The Big Fight - any takers?

[Smurfin]

Hi all

Recently (and historically) there have been a number of threads relating to "which subwoofer?"....notably higher end subs.

It's an argument which rages on, and the point is...I doubt if ANY of us have heard these beasts side by side.

The Paradigm Servo 15s and the Velodynes are pretty much impossible to demo together in any hi-fi shop, so how about a subwoofer fight-out extravaganza?

From a personal point of view - and the fact that I'm sure MANY people on this forum would be interested - I'd love to hear the following big guns go for it:

Paradigm servo 15
Velodyne CHT-15
Velodyne HGS 15
Velodyne HGS 18
SVS Ultras.
REL Stentor

So, any takers?

I would love to host it, but unfortunately I have a certain responsibility to my neighbours sanity, but I would only be too willing to haul my Servo 15 somewhere.

The big Q is....are others prepared to hoist their mammoth boxes into their cars and travel for the ultimate shootout?

Uncle Eric, the batcave sounds like a great idea

And if anyone would be obliging enough, a REL Quake would be good for a laugh, err I mean aperitif [apologies to all Quake owners ]

So, who's up for it? (ideally a saturday!)

Cheers
Matt

 

[Apocalypse]

I think Uncle Eric has used most of the subs on that list except perhaps the SVS and REL, I'm almost certain he's used a Servo 15 and CHT 15 but I could be wrong.

P.S - Brave thread

 

[Smurfin]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
P.S - Brave thread [/B]

LOL

The phrase which springs to mind is: "put up or shut up".

I'm sure it would also be a good laugh....

REL Quake vs HGS 18

 

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Smurfin
LOL


I'm sure it would also be a good laugh....

REL Quake vs HGS 18

Considering how many Quake owners there must be on this forum I've upgraded your "brave" status and changed it to "suicidal"

One flame retardent suit is on it's way to you Smurfin

 

[Phil Hinton]

I am totally with Smurfin on this one, I am sure there is someone out there That could arrange a mini event style blind listening contest using all the mentioned subs with the same audio chain and room,and db settings.

Infact I would travel to where ever such an event took place, just out of sheer interest, and would even bring my CHT15. I am sure we could get servo15 rel etc owners to bring there gear etc.

Or am I just hoping to much for an interesting day out

 

[Apocalypse]

If anyone ever wants to see/compare an HGS 18 in action and don't mind travelling to Sheffield just give me a PM and we'll sort something out. My room is only 3m x 3m so it's no high street demo room but you'll certainly get a taste of what the HGS 18 can do now that I've finally found it's best location in the room, words can't really do it justice. You're welcome to bring your own DVDs/CDs for testing if you wish.

Regards
Phil

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Paradigm servo 15
Velodyne CHT-15
Velodyne HGS 15
Velodyne HGS 18
SVS Ultras.
REL Stentor<<<

Forget about the cht15,not in the same league as the rest.

The HGS18 and the SVS Ultras have already gone head to head in one comparison review (hometheaterhifi.com).

TV

 

[Smurfin]

Tom

You're missing the point! Many of here rate the CHT 15 on a par with the Servo 15..........so that one is very much relevant

 

[Mark Ward]

Forget about the cht15,not in the same league as the rest.

I'd also like to see the CHT15 included. I currently have no opinion on it as I've never heard it or the Servo15

CHT isn't in the same PRICE league either so on a "bang-for-bucks" judgement could do quite well.

I'd also like to see some bigger Rel's in there too. I'm currently not a big fan of them but am prepared to be proved wrong.

So long as it was within the distance I could travel both ways and enjoy the event in tha same day I'd be up for it.

I'd consider hosting, I have the room but with no carpet or curtains yet and the floor still too springy my room is so "live" that I'd worry about the fillings in peoples teeth when the HGS18 is demoed.

I'd REALLY like to see this happen.

Mark.

 

[NicolasB]

If you want to be really thorough you should probably include some of the £2K-£3K M&K subs in there as well....

 

[Steve Thornes]

Interesting idea. This reminds me of my fireworks party the other night. Every year, we always leave the biggest and best till last. In much the same way, the HGS18 should be left for the grand finale.

 

[Ian J]

There is one unbiased member who has probably heard them all but Editor HCC is never around when you need him

 

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Steve Thornes
Interesting idea. This reminds me of my fireworks party the other night. Every year, we always leave the biggest and best till last. In much the same way, the HGS18 should be left for the grand finale.

It should be a blind test so you don't know in which order they are coming. If the HGS18 is all that (I'm sure it is) then people will be able to spot it straight away.

 

[Steve Thornes]

So its a case of, bring your blindfolds along.

 

[bob007]

Your all welcome round here if your stuck for somewhere to go for the shootout. 5mins from J40 M1.

 

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Jeff
It should be a blind test so you don't know in which order they are coming. If the HGS18 is all that (I'm sure it is) then people will be able to spot it straight away.

Depends if the said blindfolded person knows what to listen for, a distorted sub can sometimes sound "powerfull" whereas clean bass can sometimes be mistaken for a "thin" sound. It's only in the last 6 days that I've finally heard what clean bass sounds like and at first I thought I'd positioned the sub incorrectly as previous explosions etc sounded thin, however when something like a large spaceship does a fly-by your fears are put to rest as your jeans/trousers start flapping and your guts get tingly. Music now a tightness that I thought wasn't possible with a subwoofer, from classical music to hip hop to rave the HGS18 blends in perfectly with the speakers.

The question you all have to ask yourselves is this : Are you certain you are hearing clean bass?

I've had the HGS 18 for months and thought I was, what a wake up call

Regards
Phil

 

[Inukjuak]

Originally posted by Steve Thornes
So its a case of, bring your blindfolds along.

If your going to play some games as well , how about some wife swapping.

 

[common]

You can have mine for a HGS 18 !

 

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Depends if the said blindfolded person knows what to listen for, a distorted sub can sometimes sound "powerfull" whereas clean bass can sometimes be mistaken for a "thin" sound.

I know what you are saying, but it would be interesting to know;

1) Can Golden ears tell the difference?

2) What sounds best to the untrained ear?

So a mixture of blind testers would be good, but we would want to know who chose what to put this into perspective.

I wonder if Eric would agree to be put through this?

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>CHT isn't in the same PRICE league either so on a "bang-for-bucks" judgement could do quite well.<<

Oh definitely. But then you'll have to have to distinct "brackets". If you are going to invite 3 different VELs in at least 2 different price ranges...it seems a litlte unfair to only have the single paradigm. Then again...in casual get togethers like this you can't always be picky



>>>I'd consider hosting, I have the room but with no carpet or curtains yet and the floor still too springy my room is so "live" that I'd worry about the fillings in peoples teeth when the HGS18 is demoed. I'd REALLY like to see this happen.<<<



If anyone had a large yard---you could probably measure all of the subwoofers on a FR vs. THD vs. Freq scale in a few hours. All you would need is a notebook PC and you could DL the RTA prgram from www.soundtechnology.com . That with a mic(even a RS meter will do in a pinch) and you are all set for almost no cost(no cost if you have the mic already).

If you do this test based solely on subjective preferences---I would be SURE each unit was in the exact same location in the room and calibrated to the exact same level. Even then, natural human bias will be sure to cause a ruckus during the test and with any conclusions. That is why it would be so much better to be able to offer some documented THD/FR/SPL data in addition to the subjective portion of the tests.

TV

 

[Jase]

I´d definitely love to see the results of a subwoofer shootout between all the big guns. Also dual subs of one brand vs a single sub of another etc etc.

Surely this could be arranged between all the members?

 

[lmccauley]

Originally posted by common
You can have mine for a HGS 18 !

You can have mine for a REL Quake

I would be interested in being "educated" - listening to a sub that measures well, then one that measures less well so that I would be better able to make objective assessment of subs.

Cheers,
Liam

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I have heard all bar the SVS subs and I am working on that one! I have done several non scientific shootouts. This is how I bought my subs and how I have kept informed since.

The cheaper Velodyne and Rel are outclassed here (yes I do own one). I am with Tom on this

much of what has been written is about the superiority of dual 15 Paradigm (substiture Velodyne if you like) over the bigger units like HGS 18s. The SVSs are bigger again. This means multiple 15 inch units, the number increases....

The biggest problems here are

logistics (I struggle with moving a Stentor let alone dual Paradigms)
Double blind is essential
Are you qualified to listen and ACCURATELY comment on the difference in a double blind?
Room acoustics / set up / measurement

without double blind testing it will just denegrate into the usual slanging matches of two / three camps. Paradigm vs Velodyne vs SVS leading the DIYers.

It is a lovely idea but is it realistic?

I am happy I know what the best commercial set up are and I am also confident what is capable of the best performance. All it takes is some leg work but lugging these beasts around the country and all in one location, I am not sure it is realistic.

I would throw my barn in for a suitable location in 6 months time but I suspect deepest Cumbria isn't local to ANYONE. I can also beg / borrow some more biggies.

 

[Ian J]

When we've all finished can we do the same test for tweeters because I am sure that my tweeter can tweet more tweetily than any one else's tweeter.

 

Old Eddie Stobarts haulage firm would earn a few notes transporting these beasts up & down the M ways.
Incidentally, i found another little snippet of a film that is technically anti-social.

Oceans 11...The bit where Lennox Lewis presses the plunger to level the big hotel to dust!!!!!>.

Now tell me...is that quite real or what?

I'll always be grateful to the bassheads of these forums for introducing me to world of the 'big servo' subs.
I did like my M&K VX-100 & REL Q400e....
There and again, i like egg & chips!

Adzman