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The Big Fight - any takers?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Smurfin, Nov 11, 2002.

  1. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Hi all

    Recently (and historically) there have been a number of threads relating to "which subwoofer?"....notably higher end subs.

    It's an argument which rages on, and the point is...I doubt if ANY of us have heard these beasts side by side.

    The Paradigm Servo 15s and the Velodynes are pretty much impossible to demo together in any hi-fi shop, so how about a subwoofer fight-out extravaganza?

    From a personal point of view - and the fact that I'm sure MANY people on this forum would be interested - I'd love to hear the following big guns go for it:

    Paradigm servo 15
    Velodyne CHT-15
    Velodyne HGS 15
    Velodyne HGS 18
    SVS Ultras.
    REL Stentor

    So, any takers?

    I would love to host it, but unfortunately I have a certain responsibility to my neighbours sanity, but I would only be too willing to haul my Servo 15 somewhere.

    The big Q is....are others prepared to hoist their mammoth boxes into their cars and travel for the ultimate shootout?

    Uncle Eric, the batcave sounds like a great idea;)

    And if anyone would be obliging enough, a REL Quake would be good for a laugh, err I mean aperitif;) [apologies to all Quake owners:D ]

    So, who's up for it? (ideally a saturday!)

    Cheers
    Matt
     
  2. Apocalypse

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    I think Uncle Eric has used most of the subs on that list except perhaps the SVS and REL, I'm almost certain he's used a Servo 15 and CHT 15 but I could be wrong.

    P.S - Brave thread :eek: ;)
     
  3. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    LOL:D

    The phrase which springs to mind is: "put up or shut up".;)

    I'm sure it would also be a good laugh....:D

    REL Quake vs HGS 18:eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  4. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse
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    Considering how many Quake owners there must be on this forum I've upgraded your "brave" status and changed it to "suicidal" :D

    One flame retardent suit is on it's way to you Smurfin :devil:
     
  5. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    I am totally with Smurfin on this one, I am sure there is someone out there;) That could arrange a mini event style blind listening contest using all the mentioned subs with the same audio chain and room,and db settings.

    Infact I would travel to where ever such an event took place, just out of sheer interest, and would even bring my CHT15. I am sure we could get servo15 rel etc owners to bring there gear etc.

    Or am I just hoping to much for an interesting day out:rolleyes:
     
  6. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse
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    If anyone ever wants to see/compare an HGS 18 in action and don't mind travelling to Sheffield just give me a PM and we'll sort something out. My room is only 3m x 3m so it's no high street demo room but you'll certainly get a taste of what the HGS 18 can do now that I've finally found it's best location in the room, words can't really do it justice. You're welcome to bring your own DVDs/CDs for testing if you wish.

    Regards
    Phil
     
  7. Tom Vodhanel

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    >>>Paradigm servo 15
    Velodyne CHT-15
    Velodyne HGS 15
    Velodyne HGS 18
    SVS Ultras.
    REL Stentor<<<

    Forget about the cht15,not in the same league as the rest.

    The HGS18 and the SVS Ultras have already gone head to head in one comparison review (hometheaterhifi.com).

    TV
     
  8. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Tom

    You're missing the point! Many of here rate the CHT 15 on a par with the Servo 15..........so that one is very much relevant:D
     
  9. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    I'd also like to see the CHT15 included. I currently have no opinion on it as I've never heard it or the Servo15

    CHT isn't in the same PRICE league either so on a "bang-for-bucks" judgement could do quite well.

    I'd also like to see some bigger Rel's in there too. I'm currently not a big fan of them but am prepared to be proved wrong.

    So long as it was within the distance I could travel both ways and enjoy the event in tha same day I'd be up for it.

    I'd consider hosting, I have the room but with no carpet or curtains yet and the floor still too springy my room is so "live" that I'd worry about the fillings in peoples teeth when the HGS18 is demoed.

    I'd REALLY like to see this happen.

    Mark.
     
  10. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    If you want to be really thorough you should probably include some of the £2K-£3K M&K subs in there as well....
     
  11. Steve Thornes

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    Interesting idea. This reminds me of my fireworks party the other night. Every year, we always leave the biggest and best till last. In much the same way, the HGS18 should be left for the grand finale.
     
  12. Ian J

    Ian J
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    There is one unbiased member who has probably heard them all but Editor HCC is never around when you need him :)
     
  13. Jeff

    Jeff
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    It should be a blind test so you don't know in which order they are coming. If the HGS18 is all that (I'm sure it is) then people will be able to spot it straight away.
     
  14. Steve Thornes

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    So its a case of, bring your blindfolds along.
     
  15. bob007

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    Your all welcome round here if your stuck for somewhere to go for the shootout. 5mins from J40 M1.
     
  16. Apocalypse

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    Depends if the said blindfolded person knows what to listen for, a distorted sub can sometimes sound "powerfull" whereas clean bass can sometimes be mistaken for a "thin" sound. It's only in the last 6 days that I've finally heard what clean bass sounds like and at first I thought I'd positioned the sub incorrectly as previous explosions etc sounded thin, however when something like a large spaceship does a fly-by your fears are put to rest as your jeans/trousers start flapping and your guts get tingly. Music now a tightness that I thought wasn't possible with a subwoofer, from classical music to hip hop to rave the HGS18 blends in perfectly with the speakers.

    The question you all have to ask yourselves is this : Are you certain you are hearing clean bass?

    I've had the HGS 18 for months and thought I was, what a wake up call :eek: :blush:

    Regards
    Phil
     
  17. Inukjuak

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    If your going to play some games as well , how about some wife swapping. :D
     
  18. common

    common
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    You can have mine for a HGS 18 !
     
  19. Jeff

    Jeff
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    I know what you are saying, but it would be interesting to know;

    1) Can Golden ears tell the difference?

    2) What sounds best to the untrained ear?

    So a mixture of blind testers would be good, but we would want to know who chose what to put this into perspective.

    I wonder if Eric would agree to be put through this?
     
  20. Tom Vodhanel

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    >>>CHT isn't in the same PRICE league either so on a "bang-for-bucks" judgement could do quite well.<<

    Oh definitely. But then you'll have to have to distinct "brackets". If you are going to invite 3 different VELs in at least 2 different price ranges...it seems a litlte unfair to only have the single paradigm. Then again...in casual get togethers like this you can't always be picky :)



    >>>I'd consider hosting, I have the room but with no carpet or curtains yet and the floor still too springy my room is so "live" that I'd worry about the fillings in peoples teeth when the HGS18 is demoed. I'd REALLY like to see this happen.<<<



    If anyone had a large yard---you could probably measure all of the subwoofers on a FR vs. THD vs. Freq scale in a few hours. All you would need is a notebook PC and you could DL the RTA prgram from www.soundtechnology.com . That with a mic(even a RS meter will do in a pinch) and you are all set for almost no cost(no cost if you have the mic already).

    If you do this test based solely on subjective preferences---I would be SURE each unit was in the exact same location in the room and calibrated to the exact same level. Even then, natural human bias will be sure to cause a ruckus during the test and with any conclusions. That is why it would be so much better to be able to offer some documented THD/FR/SPL data in addition to the subjective portion of the tests.

    TV
     
  21. Jase

    Jase
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    I´d definitely love to see the results of a subwoofer shootout between all the big guns. Also dual subs of one brand vs a single sub of another etc etc.

    Surely this could be arranged between all the members?:)
     
  22. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    You can have mine for a REL Quake :D

    I would be interested in being "educated" - listening to a sub that measures well, then one that measures less well so that I would be better able to make objective assessment of subs.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  23. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I have heard all bar the SVS subs and I am working on that one! I have done several non scientific shootouts. This is how I bought my subs and how I have kept informed since.

    The cheaper Velodyne and Rel are outclassed here (yes I do own one). I am with Tom on this

    much of what has been written is about the superiority of dual 15 Paradigm (substiture Velodyne if you like) over the bigger units like HGS 18s. The SVSs are bigger again. This means multiple 15 inch units, the number increases....

    The biggest problems here are

    logistics (I struggle with moving a Stentor let alone dual Paradigms)
    Double blind is essential
    Are you qualified to listen and ACCURATELY comment on the difference in a double blind?
    Room acoustics / set up / measurement

    without double blind testing it will just denegrate into the usual slanging matches of two / three camps. Paradigm vs Velodyne vs SVS leading the DIYers.

    It is a lovely idea but is it realistic?

    I am happy I know what the best commercial set up are and I am also confident what is capable of the best performance. All it takes is some leg work but lugging these beasts around the country and all in one location, I am not sure it is realistic.

    I would throw my barn in for a suitable location in 6 months time but I suspect deepest Cumbria isn't local to ANYONE. I can also beg / borrow some more biggies. ;)
     
  24. Ian J

    Ian J
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    When we've all finished can we do the same test for tweeters because I am sure that my tweeter can tweet more tweetily than any one else's tweeter.
     
  25. Guest

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    Old Eddie Stobarts haulage firm would earn a few notes transporting these beasts up & down the M ways.
    Incidentally, i found another little snippet of a film that is technically anti-social.

    Oceans 11...The bit where Lennox Lewis presses the plunger to level the big hotel to dust!!!!!>.

    Now tell me...is that quite real or what?

    I'll always be grateful to the bassheads of these forums for introducing me to world of the 'big servo' subs.
    I did like my M&K VX-100 & REL Q400e....
    There and again, i like egg & chips!

    Adzman




    :) :) :)
     
  26. Ian J

    Ian J
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    If you haven't got kids you may not have discovered Ice Age.

    Believe me - discover it
     
  27. bob007

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    I think a simple home demo without over complicating matters is all we are after, most of us know what we are after in a sub. Get a bunch of subs different makes and models and just put them through there paces. Would think just setting them up and positioning them the same without getting too scientific would do for us for the kind of results we are after.


    Then at the end the conclusions could be made like - Sub A @ £2500 was a class act, but even though Sub B @ £700 sub was outclassed it represents very good value for money and so happened to outclass another make costing £500 more, or, Though the two subs here were the same in price Sub A was distorting at medium levels were as Sub B wasn't

    I think that is what most of us are after, value for money and the performance of the sub sounds good to the individual. IMO specs don't mean diddly squat, the figures stated are probably reached by getting the sub to perform in conditions that could never be recreated in the home anyway, to me they are just a sales gimmick.


    :)
     
  28. Guest

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    Ian

    Luckily for me, my girlfriend is as soppy as a sack, so she got this without me having to buy it!....

    I agree, some quality sub moments.

    Good film as wellAdzman
     
  29. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    but isn't this what we have already?
     
  30. bob007

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    Didn't mean it to come out excactly like that, I suppose it's all the various posts I've read that I tend to think and post the same way.

    I don't think it always turns out that way (fairly predictable), if we could get something together I bet we could have some different and surprising results to report. :)
     

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