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The Biggest Revolution in Home Entertainment since colour TV

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by eugdog, Jan 19, 2003.

  1. eugdog

    eugdog
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    NO one has realized it but the projector represents the biggest change in home entertainment since colour TV . We are on the verge of a revolution in how we spend our evenings. When projectors start falling to £400-500 sales will explode!!!

    I think it will do away with all cinemas and will dramatically effect all forms of live entertainment esp theatres but also pubs, clubs and bars!

    I use to go out 3-4 times a week - now I hardly go out ever. I gave a projector as a gift to a very close friend for her family. She said it has changed her life - they have stopped going out completely. She has reguarly get togeather with her friend to see movies and the kids love it.

    I am particularly grateful for it allows me to try out movies that I do not normaly care for like American Beauty, Ghostworld, etc. Before I would only go the the cinema for safe action films.

    I quit my high paying job in accountancy to have more time with my projector - I am training to become a teacher (long holidays!!!!) Who needs the money when you do not go out anymore!!

    Independant Movie makers will be the biggest winners - they can by pass the cumbersome and expensive cinema distribution system.

    In 1940 there were nearly 2 billion admissions to the cinema in the UK. When TV came out it brought it down to 10 million by the 60s. And remember TV was a very inferior product to the cinema. Good projector can rival cinema easily.

    Curously I was reading Mike Medavoys book on the movie industry (he produced Terminator, Platoon, Silence of the Lambs). In the epilogue He talks about influence of the internet and DVD on the movies - but he ignores projectors. Amazing.
     
  2. nanker

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    2 Billion !! ??

    I make that 40 cinema admissions per year for every man woman and child. And a lot of those men would have been away fighting for their country. Can that figure really be right?
     
  3. Gary Lightfoot

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    I wouldn't be surprised - don't forget that apart from listening to Radio, there was no way to actualy see the news like we do today.

    Pathe newsreels were a big attraction during the war I believe.

    It wouild be interesting to see some other info to confirm the figure though.

    Gary.
     
  4. eugdog

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    I saw this in the Daily Telegraph - but it is from memory but it was definitely a year in the 40s - maybe not the war years

    40 x per person per year - that is possible because people typically went to the cinema 3 times a week - what other form of entertainment could compare to the cinema (theatre would be too expensive for frequent visits)
     
  5. Smurfin

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    Sorry but thats rubbish, have you thought of the idea that people actually enjoy going out?

    "dramatically effect all forms of live entertainment"? Have you been out in the last 10 years? It's all out there now!
     
  6. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    What's your name? eurdog? I think you want to change it to MadDog mate because, with respect, I think you are barking! :eek:

    You've quit an accountancy job to become a teacher just to spend more time with your projector? Either this is a poor wind-up or you've got your priorities totally screwed up. You should choose to become a teacher because you want to contribute to the education of future generations, not because it's a job with long holidays. Talk like this devalues the profession and is an insult to those whom you will eventually teach.

    "They" said sales would explode when prices hit £2K, and again at £1500. Price has an impact, but there are far more factors involved in the purchasing decision than price alone. As an accountant you should be aware of market forces, surely you've assembled business plans before now. I'm beginning to doubt your credentials.

    And you really believe people just go to pubs and bars to watch TV? Have you ever been to a pub, or are you too young?

    This is about the first intelligent thing you've said.

    Home Cinema is about enjoying the art of the film maker.

    If a movie is no good it won't get distribution in the cinema or on DVD - so nothing much would change.


    Hmm... my grammar and spelling is far from perfect, but I'm surprised that a man of education (assuming you have passed you accountancy exams) has such trouble. Then again, it is said that standards are falling, and perhaps trainee teachers don't need to be able to write correctly ;)

    Both DVD and the internet are distribution formats - they have a far greater impact in marketing terms that the final display medium. Yet another fact that a competent accountant should be aware of.


    These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of my employer.

    Regards
     
  7. rogeralpine

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    I share some of your views and enthusiam, but I feel that in many instances families of today see their homes as homes, not rivals for the local UCI or places where serious entertainment can be found.

    Don't get me wrong, the projector IMHO has the potential to radically change home entertainment - only if people would embrace it. I am fortunate in that I have a sympathetic wife who has accomodated the change to "our" living space. It may have helped that I went from a bulky 56" RPTV to a small, inconspicuous (compared to the RPTV) projector.

    There are many visitors to our humble abode though that shun the thought of speakers, wires and screens, electing for a more pleasing presence of a "nice" 28" widescreen box. I am sorry to say that in all cases such oposition has come from the female visitor who has expressed a dislike of the AV equpiment. If it were down to the male I would expect that the majority of homes would be occupied by nacho chomping, sprite guzzling, families who all had goggle square eyes the size of a football goals! That day though I believe is quite a long way off.

    I do believe though that if prices drop and a system can be installed into most homes with about the same level of impact as a 28" widescreen, then there is a chance that a true revolution could take place.
     
  8. eugdog

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    Christ Frost

    I do understand your justification for such a sour and insulting posting. Firstly as a succesful and qualified accountant (ACCA) I am probably am more succesful then you are (and certainly more qualified). The teaching profession should and does welcome highly qualified applicants such as my self. Also if I can teach successfully it does not matter what my motivation is. Why do people come accountants or account managers? Not for altruistic reasons!

    It is obviously clear that you know little about the independant film market - I can think of many excellent films that have sunk because they could not get proper cinema distrubution ie Welcome to the Dollhouse, Heathers (cinema gross $1 million in the US but achieved cult status thanks to video), Best Laid Plans etc. A great film like Ghost World only did $6 million (even though it was Oscar nominated for its screen play) because it was swamped by the summer hits which took up all the screens in US. How can indies compete with summer blockbuster which can open up on 3000 screens. Cinemas are a physical barrier to low budget films because so much marketing is needed to get people into the cinema - it therefore favours high concept, star driven, mass market films. The occasional indie triumps are the exception not the rule. I hope that less money will be needed to get people to buy or rent an indie film. (also prints of films cost $3000 per film and only last about 400 runs - that is another physical barrier to low budget films)

    Regarding the impact of home projectors - I can only go from my experience, the experience of my friend who a bought a projector as a present. It changed our lives. We also have the experience of DVD players. They are the fastest selling electronic media in history. Of course it need prices to fall to £200 for sales to take off. But a projector is a far greater improvement in the cinematic experience then DVD!

    We also have the example of the cinema and the advent of TV to go by.

    No one can say for sure just what the impact of the home projector will have on entertainment and going out in general. Obviously people will still go out - after all we still have bars even though booze can be bought at the off license. I believe, though, that home projectors are such an quantum leap in the entertainment experience that it will change our lives in ways we cannot even imagine.

    BTW I was in the night club business and did very well (thats why I can afford to go into teaching) - so I think I know what I am talking about. Need I ask whether you have had your own company? Regarding my spelling mistakes - I am sorry but I am use to having my PA check my work.
     
  9. Smurfin

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    Do you realise how childish you sound?

    You're just making yourself look like a fool.

    Regards
    Matt

    PS And btw, I don't have a PA either, I can spell;)
     
  10. Ekko Star

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    There's nothing wrong with being over enthusiastic about something you believe in. After all, most of us here on these forums are kind of AV enthusiasts of some sort or other.

    There are though some BIG assumptions made in the original post. I'm not sure they all ring true though !

    Personally I think "Life Changing" is not what I would best describe a Home Projector. Though I suppose that might depend to some extent on the kind of life somone lives originally ? However great a PJ set up is, it is and will remain quite a niche market due to the practicality of having such a set up in an average Joe Bloggs home. In order to revolutionise anything you have to get Joe Public and the masses to buy into it in a big way. Darkened living rooms, screens, room layouts, kids, WAF, dedicated room etc etc etc......Hmmmmmm somehow I don't think so.

    Home Cinema has come on leaps and bounds in the last 10 years and continues to do so at an ever increasing rate. I for one welcome the advent of new technology and how that adds to the entertainment value at home. However, bottom line for me is, if my mates call to go out for a drink, I'm looking for the off switch. If not, being called a sad ******* or being told to "get a life" by them kind of has some truth about it !:)
     
  11. theritz

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    Hi eugdog,

    Read your post earlier today, and resisted the urge to reply, on the basis that I thought that your post was a wind-up - and a poor wind up at that.

    However, the following cannot go without reply:

    Originally posted by eugdog
    Christ Frost
    Firstly as a succesful and qualified accountant (ACCA) I am probably am more succesful then you are (and certainly more qualified).

    BTW I was in the night club business and did very well (thats why I can afford to go into teaching) - so I think I know what I am talking about. Need I ask whether you have had your own company? Regarding my spelling mistakes - I am sorry but I am use to having my PA check my work.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    In the (unlikely) event that your post is intended to be a serious commentary on the hobby (remember that word...) shared by most members here, you must be beyond help if you considered that "giving up accountancy to take up teaching so you could have longer holidays to spend time with your projector" (not a direct quote) would be a move which would be greeted with approval. I am glad that there is no chance whatsoever that you might end up teaching my kids, and bemoan that fact that there's a chance you would end up teaching anyone else's kids.

    Your reply to Chris Frost betrays a naivete and meanness of spirit that I have rarely encountered here. Given that you're very new to the Forum, you might consider it useful to check on the quality of posting from existing members before you try insulting them. Banter between members who form an acquaintance with each other is often observed here and great fun too, with some extremely barbed comments and well developed senses of humour - you're reply to Chris was crude and in the event that you ever need assistance or advice (technical, or otherwise) your posting in this thread is unlikely to stand you in good stead.

    I was taught by teachers who wanted to teach, and consequently am able to spell (and type) - a PA is a wonderful resource to have, mine does a powerhouse organinsing my office and working life, but is no substitute for being literate, or having the ability to construct a reasoned argument without insulting others.

    Sean G.

    The Small Print:
    I will ask those who know me here to take careful note that I have not used the words "barking", "nuts", "daft", "git", "d!$khead" or any other words which might be construed as conveying an insult or otherwise constituting a breach of the rules of the forum. While I lament the quality of the posting of the thread starter here, I aspire at all times to a quality of posting high in technical and spiritual content, unless it's directed at Kramer, of course, in which case any auld ****e will do.
     
  12. Chris Frost

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    Hey 'dog
    You're the one that made the provocative post, so don't you think you can expect some flack in return.

    IMO it isn't the projector that represents the biggest change in home entertainment since colour TV. It is DVD. A point you make in your second post...

    "...DVD players. They are the fastest selling electronic media in history."

    DVD offers a high quality medium for film distribution which has elements of software piracy control for the film producers, provides a method of segmenting the world into controllable regional markets to aid timed roll-out by film distribution companies, allows the studios to create "added value" products by the introduction of: special editions - directors cuts - audio commentaries - interviews and featurettes etc, is easier to mass produce than tape and has a greater packed density to reduce shipping costs per piece, gives retailers a convenient and compact format to maximise the return on retail shelf space, and finally it provides a better picture and sound quality to the consumer from a product that can be used with almost any TV in the house. In a word - Convenience.

    Accessibility to hardware through reduced prices has been a major factor in the success of DVD. However, there has also been support from the Studios with bundled deals on films.
    But IMO an equally important factor is that the player fits under the telly and it is easy to work.

    As for the death of cinema, well you had better tell Stelios
    Haji-Ioannou, ex-chairman of Easyjet and a far more succesful businessman than you or I. He is planning to invest millions of pounds into cinema. Do you really believe he would make this move if home cinema projectors were a significant threat?

    Ekko Star summed it up very well...
    "(projectors) will remain quite a niche market due to the practicality of having such a set up in an average Joe Bloggs home."

    Our British room layout doesn't support projection easily. We watch TV in the corner of the lounge. This even makes it tricky for the introduction of surround sound let alone projection, and it is an issue I face daily in my professional life.

    I don't know what the answer is for the independant film maker, but I'd be amazed if the merry band of UK projector owners was to be its knight in shining armour.

    Even the backing of a major studio and superb film craft can't guarantee a box office success. Think of The Shawshank Redemption as an example. It got a nationwide cinema release yet bombed spectacularly because the general public didn't want to go see a prison drama. Now it is rated as a classic, up there with the likes of It's a Wonderful Life and Citizen Cane.

    If the independant film market struggles in the cinema then it will also struggle at the rental store. At the film festivals an independant is competiting agaist this years crop of new productions. On the shelves of your local rental store or retailer this production is swamped by the latest releases, last years blockbusters and all the other straight-to-video releases too.

    However a film is produced, it needs good distribution just to be in the race to be noticed. But the distribution companies pick those films where they think they'll get a good return on their investment. You know, the "safe action films" you used to go and watch at the cinema.

    Hmm... I think I read somewhere that average cinema occupancy runs at 40%, but lets halve that to be on the safe side.

    Seating capacity in one screen of the typical multiplex - 200~250 seats x 400 showings = roughly 16000 bums on seats.

    A $3000 (dollars) print divided by 16000 people = 18.75 cents per person, or at $1.50:£ gives 12.5 pence per person.

    That seems like good value to me!

    We already have a nationally available vehicle for independant film makers to get their productions aired. Its called "Film Four". Do you subscribe?

    There is also the BBC although in recent years their commissioning of new productions has dropped significantly. The hayday of course was the merchant ivory productions of the mid 80's. Perhaps I know more about independant film product than you give me credit for?

    Goodnight.
     
  13. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    How can someone in a cable free area who doesn't like Sky supposed to get it, when C4 broadcast 1 channel on half a multiplex (enough room left for E4 & F4)
     
  14. eugdog

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    My original posting made no insults to anyone which cannot be said about the subsequants posting. I simply retaliated!

    Anyhow regarding teaching - many of my colleagues at my training college said that they were attracted to the profession because of long holidays. It is not unusual for people to quit the rat race and seek less demanding jobs (teaching is not as demanding as working in finance in the city). Also many of them have to go into teaching because they got degrees in less marketable skills like history, pyschology etc. That is why there is a shortage in Maths and Science teachers. Graduates here can find work outside of teaching.

    As long as projectors cost £1500-2000 then it will be a niche market. Ordinary people cannot afford that kind of money. But there will be a price which everyone can afford to pay. The question is how much? I would say £400, others might think higher or lower. What will accelerate growth is when one person on the block has a projector and starts showin to his/her friends. But I accept that currently projector prices are too high.

    I think that widespread projector use will effect other forms of entertainment such as pub and clubs and esp cinemas. I was thinking more like a 10-20% fall! We go out partly for the excitement of going out but also because there is nothing to do at home. It is the latter reason that will be most affected by having a projector.

    Cinemas are a major barrier to bold and innovative cinema because of high costs of bringing films to the market as stated in my previous posting. But also because going to the cinema is such an major investment in time and money the punters are more likely to choose safer and easier to like films. What I am hoping is that people will be more willing to take risks when they can watch films in the comfort of their home. This is my experience (in fact according to Mike Medavoy book it is typical for people to try more marginal films at home - but TV is a poor substitute for cinema). Of course films via the internet would be even better but we need over come the grid lock on the internet for this to be effective!
     
  15. John_N

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    Hello.

    I'm curious about the accountancy link...

    Whereabouts did you used to work in the City and for which firm? I have worked with a number of investment banks and know the area a little.... ;) What area of accountancy did you work in (tax or audit for example?) I think the spelling mistakes and style of grammar start to ring alarm bells to be honest..

    Maybe we should calm down a bit guys....
    :)
    John
     
  16. eugdog

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    I worked for an accountancy firm in the city in the early 90s and also in Toronto, Canada - I have been in private industry for a long time now.

    I think my comments of moving to teaching are slightly misleading. I did some teaching some years ago part time and I really liked it. But it did not pay enough for me. But now thanks to my beloved projector (NEC HT1000) I do not need to have so much money to be happy - I can do the job I want. I am also teaching accountancy in the post compulsory sector.

    Regarding spelling mistakes - my postings are little more then web chat - I am therefore not concerned about spelling mistakes. Of course I would be much more choosey if I was submitting an official report.

    Curiously I have done many postings on ballet and opera web sites and no one has commented on my spelling!
     
  17. John_N

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    Thanks to your beloved NEC HT1000 you can do the job you want????

    Fascinating... I wish my projector would place me in the same position! :)

    You didn't mention which part of the City you are familiar with? Blackfriars area? Leadenhall market? Liverpool St? I'm not trying to be difficult but if you were to demonstate your familarity with the City then maybe some other people in the forum might believe the bit about accountancy and that might enable you to regain some of your credibility which I believe has been damaged, fairly or unfairly, by this rather series of postings.

    So come on.. At least let's talk about the geography of the particular area of the City where you worked.. I too have worked in the City in the nineties...

    Kind Regards
    J
     
  18. John_N

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    PS. Sorry. I missed the word 'amusing' out of my last post.

    We shall leave it as an excercise to the reader to determine the insertion point. :p :D
     
  19. Crocodile JD

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    I don't know but when my mate said that he'd sh*gged his projector, it didn't look very broken to me!:D
     
  20. John_N

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    Like I said... Let the reader determine the insertion point...
    :D
     
  21. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    LOL. :D :D :D

    The comedy :clown: in this thread just gets better and better.

    Regards
     
  22. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    You are quite right, but whether you like Sky or not Film Four is available provided you subscribe and can receive a Satellite signal. The oether option would be to add the yearly subscription - £72 - to the TV Licence so it was available to all, but I don't believe that would be a popular solution either.

    Perhaps the BBC FreeView service will develop in the future to include an option to watch some subscription channels - though at that point it may have to change its name to "Not So Freeview";)

    FreeView isn't exactly free right now though, is it. After buying the box you still have to pay the TV Licence fee.

    Regards
     
  23. ReTrO

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    My dad works in The City, in Broadgate for BP, nicest place in London I'd like to work. And you get an ice skating rink in the winter.:D
     
  24. theritz

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    Now that this post has reached a useful topic....

    I like London too.... Tottenham Court Road & Shaftesbury Avenue..... Hi Fi/Electronics shops and Guitar shops...... Mmmmmmmm.... Heaven !!!


    Sean G.
     
  25. ReTrO

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    Covent Garden in my curent favourite area in London. Lots of bars and stuff. There's a Canadian bar/pub called The Maple Leaf, very nice place, also a nice Polish bar that sells loadsa vodka.:D

    It's called Na Zdrowie, taek a look here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A418691
     
  26. eugdog

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    I worked for a firm in Wood street EC4 for a few years - I do not want to devolve personal details but surely the fact that I can afford a £3000 projector suggest that I am not on the breadline.

    I was introduced to projectors by a supplier of AV equipment to our night club. Apparently DJ use them to beam special effects. The first one I bought - the Infocus 720 - is terrible by todays standards but I thought it was the last word in home entertainment. I then bought a Davis Powerbeam and a prog scan device. When I got my NEC HT1000 I gave my Davis to my ex-fiancee and her young family in Canada.

    Someone comented that projectors will not take off because they are too inconvienant for a typical British home (not a Canadian home I should point out). I am not so sure. The screen was a bit of pain to set up but for my London flat I had simple roller blind screen attached to my ceiling. My projector is only 12 feet away. It is a synch to set it up and to put it away when not in use. When I go on holiday to the states I always bring my projector and a portable screen with me. I love the versatility of the projector. I also think that the incredible benefits of a projector will make people willing to re-arrange their living room accordingly

    As for DVDs I was surprised at how succesful they have been although I did anticipate that they would be fairly successful. When I got my first DVD player (a year before my projector) I never got movies - I preferred to get TV, documentaries and opera. I really liked the no rewind/ff aspect. But I found watching DVD movies on TV deeply unsatisfying. I got rid off my Sky Movie subscription ages ago.
     
  27. Kramer

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    lol.

    Surely a few Reg 2 discs to compare with their equalivent Reg 1 variants wouldn't break the bank, given your affluent situation. ;)

    Time for a "thread closed" icon me thinks!

    BTW, Tivo is rubbish!



    Giddy up!
     
  28. MAW

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    Retro, are you a maple leaf regular? Not my work local any more, but on the way to Waterloo for me. Don't hang about much in town though, have to get back home to my darling projector.:D
     
  29. ReTrO

    ReTrO
    Active Member

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    I was when I was home. Go there everytime I'm in London, great fun. I was working in custom install last year and I was in London a lot doing stuff, sometimes finshed my day in london with some mates.

    Remmember:

    'Canadian girls kick ass!'

    :D
     
  30. John_N

    John_N
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    I'm so pleased I'm not working in the City anymore mind you. Living in Newbury of course I was travelling into Paddington and before I resigned this year it was taking me a reasonably consistent 2 hours to get in and home. I don't envy any of you that.

    Back onto the subject:

    Why would region 1 DVD be better quality than region 2?

    As Father Jack would say: '****biscuits' (Father Ted)

    Region 2 DVD are typically coded for PAL and this means that they have 576 active lines in the image. If you ever play a region 1 DVD on a PAL system you will see the black bars are bigger. This is because they are coded for NTSC and therefore only have 480 active lines. Therefore the resolution of an NTSC (region 1) DVD is LOWER than a PAL one and therefore the quality is not as good.

    Rgds
    J
     

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