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The decline of these boards

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by Dirk 2, Mar 18, 2002.

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  1. Dirk 2

    Dirk 2
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    Well I'm sorry to be controversial, but I feel that the quality and quantity of posts on these boards is deteriating.

    Despite some, knowledgable and articulate long timers, most of the posts seem to cover the same old ground. How often do we read "what is super bit?" or what is "Criterion", or which should I buy" or "is it cut?"

    Common, please, there are a wealth of websites and resources available to answer such questions. I and a good many others manage to keep abreast of such information.

    A year or so ago, there were excellent indepth debates on allsorts of aspects of DVD releases. From content, presentation, marketing etc. Now this site becomes more of an FAQ for the lazy.

    Go on, flame me if you see fit, but I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.

    Please note that my comments are aimed purely at the "DVD Talk" thread.
     
  2. alanrob

    alanrob
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    I have to disagree with your points. Okay a lot of what is talked about in this forum is going over old ground, but a lot of people don't have the knowledge of the product so ask questions of those who know more.

    You don't have to read these threads or reply to them if you wish, but to say that these people shouldn't ask these questions is very bad form!

    I come here to help those who don't know as much as I know about a topic and I also ask my own questions of things I know little about. If you think these questions have been asked before then fine, but please let the newbies and those who have very little techno know-how ask their questions.

    After all, that's what this forum is all about - getting more people into AV kit and how best to use and understand it. It isn't just for those who have a full understanding of all AV things!
     
  3. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Dirk

    What utter nonsense.

    There was a time when you didn't know what Superbit was.

    If the bulletin board is fading a bit (not sure I agree anyway) then it's attitudes like yours that discourage new members and help it to die off.

    Gary
     
  4. bh

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    This is not a flame Dirk but a constructive reply. I think some members have expectations of peers' knowledge that hasn't changed with the changing home cinema landscape. With any mass market there will be those who want information quickly and at little or no effort. Forums such as these often offer the path of least resistance.

    Remember: a DVD player does not a Home Cinema afficionado made. We may confuse the direct relationship between the two and assume that all members have the same motives in terms of willingness to help others versus requirements for help. After all in the general chat forum , members are recounting their first steps into HC, often consisting of VCR links to stereo equipment. This reflects a slightly different mindset of exploring technology and getting the most out of your equipment. Understanding and learning is key here. For most, Home cinema isn't their hobby - DVD is simply the latest way to "get good pictures and sound and a few extras". So what, who cares.


    As for thread title, I don't agree. It is simply more varied and needs more moderating. Yes there are some people (trolls) can't resist antagonising behind the veil of anonymity.

    Finally, the variety of the discussion is often fuelled by the longer standing members of the forums who, as this as any other community develops, feel that they can discuss a wider variety of issues and themes.

    Vive la difference!
    :D
     
  5. Dirk 2

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    Sure everyone needs to learn the basics at some point. That if why a FAQ on the most relevant points should be established.

    No, my point is that there seems to be an increasing element of lazy posting and a lack of effort to research a subject to any degree.

    Anyone remember the indepth and stimulating discussion that was had in regard to the poor R2 Predator release. It covered, censorship and a discussion of potential deleted scenes. It also debated the poor marketing policy of FOX UK. When was the last time such a debate has happened.

    There are several knowledgeable members that seem to have reduced their amount of posting. Sure they will answer others questions but no longer seem to submit a topic themselves. Why? Due low response to such threads.

    No I still stand by my posting. It is not a flame, or a troll or an insult. I think it just reflects the high turnover in members that is ineveitable on such boards.
     
  6. LV426

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    I have to agree with the disagreement here! One of the main functions of a forum like this is for those of us that have knowledge about any aspect of this wonderful hobby to share it with those of us that either know little at all, or who know much, but have a gap in that knowledge.

    And I don't think it matters AT ALL whether a request for knowledge or opinion comes from someone who, say, has never heard of regional coding, or whether it comes from someone who knows much on the subject but has a small gap in their knowledge on a more detailed matter, like, say, why does 100hz processing make no difference to an LCD display?

    I like to think that I am quite knowledgeable on many aspects of HC, but there have been many cases where my knowledge has been increased by reading questions and answers here.

    I can sympathise, however. Every time I see another post that goes "just bought a XYZ-HC1000UK widescreen TV and a matching XYZ-DV250 DVD player - why am I still seeing black bars....." I feel like screaming. But you have to have patience, and, once again, try and explain why.....
     
  7. mjn

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    although i agree about the "superbit" questions, and the "black bars still appear" questions........the people who ask these questions, just have to look at the FAQ page to find their answers.

    But i think the more annoying thing is....the people who type sentences, without reading them afterwards.....and when you(forum member) comes to actually read it, it makes no sense!!

    And this happens a lot...!
     
  8. Brianjhussey

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    Speaking as a new member here is my twopenn'rth:

    I am recently retired, though still under 60 and am relatively new to both home computing and Home Cinema. And no expert at either.
    In fact, HC is too grand a term for my equipment which is basically a 32 inch tosh widescreen TV, a tosh VCR, a 210e DVD player and a Philips Digital Terrestrial Receiver.
    Despite having read the usual magazines, HCC and What Video and TV etc for a couple of years, I have learned more from this forum in the last couple of months and have been inspired to acquire a more comprehensive system. I am still at the planning stage but part of the strategy in the not too distant future, was to post some questions concerning RPTV, receivers, speakers and a better specified dvd player.

    I have been mightily impressed at the way in which many members respond in a friendly, informative, helpful and encouraging manner.

    If I should be doing some more research before repeating irritating questions, please point me in the right direction.
    Brian.
     
  9. delta

    delta
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    Most of the 'lazy posters' on these forums are newcomers or first-timers, many of whom have never accessed a forum before. It takes time for some people to find their way around and to appreciate the wealth of information that is available here. Additionally the number of members and guests is growing so there will appear to be more 'lazy postings' whereas it is quite likely that, pro-rata, there are fewer now than there were a year ago.

    It is to be expected that many contributors will simply want to ask a question and receive an answer without having to search through the forums, there is nothing wrong with that, that is why so many members are happy to provide time and answers for such enquiries.
     
  10. lmccauley

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    Brain - Welcome!

    There are various articles here and here that you might want to peruse at your leisure.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  11. Dirk 2

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    So you predict and accept a continuous cycle of members re-iterating the same points? Is this desirable. Proportinally, I still have seen little evidence that the quality or debate at present is upto the standard of last year.

    Why not set up, as I stated earlier, an FAQ on certain topics. Why not provide links to such resources as the BBFC webite or IMDB or informative sites such as "bullets and babes."

    I accepts that everyone was a newbie once, but it does no harm to try and educate members to explore and grow in knowledge themselves. The internet runs on user contribution, and it is vital to encourage both giving and receiving. Why not establish a newbie thread, were moderators can move mis-posted topics.

    It's not about exclusion, but encouraging a greater degree of participation.
     
  12. ashearer

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    Up until a couple of months ago, I would have considered myself a "newbie" in Home Cinema terms. I did a lot of research in magazines like Home Cinema Choice but I learnt more spending an hour in this forum than in months of magazines. I posted a couple of basic questions which I could have probably found the answer to if I had searched enough. To be honest, I don't have the time and one of the things I like about this forum is that people are friendly and patient and I received helpful answers to my questions.

    I am now able to help out people newer to HC than me (and even more on the games side as I have been into that for a long time) and I find it very satisfying. As Chris Tarrant says "it's only easy if you know the answer".

    I would have thought we want to attract people to this forum. Your attitude seems to be to make it more elitist. If it goes that way, I will go elsewhere.
     
  13. Brianjhussey

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    Liam,

    Many thanks for the welcome.
    Also for the informative websites, which I have saved for a more detailed study later.

    Brian.
     
  14. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Dirk2,

    OKay, my response is coming from a newly-appointed Moderator's viewpoint, as well as being a young 'un's view. (I'm only 24!)

    Firstly, without meaning to sound rude, or controversial or sarcastic, you have to understand that not everyone who comes to this (or any other) forum, will be an expert in the fields of Home Cinema and/or DVD's. As such, whilst many topics do come up over, and over again, it is not really fair to just constantly make new members sift through an FAQ thread.

    Sometimes, just locating the damn FAQ page on a website can be as frustrating, as actually reading people writing about what does "widescreen" mean, etc, etc.

    Secondly, no one is making you read all threads in this particular Forum. As others have already pointed out, if you visit any other kind of Forum, you will always find a pattern of certain questions being asked. However, that does not mean that people should not have their questions answered politely. After all, the newbies of today, will hopefully become the new "knowledgeable members" or "Moderators" of tomorrow, just as I have become. ;)

    Finally, if you feel there is a lack of interesting debate and/or discussion, why don't you suggest some subjects to be discussed, or even start a thread yourself. Sometimes some of the most interesting debates come from the most inane of threads! And, in my opinion, than can be really good fun - seeing where subjects lead us.

    Whilst no one is saying they wouldn't like more variety, there is only a finite amount of topics on DVD to be discussed. And, sometimes in a forum like this one, it is easy for information on a particular topic to get scattered about all over the place. As such, someone looking for a specific piece of information may not necessarily find it with any ease.

    Anyway, I'll let you respond to my points, if you so wish, but don't get too disheartened about repeated topics. Sometimes you have to give something, to get something. :)

    Pooch
     
  15. Dirk 2

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    I have provided answers and helped individuals on many occassions, too.

    I am not advocating an elitist approach. I have not expressed such sentiments at all. I have implied that there has been an decrease in quality debate, and that there should be a approach to educate and stimulate, rather than spoon feed.

    Also, I would point out again that my comments were particularly aimed at the "DVD Talk" threads and not any of the techie threads.

    My concerns are that we'll lose the indepth, eloquent posting of such contributors as Pooch and Rambo John J, and be left with nothing more than such postings as "this film rules" and "this sucked" etc.

    Does this clarify?

    Edited after reading Pooch post:

    Sometimes you have to give something, to get something.

    I totally agree. But my concerns are that this can be a little onesided sometimes. Learning is not always about just being giving the answers.

    Take MP3's for example, more people download them than those encoding. There is potential for the whole process to grind to a halt.

    BTW, I shall endeavour to participate to a higher degree (as I did prior to autumn last year) to expand scope and debate.
     
  16. ashearer

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    I think Pooch is going to prompt some interesting debate with his last post on the Die Hard thread......
     
  17. Dave H

    Dave H
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    I agree with Dirk on some points mainly the decline of posts full stop.
    some days when I go on there are only four posts for the whole day!
    a year a go it used to be much busier and it was a good read, nowadays I find it hard to find anything interesting.
    PS Dirk did you ever watch the new Robocop box set or did it crash your player.
    Dave.
     
  18. alanrob

    alanrob
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    What forum are looking at m8?
    When I logged in again after 18:00 there had been over 60 new posts since I was last on at 14:00.

    Okay, this isn't the most used forum on the web, but it still gets a massive pounding during the day. Click on the view today's posts on the front page to see how many threads have been either started or responed to since midnight. Just a few.
     
  19. buns

    buns
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    I think of this forum more as a place to go and relax, reply to different people, give opinions (right or wrong) and learn from it. I'm not in the least bit bothered going over basic stuff, its very annoying and off putting when you dont get responses, so i like to try and to reply to everything i can.....in the end of the day the worst harm i can do is post nonsense that everyone ignores!

    I would agree that there are fewer posts that stimulate....but i think thats my problem, everyone is interested by different things! If you cant find something to ring your bell......well then post someting!!

    just my opinion......i wouldnt change these forums for the world......well......

    ad
     
  20. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Dirk - it amuses me that you complain about lazy people, but you yourself are too lazy to have looked for and found the FAQ we have here.
    In the forum rules, I have stressed that people should search for their answers in previous questions as this is often the fastest way of finding the info they want.
    With regard to the FAQ, I am thinking about opening it up to certain informed and trusted forum members so that they can edit and insert FAQ items. All this, of course, to expand the useful knowledge base. Anyone up for this?
    I certainly do not feel that the forums have gone down hill. Quite the opposite.
    A month's post stats for Dave:
    · # Date
    · 516 March 18th, 2002
    · 391 March 17th, 2002
    · 297 March 16th, 2002
    · 610 March 15th, 2002
    · 628 March 14th, 2002
    · 714 March 13th, 2002
    · 666 March 12th, 2002
    · 618 March 11th, 2002
    · 392 March 10th, 2002
    · 388 March 09th, 2002
    · 484 March 08th, 2002
    · 581 March 07th, 2002
    · 540 March 06th, 2002
    · 500 March 05th, 2002
    · 535 March 04th, 2002
    · 309 March 03rd, 2002
    · 370 March 02nd, 2002
    · 477 March 01st, 2002
    · 520 February 28th, 2002
    · 496 February 27th, 2002
    · 501 February 26th, 2002
    · 617 February 25th, 2002
    · 364 February 24th, 2002
    · 321 February 23rd, 2002
    · 456 February 22nd, 2002
    · 488 February 21st, 2002
    · 688 February 20th, 2002
    · 474 February 19th, 2002
    · 373 February 18th, 2002

    Dave - you probably wrote the maths exams which were a shambles this year. :rolleyes:

    Lastly to Brian Hussey - you are exactly the sort of person I hope will enjoy these forums. We want to attract the 60+ folks as well as the younger generation and this is precisely why we have the 'adult' philosophy with regard to how forum members treat oneanother. I'm glad you have been inspired.
     
  21. pointon

    pointon
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    That's dangerous ground Spectre, :eek: Brian said he wasn't yet 60. That's one surefire quick way to make an enemy... ;)
     
  22. Lex

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    It has reassured me that so many people have posted to disagree with Dirk.

    I think what dirk is missing is that the DVD forum is about more than just the exchange of information, it is also, and to my mind more importantly, about meeting and talking to people with similar interests.

    Dirk says that:

    "My concerns are that we'll lose the indepth, eloquent posting of such contributors as Pooch and Rambo John J, and be left with nothing more than such postings as "this film rules" and "this sucked" etc."

    Well where are your eloquent and indepth postings Dirk?

    Lex.
     
  23. Dirk 2

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    Well Lex, I find you a rather poor choice of moderator, as your reply boarders on the offensive (if I allowed it to be). Is this really necesary?

    I have posted lengthy posts in the past that others have found useful.

    Spectre, I wasn't referring to FAQ you mentioned. Subsequently, wasn't being lazy. I would like to see a specific one dealing with the subjects I mentioned in my earlier posting. I agree with your idea of allowing contributors to edit and update it.

    I am rather dissappointed that a valuable constructive crticism has been met with such hostility, and that time has been spent in trying to critisize and "rubbish" me rather than address the issues.
     
  24. alanrob

    alanrob
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    Haven't we all addressed the issues you raised?
    I think you'll find most of use don't mind replying to newbies about topics already covered in the forum.

    An FAQ would be a good idea, but if you have to spend ages reading it then it isn't worth most peoples time. You'd be quicker posting a question and getting someone who doesn't mind covering old ground again to answer it.
     
  25. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Hi Again,

    Okay, now before this degenerates into a complete slanging match, I would just like to try and bring this particular topic to a reasonable end, before people start saying things they may regret - myself included.

    Dirk - we do appreciate your comments, honestly, even if it doesn't appear like we did. :) No one was trying to discredit you, or make you out to be the "ogre" of our DVD gang, I promise.

    I have noted your comments, and tried to see your views from both your side, those of me being a Moderator, and that of the views of regular posters to this forum, and this is how I see things standing:

    1) The number of postings on this board varies all of the time. I do believe it does get a lot, but somedays, you may find only a few responses. I think the same probably applies to every forum, regardless of what topic it may be discussing.

    2) Most people on here, do NOT object to replying to "newbie-style" questions. It can be frustrating, at times, to have to explain for the Nth time, what "widescreen" is all about, but like others have pointed out, its sometimes easier to give a quick response, than to say "Just go and read the FAQ list, bozo", or some such reply. If all of us did that, then we'd never get any new members, and would probably alienate many more of the regulars as well.

    3) The forum will only ever be as interesting, as we all make it! If none of posted new questions / concerns / issues or whatever, then the forum would quickly disappear. If you do want to make it more interesting, then try starting some threads yourself. Yes, that might mean posting something a little controversial maybe, but it can often lead to some of the most interesting debates! And by controversial, I don't just mean "dodgy", I mean contentious or stimulating discussions.

    4) Everyone here has a life outside of this forum. As such, that can include families, work responsibilities and a host of other things that take priority. This forum is really meant - as far as I am concerned - a meeting place where we can all discuss aspects of DVD's, and films as well. Sometimes we'll be busy, sometimes it will be deserted. Such is life, I'm afraid. However, more often than not, the forum has enough posters to make 9 out of 10 visits here, worthwhile replying or responding to something.

    Anyway, I've gabbled on enough for now. As you can probably tell, I'm one of those people who tends to write a lot! :D

    I'm sure none of us want to see you leave the forum over what is ultimately nothing more than a disagreement of opinion. I know I wouldn't want to see you go. So hang around a little bit longer, try posting something else, if you can, and then see what happens.

    Take Care, okay. :) :)

    Pooch
     
  26. Rambo John J

    Rambo John J
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    Aww shucks:blush:
     
  27. Lex

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    Dirk,

    I am sorry you interperated my comments as offensive. They were never intended to be. I do not wish to cause anybody on these boards offence. I was however trying to make a firm point. Whatever your intention in starting this thread the result was that you offended many people new to these forums and made them feel unwelcome and self-conscious about posting in the future.
    It seems that nobody else shares your opinion that talking to, and offering answers to, new members is annoying or wasting time.
    Maybe, to you, saying that a film 'rules' or 'sucks' is not very clever. However for many younger members, this is the way they talk - whether you like it or not. There are, I know for certain, young children and teenagers who post on these boards who were upset by your comment.

    You say you wish there was more in the way of in-depth discussion. Well why not attempt to instigate some yourself... As I said earlier, and as was pointed out by Spectre, there has not been a high level of contribution from you lately, so who are you to criticise others? In making this point I have no desire to "rubbish" you (I'm sure you are a very nice guy), but it is a charge you left yourself wide open to in starting this thread.

    I am sure nobody wishes this thread to go on much longer, but I felt I needed to respond to your, in my opinion, unnecessary questioning of my position.

    All the best,

    Lex.
     
  28. pointon

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    My thoughts: I don't think there are any issues to address here. Dirk, your argument is a shallow one, and is basically either snobbery or just laziness. Either you feel aloof to anyone with a lesser level of knowledge to yourself, or you just can't be bothered to repeat an answer for the sake of it. If you feel like this, simply pass the thread in question by and let someone who genuinely wants to help answer instead. This is one of the main purposes of this forum, and the fact that so many people come here for help just proves that this forum is only increasing in usefullness and reputation. The only decline comes when people don't want to help others, and make unproductive comments like yours.

    I mean no offence, but this is the way I see your argument.
     
  29. Dirk 2

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    Closing points, in regard to my original post. I expected my opinions to be controversial, but they were not intended to be counter productive. I am not against the sharing of information. I would like to see a more streamlined approach to its dissemination.

    As for "shallow" and "aloof", well I don't agree there either. This board needs fun, lightherted and irreverant postings, as well as other more indepth discussions. My concerns centre around balancing the two. This does not mean that I advocate elitism.

    I withdraw any critical comments made towards the moderators. It is easy for me to take a particular stance, whilst their impariality does not always afford them such a luxury.

    It all comes down to your own point of view and perception. It is obvious that my outlook is not shared by others. So it is time to move on and lay this matter to rest.

    I will endeavour to participate to a greater degree, for my own pleasure and to support the forum community.
     
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    I've just discovered this forum and I think it's excellent covering the whole of home cinema in one place.

    And if you are after in-depth analysis I suggest you try a Shakespeare Forum, after all these are films on shiny, silver discs, how 'in-depth' can you be on that subject?!

    That said a "Ask the Experts" forum for those less educated than yourself may be a good idea.:p
     
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