The 4th toasted speaker cone!

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by M5Sime, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. M5Sime

    M5Sime
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    AMP power issues? Just how powerful is yours ??? Dear AV fans. I have a power/speaker/wife question for you...

    I have had toasted on 4 occasions (by the wife) the main driver of my Tannoy R1s (overheated (not dead) voicecoil that grates on the former.

    The x-overs were also toasted once.

    I am using a Marantz SR6200 rated around 110w per ch I believe.

    The issue is less to do with exuberance on the vol dial (which of course it is). The issue is clean power and amplifiers, but something more fundamental.

    The R1's are perhaps not the most efficient speaker, but pretty close to good (around 89db/mW?) and handle up-to 200w. I find that in most normal TV situations, the Marantz lives around -20 on the attenuation and should I want to play a movie in loud mode.. then it is easy to get to -5 and to 0..

    In direct mode, the power of the amps is more evidently directed to 2ch. I work in Pro TV and know a thing about audio. I am using digital sources from DVD and Sky+

    Either my Marantz is far off the game and sending some DC the way of the speaker when driven hard (and so over rated o/p), or the Tannoys are not up to it. It still does not answer the question that loud, just does not seem that loud with the dynamic range and a level setup set of 5.1. I seem to need quite alot of power to wake things up.

    Tannoy RC and R1s, Mordaunt Short Bipolar surrounds and REL Strata Sub. Marantz SR6200 AV Receiver..

    Comments and observations welcomed (other than keep the wife off the system!). Do you seem to have plenty in reserve on your systems?? Most AV amps do not have much more power.

    BR

    Simon :oops:
     
  2. Adam Shaw

    Adam Shaw
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    I do remember the R1's being quite fragile if the amp was cranked up. Great speakers, but dont hammer them!.
     
  3. M5Sime

    M5Sime
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    Thanks Adam,

    Having replaced the drivers around four times, they are not (that) expensive or that beefy as you say. The crossovers as well had overheated over the years of home cinema duty and I was surprised (bulged caps that I replaced with far larger items and cracked ceramics). All signs of being 'hammered' as you say.

    The odd thing is I really would not call it this. More like once a month a real blast and a movie that might be cranked.

    I am trying to work out if more clean power is the answer, or new speakers (and what to replace with? Monitor Audio RS6, spendor?).. Its 90% home cinema and some music as well. I was getting concerned that my Marantz was living at -20 for good TV dialogue level (from -75), and so too near the end stop of its reserves.. I know the missus managed a +3 on the amp during a party (very rare :) and this is not good.

    Cheers

    Simon
     
  4. Adam Shaw

    Adam Shaw
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    Get some big floorstanders!
     
  5. M5Sime

    M5Sime
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    OOPS.... I meant to say R3's - Sorry.. They are BIG floorstanders:oops:
     
  6. Adam Shaw

    Adam Shaw
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    You blew R3's!

    that takes some doing, I have never managed to bust a pair of them!
     
  7. M5Sime

    M5Sime
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    Hi Adam,

    Hence my concern that this may be the Marantz as the weakest link.. The reason I posted this in the Receiver section is to get some ideas on just how much in reserve people have with similarly rated amplifier stages.

    I recall the reviews of the R3s stated that they needed a good quality and power amp to drive them well.

    I have always subscribed to the too much clean power is better than more capable speakers and a lower capacity amp.

    I have never killed a driver, but the voicecoils have deformed enough to grate and the x-over has had a baking. I too was very surprised..

    BR

    Simon
     
  8. Sniper

    Sniper
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    Deformed vcs, baked x-overs !!! That's sounds like an clipping-amp's doing. Before any damage was done, did the sound start to 'break' at loudish volumes? Did it ever go into protection (assuming it has!)?

    Are they set to 'large'? If so - set them to small .... but i'm pretty sure this is a power issue, or rather a lack of power issue!
     
  9. M5Sime

    M5Sime
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    Hi Sniper... The Marantz has never once tripped.. It has happily spanked the speakers into the gain range of +3-4 on the dial (I stress this is ultra rare and was due to some drunken exuberence).. Shame manufacturers do not offer a 'max' vol mode that a user can set (eg for kids left with the system)..

    The reason for getting into this issue is perceived loudness, or rather lack of.. With the dialogue of DD and the dynamic range of most movies, it is possible to have the vol into the -12 (from -75) for a typical cinema/loud TV listen.. Of course there are other ways to compress the audio range, boost the centre speaker for more dialogue, but these are all bad fixes in my mind. It is always the midrange driver as well (bass and treble drivers seem happy).

    In Direct mode (just removing the processing, even in stereo) the stereo mode is louder, so Marantz are making some level adjustments before. I am just thinking of what receivers do others have and how much do they have in reserve on a typical listen!!
     
  10. Sniper

    Sniper
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    The fact that it's always the midrange driver could be realted to crossover design or that driver's isolated impedance (or a combination of both) ... incidentally does the damage occour on both speakers?

    As for the speakers getting louder on direct mode - this is more to do with the fact that there's more power (electrical power) for 2 speakers rather than 5, and digital circuitry is off - i doubt there's any gain adjustment!
     
  11. M5Sime

    M5Sime
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    Hi Sniper, Yes BBQ ceramics, bulged caps on both x-overs had me replace these with new parts (and much larger sized, but identical value audiophile caps). It really did sound better after this..

    The drivers come from Tannoy and are quite reasonably priced

    What receiver/speakers do you have and just how much in reserve do you think you have with the loud knob?

    Cheers

    Simon
     
  12. Badger0-0

    Badger0-0
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    To answer your question, my Denon 3803 runs at similar levels to yours for everyday telly (-25dB) and quite often gets the max in 5ch stereo mode.
    I'm actually more concerned about the amp giving up the ghost first.
    I'll be gutted if my SVS speakers go the same way as yours.

    It would seem that your amp is underpowered at face value, but I doubt it very much. Marantz quote 105W per channel.

    I would guess the speakers just aren't very robust.
     

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