The Coaster-Files

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by QED, Aug 13, 2004.

  1. QED

    QED
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    At the same time as I bought my Panny E-85 I also bought a spindle of Ritek Ridisc Video Reel A-Grade (4x) DVD-R Disc and a few of you asked if I could let them know how they performed so here's an update.

    Incedentally, it would be good to continue this thread with other users experiences of other discs and recorders which they have been used in.

    Ritek Ridisc Video Reel A-Grade (4x) DVD-R Disc
    [​IMG]
    Recorder - Panasonic E85
    Results so far - burned 15 disks and produced 1 coaster
    All disks have been burned realtime, not highspeed.

    QED
     
  2. liteswap

    liteswap
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    327
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    East Sussex, UK
    Ratings:
    +1
    About the same as me: burned 10, 1 coaster, mosty high-speed though.
     
  3. nunew33

    nunew33
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    1,735
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Lytham St Annes, where people are put out to grass
    Ratings:
    +2
    made several coasters with bulkpaq orange. Now only use them on PC (which is a toshiba burner as it happens). No problems with ritek printables.

    Wouldnt write to a bulkpaq RW even though it started the format process. But when I burned a movie to RW on PC the Tosh reads it OK
     
  4. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I think the problem you have is that you are assuming just because they do not produce coasters immediately then they are good discs to buy.

    Not necessarily, you may find that discs which are ok now, become coasters later on.
     
  5. nunew33

    nunew33
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    1,735
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Lytham St Annes, where people are put out to grass
    Ratings:
    +2
    by that logic then, when I make backups (I make 2 discs of each home movie-1 to use 1 for archive) i ought to make them 2 archive on 2 different brands
     
  6. Dark Eyes

    Dark Eyes
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    124
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +1
    and possibly even two different types of media, given Rasczak's experience.
     
  7. dakara

    dakara
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well,I am amazed.Despite all the advertising hype about DVD recordings lasting "forever",it appears, on this evidence,that they may not even last as long as VHS tapes.In view of this,and of Bobbles' unfortunate experience,I have cancelled my order for the RDXS,and will stick with my two JVC VHS-S recorders until something more reliable comes along.I don't watch TV all that much anyway,as much of it is rubbish.
    Different Strokes for Different Folks.That is how life is,and how it should be.
    regards,dakara
     
  8. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    these things happen, HDD do fail. Hopefully it is a rare and not a common occurrence.

    My earliest recordings are over 18months old and all work. I checked them this morning.

    The quality of even the cheapest discs has improved as time goes by.

    I do not think you can view -r as a long term archiving medium. Hopefully they will last until the next generation of equipment takes over.
     
  9. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,224
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Warwick
    Ratings:
    +2,268
    I've got everyone worried now haven't I :rolleyes: DVDR is not as durable as VHS/tape based mediums but that is no reason to avoid some of the best home recording devices we have ever seen. All I'm saying is take reasonable precautions:
    - Ensure proper storage conditions
    - Handle your disks with care
    - Make multiple backups on different brands of media
    - If possible makes backups on different types of media
    - Every now and then copy your recordings onto a new DVD-R

    Ironically as well as technology advances things are only going to get worse for archiving :) If you expand a pit on your DVDR disk to the size of a pinhead then your expanded DVDR would be just under 300km in size. Therefore it is not surprising that a small amount of deterioration can cause loss. Now compare this to a single layer BluRay which can hold upto 27GB in the same space and think how much less deterioration is required for data loss. Yet there is no need to panic or avoid the technology: just ensure you take reasonable precautions...
     
  10. QED

    QED
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hasn't this thread opened the proverbial can.... :oops:
     
  11. apreading

    apreading
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    283
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +15
    Anything I cannot afford to lose/replace gets backed up to DVD-RAM as well. This also allows me to make copies for other people too (mainly home movies which I can then easily high speed copy and/or edit on the E85 for other relatives etc). I also keep the Mini-DV tapes as a further backup.

    Films, if I lose it I will get another copy at some point unless it is hard to find in which case I will make a second copy on DVD-RAM or possibly on PC hard disk.
     
  12. nunew33

    nunew33
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    1,735
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Lytham St Annes, where people are put out to grass
    Ratings:
    +2
    DVDs may not last as long as VHS, but the thing that swings it for me is:
    1) I can make fast lossless copies of anything I have put onto dvd
    2) Media is cheaper than VHS even if I make a backup.
    3) repeated viewing does not detriorate picture
    4) When a better medium comes along it will be digital and I will already have gone through the pain of digitising and editing existing footage, I wont have to do it again

    These two things override VHS as an archiving medium for some old 8mm/Hi8 tapes that I have where deterioration has set it. But like you say different strokes for different folks
     
  13. dakara

    dakara
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The Can of Worms Point taken on new technology.I agree that the mechanical linkages in VHS recorders appear to have come out of the Ark,and that DVD's are really neat.Time flies,and we cannot afford to stand still.CD's have proved to be pretty reliable,but as you rightly point out,the increased "compression'causes increased problems.
    My oldest VHS tapes,recorded from TV,are now over thirteen years old,and still play as well now as when I made them.I was going to back them up on DVD,but now am thinking about backing them up on new tapes.
     
  14. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,224
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Warwick
    Ratings:
    +2,268
    No! Back them up to DVD! If you back them upto tape your just going from a First to Second generation analogue copy and you will still have to make the Digital jump some day. If you back them upto DVD then they are then in the Digital Domain and will never degrade in quality further. You just have to ensure you have the proceedures in place to ensure that they are properly cared for in that digital domain.

    If your seriously concerned you could always get a tape drive for your PC and backup you DVDRs to that if you do not want dozens of DVD-Rs around the place!
     
  15. Dark Eyes

    Dark Eyes
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    124
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +1
    Rasczak


    You have just made us realise that our expectations of DVDR were too high, probably through our naivety and the marketing message of the companies who sell these products.

    If anything you given us a wake-up call, hopefully just in time.
     
  16. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,224
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Warwick
    Ratings:
    +2,268
    It's a question of self preservation - I don't want to murdered by thousands of angry owners who purchased a DVD recorder based on my advice and subsequently lost recordings! :eek:

    Nothing to fear from archiving on DVDR - just bear in mind the pointers given above. And don't believe anyone who says DVDRs (of any flavour) will last forever!
     
  17. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I never archive films, I would rather buy the dvd.

    I do archive quite a few TV series, however, I often ask myself why. I am not quite sure how often I will watch them again.
     
  18. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    As I said earlier in over 18 months every disc I have checked still works. I have always gone for the mid-priced discs, datawrite etc. Going by how many discs I have ordered in that time I must have burnt 300 or so discs.

    I really wouldn't be too put off. The price of decent discs (and ram) has dramatically reduced this last year, and hopefully that will continue.

    If you have a recording you will not be able to record again, just back up two copies and if 1 dies copy the other again.

    I think how often you plays the disc will have a big factor in how long they last. I believe whilst playing the discs get heated which will affect the dye to a certain degree.

    We are now in the days of multi channel television, there are not many programmes that are never repeated. Home movies is a different issue.

    Films ! I really do not see the point in spending thousands on a decent system then feeding it second rate film discs.
     
  19. nunew33

    nunew33
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    1,735
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Lytham St Annes, where people are put out to grass
    Ratings:
    +2
    Surely the technology isnt the problem its the media? And its only a matter of time before someone invents a dye that will be heat, scratch and grease resistant.

    Worth noting that the Tosh tray has no sides allowing the placing and retrieving of a disk without getting your fingers underneath. Combined with a proper DVD sleeve and never leavin the disc in the player when not watching it. So no easy way to get scratched, fingermarks and prolonged baking.

    While im thinking about it why cant we get caddied DVD-R/-RW, in fact I wonder what would happen if I put one into a DVD RAM caddy? If it works...could be a market for empty caddies!!!!!

    Thinking about it VHS tapes require fastidious care too. You cant leave them near unshielded speakers/TVs, the more you use Rew/ff the more strain you put on the tape, backing up isnt lossless, every time you watch it the quality deteriorarates, care must be taken to clean heads, etc. so VHS can be just as short lived without care. The only advantage VHS has is ... that if quality deteriorates you still get some form of picture, where as with digital you dont.
     
  20. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,224
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Warwick
    Ratings:
    +2,268
    If they do we might have fun trying to burn it in the first place ;)

    Traditionally DVD-RAM came in a caddy because it was vulnerable to damage (like CDR did once). However when LG invented the coating used on todays disks this became less important. DVD-RW is newer and less prone to damage hence no caddy. Unfortunately consumers do not like the look of caddies and so nobody pushes them - even for DVD-RAM.
     
  21. apreading

    apreading
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    283
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +15
    I like the RAM in caddys for the E85, but when I want to play a disc upstairs I have to take the disk out of the caddy which is fiddly and cannot be good for the disk. I have switched to caddyless as it is pointless because even panasonic dont support caddies in every device. If they really wanted to promote DVD-RAM they should do this...

    I too am finding the drawer on the E85 very annoying because there are no slots to grab the edges of the disk, you have to get your fingers all over it to extract it!
     
  22. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,224
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Warwick
    Ratings:
    +2,268
    Not being funny but can't you just insert a finger through the hole in the middle and lift it out that way? That's how I've always extracted my CDs/DVDs.
     
  23. apreading

    apreading
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    283
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +15
    I think my fingers are perhaps too fat!

    No way can I get anything other than my smallest finger through the hole.
     
  24. QED

    QED
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    There’s a slot at the front.
    Surely you can manoeuvre your thumb to said slot and dextrously insert the smallest of your fat chipolatas in the slot in the centre of the DVD thus being able to lift a DVD out?
     
  25. MartinImber

    MartinImber
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Messages:
    3,851
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Worcester
    Ratings:
    +21
    I have burnt about 30 of the film reel - no coasters
     

Share This Page

Loading...