The Beginner's Guide to the Great Superbit Scam

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Indeed - I did ask that it be kept polite, non-personal and, heavens forbid, not increasingly circular - but it seems that's not possible.

Please refrain from deliberate "baiting" and keeping to the actual issue - which again is - why can't Sony just release the "Superbit" edition transfer as the standard disk as opposed to making 2 separate versions, one with normally an inferior transfer compared to the Superbit one.

Maybe they should follow Fox's example by issuing a 1 and 2 disk edition, giving people who want the extras or not that choice, but not sacrificing the movie itself?

P.S. The irony of using the spellchecker - it thought Superbit should be corrected to Superbad.........
 
Seth Gecko said:
Maybe they should follow Fox's example by issuing a 1 and 2 disk edition, giving people who want the extras or not that choice, but not sacrificing the movie itself?
Exactly Seth. That's a true example of choice. The facility is one I've availed myself of, as several of these Fox titles available in the one or two disc options, tended to be filled with extras of the entirely disposable kind - MTV puff-pieces for the movie and such.

Having said that I recently saw the 2 disc set of The Day After Tomorrow for £4.99 in a sale -a movie I had never seen- and had a dip. After watching the movie it left me with the feeling that I'd wished I'd had the option to buy the extras disc and skip the movie. :D
 
im new here, and i wanna thank pauley for starting this thread.

... after buying superbit spiderman 1 & 2 for 9.99 usd each (great price btw) i totally bought into 'superbit' bug.

so i just purhcased the japanese superbit gladiator, the first thing i noticed was that its bitrate wasnt anything special, and that it was pretty much that of my fathers 'normal nonsuperbit' gladiator dvd.

the picture quality looks pretty much IDENTICAL, and even tho the bit rates on both dvds are VERY VERY CLOSE, i hate to admit that most of the time the bitrate on the nonsuperbit gladiator is higher then the superbit version!!!
 
Its not all about bits, i have the region 3 edition of Sahara, the bitrate constantly hovers or stays at 10mbp/s throughout the movies running time, i personally think the picture qualities ok on this disc but i happen to think its far from perfect and a little soft at times ( maybe its the same with all regions but i don't have anything to compare with )

Superbit is in principle a good idea but i personally think it doesn't always give the desired picture quality ( due to various reasons like edge enhancement or poor film prints used )

Having said all of the above i would still be the first in the queue to buy Jurassic Park Superbit if it was re-released as i think Universals standard edition looks ragged on a large projection screen, hmm in fact scrub the Superbit release i would like a re-release from Universal and this time i would like them to get it right and use a decent print.
 
FoxyMulder said:
Its not all about bits

exactly. if the original source material is shoddy and of low resolution, encoding it on the dvd with little or no compression wont do much, the source material sux anwyays.

for an excellent quality dvd u will need a mastered version of the interpostive/negative/excellent release print, and then cleaning up all frames removing dirt and scratches, like wut they do for all hte thx certified releases (ie. t2 extreme, star wars, indiana jones trilogy), and THEN encode onto dvd with a high bit rate with minimal compression.

on that note, having an excellent high def source to encode the dvd from but then compressing hte **** out of it onto dvd wiht a low bitrate encoding will still yeild a dvd that looks liek crap.

i have to agree with pauley, i took a look at a few of my sony/columbia dvds recently (non superbit), movies as recent as bad boys 2 looks pretty SHITTY on my projector (other hten hte closeup shots), its a 2 disc dvd too, so since hte movie is primiarly dedicated on one disc, there really isnt an excuse for that. on the other hand, i find that paramount's dvds (godfahters, indiana jones) are all encoded at a high bit rate comparable to superbit and have very good quality. but u dont see hte premium price there, nor the gimmicky labelling, but most importantly, the need to buy the same movie multiple times jsut to get a verson that provides a high qulality transfer thatll stand the scrutiny of todays hd/edtvs/projectors.

o and i have jurassic park 1,2,3 superbits, i hanvet seen hte nonsuperbit release version, but they look alright on my optoma 31 on a 90 inch screen. not 'AMAZING' but good.
 
I have some so called THX releases and trust me THX is not a sign of quality, an example would be Star Wars - The Phantom Menace which is riddled with very bad edge enhancement and unwatchable on my projector ( roll on a re-release sometime soon ) another example would be Tombstone ( vista series ) great movie but once again it has very bad edge enhancement, THX unfortunately does not cover the entire product from the mastering of it to the production facilties where the edge enhancement was probably added ( probably by some idiot working one of the machines and watching a small monitor )

Superbit and THX get bad reputations when just one title is less than stellar quality, the companies releasing titles under such banners should realise this and work towards ensuring top quality dvd releases and large screen monitors should be used when producing these discs so mistakes regarding edge enhancement are not made.
 
JohnG said:
I think to a lot of people "ease of use" means that you don't have to wait for minutes whilst those stupid animated menu systems perform their tricks after every selection you make :D

And one day you might be OBLIGED to sit through all the trailers - Just wait, adverts around he corner with no bypass option :eek:
 
FoxyMulder said:
I have some so called THX releases and trust me THX is not a sign of quality, an example would be Star Wars - The Phantom Menace which is riddled with very bad edge enhancement and unwatchable on my projector ( roll on a re-release sometime soon )...

u are right, i have seen some shitty edge enhancement in a few dvds (most recently the japanese versions of kill bill) and i always mistook the problem being cuased by a low bite encoding, but in fact it is heavy edge enhancemnt applied @ low frequecies. funny thing is i just popped in and watched the notrorious die hard 3 on my optoma h31 and and OMG it was TERRRIBLEEEEE... ive never watched die hard 3 on the big screen yet (popped in die hard 2 2 weeks ago and it was fine). funny tho i still mamanged to sit thru the enitre film - largely due to the dts sount track, but that is one movie that is in desperate need a remaster. :D ...
 
Just watched a non-Superbit DVD that is a perfect example of what we have been discussing here.

The recent R1 re-issue of Star Trek: Nemesis is a 2 disc set with extras on disc 2 and the movie on disc 1. The the pic and sound quality of the movie is absolutely superb. One of the best looking transfers to disc that I have ever seen, with an average bitrate of around 8 and a half meg. Note - that's average - quite often this baby is hitting the 10 Mbps mark.

Overall a stunning image and a textbook example of how it should be done.

Oh yes, and in addition to the DTS and DD soundtracks they also include two separate audio commentaries and a pop-up text commentary feature on the movie disc, and still manage to produce a superb quality transfer of the film. :smashin:
 
FoxyMulder said:
THX unfortunately does not cover the entire product from the mastering of it to the production facilties where the edge enhancement was probably added ( probably by some idiot working one of the machines and watching a small monitor )
Agreed - the THX certification should be based on a viewing of the finished product.

Same in the hardware sector. While there is a lot of good quality product with THX approval, some decidedly average kit also carries the THX badge.
 
the_pauley said:
The recent R1 re-issue of Star Trek: Nemesis is a 2 disc set with extras on disc 2 and the movie on disc 1. The the pic and sound quality of the movie is absolutely superb. One of the best looking transfers to disc that I have ever seen, with an average bitrate of around 8 and a half meg. Note - that's average - quite often this baby is hitting the 10 Mbps mark.

altho i totally agree with u that superbit is indeed a marketing technique by sony to re-release a superior dvd of everyones favorite film so that movie goers will purchase 2 discs, how is this re-issue of star trek nemesis any different? i have hte r1 nemesis from 2 years back, and its no means an amazing transfer .... thus giving someone like me reason to buy the movie, twice (not that im going to, i'll prolly buy the re-release of first contact instead).

Is there a thread on which dvds are excellent picture quality of high (7+) bitrate that also have clean little/no EE??
 
Hi guys, hope someone can help me out here - i've ordered a new plasma (Panasonic Viera 42PE50) and am expecting delivery this week... and am currently looking to get a few DVDs like Spider Man 2, Kingdom of Heaven, House of Flying daggers.. etc just to see the best picture quality possible on the new plasma.. really wanna impress the missus :)

I've just thought however that given that these superbit DVDs are meant to have better pic quality, although it seems some think its just a scam - but i'm thinking i might just try out the Spider Man 2 Superbit dvd , instead of the normal one... anyone know how the pic quality compares on the two ? I mean surely there must be noticeable improvement with the superbit on a 42" plasma..

Also any other recommendations guys, I'm looking for a few DVDs which can really bring the plasma to life! :)
 
The PQ of the superbit spiderman 2 i thought was terrible, ive not seen the non superbit version but i thought it was worse than most of my other disks though i had put this down to it being NTSC as a result it has put me off the idea of getting anymore R1 films but maybe i was wrong.
 
yauyin said:
i have hte r1 nemesis from 2 years back, and its no means an amazing transfer

I also have that transfer from 2 years ago and consider it better than most Superbit titles, it was pretty good back then and nothings changed regarding that, it looks superb on a large screen ( 106 inches in my case ) i won't upgrade just to get dts and slight picture improvements ( I would upgrade a number of films for a good dts track but not this film as it disappointed me.

I believe The Brown Bunny is the latest Superbit title to be released at least thats what a few internet searches have shown but i'm not the least bit interested in that film.
 
Toy Story, Nemo, Incredibles.
Star Trek: First Contact. If set-up nicely (lots of greys and blacks) i think Sin City is quike striking also.
 
Steve.EX said:
Toy Story, Nemo, Incredibles.
Star Trek: First Contact. If set-up nicely (lots of greys and blacks) i think Sin City is quike striking also.

other then first contact & toy story (which i havent seen via progressive output via a projector) i have to agree that these dvds mentioned are indeed amazing picture quality.

i would have to disagree wiht the above poster sayign that spiderman superbit has poor picture qulaity, i have both spiderman 1/2 superbit nad the PQ imo is great, not that im saying all superbit titles are great quality (i have all 3 jurassic park superbits, and the picture quality is subpar for a superbit title despite a high bit rate)
- lord of the rings (extended editions) are beautiful too
and i just picked up the rock - criterion edition, this disc is a MUST have for those of u wiht a high end system. the picture quality and amount of detail is AMAZING.
 
Docta teef said:
The PQ of the superbit spiderman 2 i thought was terrible, ive not seen the non superbit version but i thought it was worse than most of my other disks though i had put this down to it being NTSC as a result it has put me off the idea of getting anymore R1 films but maybe i was wrong.
If this is your only NTSC title, then I have to conclude that there is something not right about your setup as regards NTSC sources. It's often the case that many settings need to differ between NTSC and PAL and that equipment bought in Europe is optimised at the factory for PAL. Viewed on properly set up equipment, there really is little to choose between NTSC and PAL discs, all other things being equal.
 
how is this re-issue of star trek nemesis any different? i have hte r1 nemesis from 2 years back, and its no means an amazing transfer...
Sorry - disagree. As Foxy stated the original release is superb quality.

Where this differs from Superbit is they didn't release a deliberately degraded copy first and release another extras-free version with better PQ a month or so later. When they did reissue the title (2 years later) they gave us a two disc set packed to the gills with extras - and at a budget price.
 
LV426 said:
If this is your only NTSC title, then I have to conclude that there is something not right about your setup as regards NTSC sources. It's often the case that many settings need to differ between NTSC and PAL and that equipment bought in Europe is optimised at the factory for PAL. Viewed on properly set up equipment, there really is little to choose between NTSC and PAL discs, all other things being equal.

Fair enough you may be correct if so how would i go about correcting this problem as i would of course prefare to have the option of watching NTSC disks
 
the_pauley said:
Sorry - disagree. As Foxy stated the original release is superb quality.

Where this differs from Superbit is they didn't release a deliberately degraded copy first and release another extras-free version with better PQ a month or so later. When they did reissue the title (2 years later) they gave us a two disc set packed to the gills with extras - and at a budget price.

To be fair they could have released Star Trek nemesis in a two disc edition first time round like most major films from the last couple of years... Mind you for such a crap movie does it even deserve a re-release?

It's at budget price in the UK ?
 
Docta teef said:
Fair enough you may be correct if so how would i go about correcting this problem as i would of course prefare to have the option of watching NTSC disks
It's a separate topic and belongs more properly in a hardware forum, I'd say. And, before anyone might help, we'd need to know more about what you perceive to be wrong with this particular title.
 
yauyin said:
i have all 3 jurassic park superbits, and the picture quality is subpar for a superbit title despite a high bit rate

Are they definatly originals? I have seen so many people bang on about how those discs are supposedly reference material.....

Couldn't bring myself to pay the price to find out though.
 
Well as a quick over view as far as DVD goes im running a pio 757 dvd to an H56 pj via component if you wish to move this part of the thread id be only to happy. The most obvious thing with the spiderman 2 disk was the text in the papar that JJ was reading looked very jagged. Having thought about it i also have an NTSC version of kill bill (R3) witch i would say looks fine
 
shaithis said:
Are they definatly originals? I have seen so many people bang on about how those discs are supposedly reference material.....

Couldn't bring myself to pay the price to find out though.

hmm perhaps not, if it were a copy, i would assume it would be an exact copy. The disc is 7.36 gigs. The superbit menu is english. And does contain dd and an awesome dts track. The encoding when I watched the disc was always 7-8 mps.

I would agree with the picture quality assessments from these reviews (JP 1: 8/10 JP2: 7/10)

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93385
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101431
 
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