddite wished to suggest we're in any way the pay of a modder than the LEAST he deserves is to be called out!
 
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cableman

Active Member
When you chaps have quite finished using policitian levels of vocabulary...

As a starting point, I certainly don't see myself in a position to judge any product unless I've actually experienced it. Like most of us here, that includes CM gear.

I stand by my comment of "this is best resolved by a get together". It was a serious question.
Do you chaps ever make it over to the UK. Would be ace to setup a listening session to compare to some other kit.

You've thrown out thinly veiled accusations. Care to have the simple decency to take them back now?:thumbsdow
 

Mr_Sukebe

Active Member
You've thrown out thinly veiled accusations. Care to have the simple decency to take them back now?:thumbsdow

With all due respect, I've suggested an opportunity for members of the forum to get together to actually experience the kit first hand, as personally I unaware of a better method to evaluate the benefits.
Clearly you guys are incredibly positive about the products, so surely if we could get this session together, that it would be a really easy way to gain better traction with the people on the forum and improve the word of mouth marketing.

So which option would you prefer, would it be:
1. Throw around catchphrases suitable for the national press about my earlier post, and attempt turn this into a debate which I've zero interest in being involved in
2. Be rather more positive about the opportunity to give us some genuine exposure to the gear
 

cableman

Active Member
With all due respect, I've suggested an opportunity for members of the forum to get together to actually experience the kit first hand, as personally I unaware of a better method to evaluate the benefits.
Clearly you guys are incredibly positive about the products, so surely if we could get this session together, that it would be a really easy way to gain better traction with the people on the forum and improve the word of mouth marketing.

So which option would you prefer, would it be:
1. Throw around catchphrases suitable for the national press about my earlier post, and attempt turn this into a debate which I've zero interest in being involved in
2. Be rather more positive about the opportunity to give us some genuine exposure to the gear

Thankyou for confirming that you have NO BASIS whatsoever for your hilarious barb.

Which option would YOU prefer :

1) apologise and take back your accusation

2) go to germany and see and hear the blooming thing(s) for yourself

3) neither, and have us doubt your agenda

I ain't here to do anyone's marketing. I don't think those who have experienced CM modes are either
 

BobbyMac

Banned
Thankyou for confirming that you have NO BASIS whatsoever for your hilarious barb.

Which option would YOU prefer :

1) apologise and take back your accusation

2) go to germany and see and hear the blooming thing(s) for yourself

3) neither, and have us doubt your agenda

I ain't here to do anyone's marketing. I don't think those who have experienced CM modes are either

Who is "us"?
 

cableman

Active Member

BobbyMac

Banned

cableman

Active Member

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
Hahahaahhahahahahahahahahaah you TOTALLY missed the point. WE have done the work and WE are getting slagged. Why? Cos Luddites are feeling threatened. All HDMI is the same. Mods are cons Digital is digital. Etc etc

It's WE who have the guts and conviction to stand by our evaluations and not go along with the fan boys like sheep. WE are the ones who have " dared to disagree". And WE are ones who's honesty is being doubted. May I suggest you read the thread through again Sir.

If some Luddite wished to suggest we're in any way the pay of a modder than the LEAST he deserves is to be called out!

I didn't TOTALLY miss the point at all...I was calling you out on the generally rudeness/abrasive tone about anyone other than 'us' (whoever 'us' is). Pointing out that you aren't doing yourself any favours with this attitude with the continual insulting of anyone who hasn't heard these modifications (even if we are asking hopefully useful questions like 'have you tried out the Audyssey function after the mod?').

I haven't made any suggestion about who you are in the pay of either, so I would appreciate being treated with the same respect as I am trying to treat you.

SO once again...have you tried the AVP using Audyssey since you have had the modifications done and how do you find it? If not, do you intend to try it out?

I have an interest in room correction, but I am currently using an older AV processor that I happen to like the sound of, but has no HD decoding (Arcam AV9) and I'm considering upgrade options. Having heard room EQ demonstrated and knowing the limits of my own room having measured it (and modelled it in REW) I feel that it may be of us to me, but only if it doesn't degrade the sound quality of the processor. I am trying to be open minded about possible upgrade paths, so I'm interested in whether you feel the sound with room EQ is better/worse/just different.
 

mattkhan

Distinguished Member
Hahahaahhahahahahahahahahaah you TOTALLY missed the point. WE have done the work and WE are getting slagged. Why? Cos Luddites are feeling threatened. All HDMI is the same. Mods are cons Digital is digital. Etc etc

It's WE who have the guts and conviction to stand by our evaluations and not go along with the fan boys like sheep. WE are the ones who have " dared to disagree". And WE are ones who's honesty is being doubted. May I suggest you read the thread through again Sir.

If some Luddite wished to suggest we're in any way the pay of a modder than the LEAST he deserves is to be called out!
the question is whether you expect a meaningful discussion about the equipment or not? if you want the former then immediately responding with random insults, no matter whether you think they are warranted or not, will get you nowhere.
 

cableman

Active Member
the question is whether you expect a meaningful discussion about the equipment or not? if you want the former then immediately responding with random insults, no matter whether you think they are warranted or not, will get you nowhere.

U impune my integrity, that will be my response everytime

I notice the original poster of the slander has sloped off

Anything to add to the debate Sir?
 

Mr_Sukebe

Active Member
I'm bowing out at this point to leave it to the mods to clean up if they so see fit.
 

cableman

Active Member
I didn't TOTALLY miss the point at all...I was calling you out on the generally rudeness/abrasive tone about anyone other than 'us' (whoever 'us' is). Pointing out that you aren't doing yourself any favours with this attitude with the continual insulting of anyone who hasn't heard these modifications (even if we are asking hopefully useful questions like 'have you tried out the Audyssey function after the mod?').

I haven't made any suggestion about who you are in the pay of either, so I would appreciate being treated with the same respect as I am trying to treat you.

SO once again...have you tried the AVP using Audyssey since you have had the modifications done and how do you find it? If not, do you intend to try it out?

I have an interest in room correction, but I am currently using an older AV processor that I happen to like the sound of, but has no HD decoding (Arcam AV9) and I'm considering upgrade options. Having heard room EQ demonstrated and knowing the limits of my own room having measured it (and modelled it in REW) I feel that it may be of us to me, but only if it doesn't degrade the sound quality of the processor. I am trying to be open minded about possible upgrade paths, so I'm interested in whether you feel the sound with room EQ is better/worse/just different.

Did you " call out" the abuser? No? Why not?
 

cableman

Active Member
I'm bowing out at this point to leave it to the mods to clean up if they so see fit.

I hope the mods will note you impugning my and other integrity.

Apparently if you write positively about a mod company who's work you have paid for and are happy with the results you get insinuations from the likes if you about some dodgy goings on. I trust you will retract before you go
 

KelvinS1965

Distinguished Member
Did you " call out" the abuser? No? Why not?

I think you've done that yourself, no need for me to add any further rudeness to the thread.

As it looks like I'm not going to get a reasonable answer to my previous questions so I'll leave it. If you've got five minutes, have a look through my recent posts and you'll find most of them trying to help other forum members...I was only hoping that I might get similar help from yourself, never mind. :(
 

mattkhan

Distinguished Member
U impune my integrity, that will be my response everytime

I notice the original poster of the slander has sloped off
one poster did yes, a simple "no I do not have a vested interest" would suffice instead of all guns blazing at anyone who dares to post in the thread!
 

cableman

Active Member
I think you've done that yourself, no need for me to add any further rudeness to the thread.

As it looks like I'm not going to get a reasonable answer to my previous questions so I'll leave it. If you've got five minutes, have a look through my recent posts and you'll find most of them trying to help other forum members...I was only hoping that I might get similar help from yourself, never mind. :(

Show an even handed approach and so will I
 

cableman

Active Member
one poster did yes, a simple "no I do not have a vested interest" would suffice instead of all guns blazing at anyone who dares to post in the thread!

Did u suggest anything different to the slanderer?
 

mattkhan

Distinguished Member
Did u suggest anything different to the slanderer?
I haven't suggested anything about your motives at all. I have simply commented that the responses you're getting are entirely predictable given the way you are replying hence my Q was whether you want a discussion or you just want to shout at anyone who does anything other than 100% agree with you? At the moment, it looks like the latter.
 

cableman

Active Member
I haven't suggested anything about your motives at all. I have simply commented that the responses you're getting are entirely predictable given the way you are replying hence my Q was whether you want a discussion or you just want to shout at anyone who does anything other than 100% agree with you? At the moment, it looks like the latter.

i stand by my reaction to the slander and to all who criticized my reaction whilst ignoring that slander
 

Mr_Sukebe

Active Member
Cableman,

ENOUGH.

Lets deal with this straightaway.
I assume that this is the statement you are NOT happy about:

...The biggest issue I see here is an apparent and obvious bias towards CM gear, almost as though you chaps had actual ties or interest in their business.

In no way have I stated that I am AWARE of any actual ties between your two companies and I certainly have made any attempt to state that this is a fact.
Just so you FULLY understand my intent, this was as a QUESTION, allowing you to actually confirm that you genuinely have no ties.


Taking this forward.
Libel is the written method to "reduce the standing or reputation of the person to whom the words are applied".

Links here:
Moderators and defamation - UK Business Forums
UK Law, UK Law forum, Defamation - What are Defamatory Words, , def, , , [email protected], David Swarbrick

Now, I've qualified my statement FULLY, such that you can understand where I'm coming from.

This is a two way street however, and you have made a DIRECT accusation of slander (which as it happens would need to verbal, but let's not get overtly technical eh).
So, I'll ask politely, back off or I'll raise a second report to the mods about your behaviour.
 

cableman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Mr_Sukebe View Post
...The biggest issue I see here is an apparent and obvious bias towards CM gear, almost as though you chaps had actual ties or interest in their business.

your inference is quite clear ITS YOU WHO SHOULD BE REPORTED!

wheres your apology for this libel then???????

some people eh? throw out unsubstantiated accusations and engage in hilarious semantics, then when theyre called out try to pay the victim card

no ones fooled
 
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