1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Creative Zen Sleek which ... well, isn't

Discussion in 'Headphones, Earphones & Portable Music' started by shadowritten, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hands up who's held the new Creative Zen Sleek?

    Okay, keep your hand up if you think it earns its name.

    Anyone?

    This thing is still a brick! Compared it side by side recently with a 20GB Zen Touch. Okay, so it's a bit slimmer all round. But it's hardly HD5 sized - now that really IS sleek!

    I was bitterly disappointed ... though glad I narrowly avoided buying one.
     
  2. Pecker

    Pecker
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    22,136
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Huddersfield, People's Republic of Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +4,355
    I haven't held one, but I've seen one 'up close'.

    It looked pretty sleek to me.

    Dictionary definition:

    sleek
    adj. sleek·er, sleek·est

    Smooth and lustrous as if polished; glossy: "brushed her hair until it was sleek."
    Well-groomed and neatly tailored.
    Healthy or well-fed; thriving.
    Polished or smooth in manner, especially in an unctuous way; slick.


    Note - according to this definition, sleek has nothing to do with size.

    Steve W
     
  3. mcfarfs

    mcfarfs
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,367
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Tunbridge Wells
    Ratings:
    +12
    Maybe so, but I would say the most common interpretation of the word "Sleek" is small, and streamlined. Which, as Shadowritten says, the Zen isn't!
     
  4. Wykey

    Wykey
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Commonly interpreted by people who don't know what it means....
     
  5. Steven

    Steven
    Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    36,436
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +6,222
    In this instance, Creative obviously are implying the 3 S's: its smooth, slick and small. This is real-life, thats how a casual consumer would presume it to mean...not smooth, slick and err big
     
  6. Wykey

    Wykey
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    You actually think Creative assume people are going to think it to mean something it doesn't ?

    It doesn't even imply smallness, size isn't mentioned anywhere in the definition.

    How odd.
     
  7. L11

    L11
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    323
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +7
    Yes
     
  8. Steven

    Steven
    Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    36,436
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +6,222
    Stop being so picky/pompous/petty. People do not go into a shop and pull out the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary for a definiton of a product name/description

    Its marketing speak. So sleek means its slick, smooth and small. It may not technically mean that, but thats most certainly what Creative want the public to think
     
  9. dups45

    dups45
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    187
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +0
    stop being so pedantic, since when did the ipod nano use nano technology, and the mini wasnt exactly mini now was it
     
  10. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Pecker: point taken.

    Wykey: Yes, I DO believe the general public will assume 'sleek' to equate to 'slimness' or 'smallness' (at a push, in the case of the second of these two words). I did, and I'm a professional (advertising) writer who's very used to using words like this to ... shall we say 'embellish' the real meaning? In this case, I've fallen into my own trap - and wouldn't have known any better if I'd bought this item online without making a size comparison, as I'm sure many people will have done.
     
  11. Rockin_Amigo14

    Rockin_Amigo14
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    the sleek is friggin fine. so its not a sony? what is?

    the sleek beats its main competitor(ipod) in every aspect, INCLUDING weight.

    not to mention the buttons dont crack...
     
  12. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks for this.

    Not really my point, but I'm sure you're right ...
     
  13. mcfarfs

    mcfarfs
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,367
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Tunbridge Wells
    Ratings:
    +12
    Well exactly. I bet if you went up to people in the street and asked them what the word means, over 75% would say "small" or "streamlined", or words to that effect.

    Which the Sleek isn't.

    And you could hardly argue that the Zen is "glossy", or "polished". So even the literal definition of the word doesn't accurately describe the product.
     
  14. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    My point proven - thank you :thumbsup:
     
  15. Cloysterpeteuk

    Cloysterpeteuk
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Messages:
    4,262
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Whitby, North Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +837
    I would argue that it's the dictionary definition of the word that needs to be amended not people's interpretation of the word, remember language changes throughout history, new words come into use and the meaning of old ones evolve and change.

    How many youngster's even know that calling someone gay fifty year ago would never have been viewed as an insult, they would be surprised to learn that it meant happy, cheerfull etc.

    ==edit==

    How did this topic come to life on a DAP forum?.
     
  16. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Er ... or more correctly, that 'gay' didn't always refer to homosexuality. I think we're on dodgy ground referring to the term 'gay' in its modern meaning as an 'insult'.

    We're also horribly off-topic! :eek:
     
  17. Cloysterpeteuk

    Cloysterpeteuk
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Messages:
    4,262
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Whitby, North Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +837
    True but that is how children of today view the word, at least the vast majority. Even adults use the word as an insult. In an ideal word there wouldn't be such homophobic views, or at least we should expect people to be civilised and adult enough to not express such views to others, but for the time being at least the fact is that the term is very commonly used when inslulting other folk.
     
  18. johann1979

    johann1979
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    857
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    buttons don't crack anymore...

    EDIT: I also don't believe it's the majority of people that associate the word 'gay' with an insult. It is definitely the uneducated few that unfortunately just happen to be louder than than the more developed majority.

    The type of person that calls other people 'gay' in an insulting manner is very clearly a specific type of person and easily recognized, thus easily avoided too. But who am I to sit here and say anything about them calling me 'gay' when I blatantly call them 'inbred'... :)
     
  19. Wykey

    Wykey
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Absolutely staggering.

    I apologise for one and all for actually knowing what sleek means.

    Obviously I should simply decide on my own meaning for words and they *will* mean that.

    And then petition the OED because their meaning doesn't fit mine.

    :suicide:
     
  20. Wykey

    Wykey
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Nano is greek for dwarf. So quite conceivably it means something that is dwarflike in stature.
     
  21. DaveA

    DaveA
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    70
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    This thread is a load of rubbish.

    An sportscar can be sleek - no implication of size at all.

    It's all marketing speak. Bit like follow-turn on the HD5.
     
  22. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    And that's precisely my point: I think it's misleading :mad:
     
  23. DaveA

    DaveA
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    70
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Oh come on. You looked at the name and assumed it must be sleek?

    Beyond ridiculous! Like i said, sleek can be all things to all men, and it's not in the least bit misleading, it's just a name.

    Did you take your Parker pen back when you realised the Platignum nib was not platinum?
     
  24. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Er ... yes, actually. I, like many others, assumed (as Creative clearly intended us to) that with a name like 'Sleek' - ever heard of synonyms, btw? - Creative's latest toy would not be a house brick like many of its predecessors.

    I'm not alone in this, Dave, nor am I being ridiculous. Trust me: as a professional 'spinner' myself, I know how these things are played by companies. And yes, on this occasion - as sometimes happens to us all - I did fall for some of my industry's own bull. Sad, but true ...
     
  25. Wykey

    Wykey
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    46
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    It's not in any way misleading. You're completely wrong.

    That, is that.
     
  26. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    So Creative are marketing it as the Zen 'Shiny', are they? Or the Zen 'Smooth'? Do me a lemon!

    They've been clever, I'll give you that. They know that Trading Standards would come down on them like a ton of bricks if they dared to imply that 'sleek' is a direct synonym of 'slim'. So - knowing their new toy was far from slim - they picked a word that would imply slimness.

    Now, you can argue till you're blue in the chops that there's no relation between the words 'sleek' and 'slim', and technically, you'd be right. But go out this lunch time onto the streets and do a straw poll of passers by, and I'll bet you the vast majority of Jo Public will tell you that they equate the word 'sleek' with slimness or slenderness or somesuch.

    This isn't a question of what the Oxford English says. It's a matter of what most buyers - who, in the main, don't CARE what the dictionary says, anyway - THINK a word means or implies. As I've said already, I use such tricks in my job as an advertising creative (oh, the irony!) - and believe me, it works.
     
  27. dvdsubtitles

    dvdsubtitles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Um, I agree with Wykey...

    I've never associated the word sleek with being small. I think of a Lamborghini Diablo or Jaguar XJ220 as being a very sleek car - however, if you see either for real, they're both huge, much longer/wider than your average car.

    Likewise if someone described a phone/radio/whatever as sleek, I'd expect something that's smooth, futuristic and nice to look at. Size doesnt even come into it.

    Although I can understand how perceived meanings change over time even if they are wrong. This is the first time I've heard anyone suggest it should mean small though.

    Mat
     
  28. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Spoken like someone ignorant (using this word in its dictionary definition, not as an insult as some are wont to do) of how marketing works.

    No company EVER just picks a random name for a product! They invest thousands - and often, millions - in coming up with a solid marketing proposition. It's not a case of bunging a few names in a hat and letting the CEO's eight-year-old daughter pick one out.

    Their marketing agency sold the name 'Sleek' to them on the basis that Creative's previous large-capacity players have all been bulky - which is probably the only real criticism many customers would be likely to lay at their door. Knowing this new product was smaller, the marketing bods knew they needed to emphasise this. Which is what they'll have put in their brief to the marketing agency.

    The marketing agency will have gone through every possible connotation in the book (including the Zen Slim, I'll wager); but when Creative's legal people saw the shortlist, they'll have strongly advised against any direct implication of the product being slim - which I still maintain it's not; comparative to the Touch, yes, but not in wider DAP market terms.

    Hey presto, Creative settle for what was probably their third choice: Zen Sleek.

    If you've never pitched product branding at a client before, you can't expect to understand how this complex process works. And yes, it is often all a crock of poo! But that's how the game's played, I'm afraid ...
     
  29. shadowritten

    shadowritten
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Just to remind you, this is what you said back at the start of this thread. And I heartily agree with you - which is my point.

    I, too, even knowing what 'sleek' really means, automatically assumed its marketing context (outside of the haircare industry, naturally), and had images of slimness or slenderness. Not small, though: the iPod Nano has bagged the 'Impossibly small' thing rather nicely, IMO; even though they could've gone, with every justification, for 'slim' - though I doubt this would help that much to sell quite as many units in a world jaded by all things iPod. Say something is smaller than something else in electronics terms, however, and size really does matter!

    My main concern is for those who've not made side-by-side size comparisons with, say, the Zen Touch, and who'll automatically jump to the conclusion - aided by the marketing photography, which does suggest a certain slenderness - that the Zen Sleek is pretty damned slim indeed! "As its name suggests!", their cry will be ...
     
  30. guernica2000

    guernica2000
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Could you try and be more anally retentive? Go on, I bet you can.
     

Share This Page

Loading...