1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

TH42PW6, DVD, Component or JS RGB to VGA

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by ihan, Sep 10, 2004.

  1. ihan

    ihan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2004
    Messages:
    624
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Stockport
    Ratings:
    +25
    Hi,

    Current kit:
    1. Panasonic TH42PW6 with TUPT600B tuner box (don't laugh).
    2. Sony DVD DVP-NS930V (has interlaced and progressive scan component output along with RGB SCART)
    3. Grundig skybox with RGB SCART output.
    4. Panasonic SCART input board (came with plasma).

    My main gripes regarding the picture quality are as follows:

    1. From any RGB scart socket on the tuner box, I get a slight white halo (ringing) around black edges (this is with the sharpness set to medium). If I reduce the sharpness it disappears, but I'm left with a soft picture. I have also tried the panasonic scart board, and it gives an identical picture. I have concluded that whatever electronics is in the tuner box, it is the same as the plugin scart board. Does the JS scart RGB to plasma VGA box fix this problem?

    2. With my DVD player, if I connect it up via SCART, I get the phenonmen as explained above. If I use the component input with my DVD player set to progressive scan, I don't, but if I set it to interlaced output I do. However, in component progressive mode, with some discs, I can sometimes see additional momentary lines in peoples lips and eyes, very difficult to describe, but looks like somekind of scaling phenomena to me. This isn't apparent all the time, and only seems to occur with PAL discs. As you can see, I am undecided whether scart or component is better?

    3. Both scart and component inputs suffer from colour banding, a classic scene that demonstrates this is "the abyss" opening scene with the submarine coming towards you. Instead of getting smooth gray/blue colour changes in the sea, I can see distinct colour contours - it looks like the display lacks a large enough number of colours. I am aware this is a feature of plasma displays, but can anything be done to improve it?

    Anyway, I want to buy some kit to improve matters. It is well known throughout these parts, that the best way of getting a signal from a sky box into a plasma is a JS RGB to plasma VGA box. So I'm going to buy one.

    My question is, "What about the DVD player"? It offers all connection types and has 2 scart sockets, so I could feed the sky box through it. The question is, which offers the best picture quality, RGB scart (via JS box) or component. If you think it is component, I am going to have to buy a component input board in order to find out.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Regards,
    ihan
     
  2. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    The Sky box will some "improvement" using the JS box since it will bypass the factor that is degrading the signal (the scart terminal in the plasma or tuner). This will only remove the softness and not the general compression artefacts associated with Sky.

    Colour banding is something that your connection medium isn't going to solve, the Panasonic SD panels suffer this more than the HD panels due to the internal processing.

    If you want to make significant improvements to your picture consider installing a dedicated video processor; Sky, DVD and any other sources you have will connect to this, and the processor will run to the plasma either via native resolution (or close to it) into the PC socket, or as has proved successful, via 720P into the PC socket or component video input. This won't make a huge difference to the colour banding issue but will give you a sharper, more detailed image from all sources.
     
  3. pjclark1

    pjclark1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,411
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +271
    I thought you said you had a component board??
    But anyway component video can be fed in the VGA connector with a component to VGA cable (£15-£20)

    A progressive signal is always best (but you can only get progressive from the component output of your dvd player)
    Any signal that is not progressive will be best routed as RGB through a JS scart RGB plasma to VGA box.
    Colour banding is a "feature" of the plasma/lcd system.
     
  4. ihan

    ihan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2004
    Messages:
    624
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Stockport
    Ratings:
    +25
    Thanks to both of you.

    So if I want the best sky picture, use the JS device which occupies the VGA port. For the DVD player you are recommending that I don't use its scart output but rather the component output. At the moment I don't have a component board, I've been using the component input on the tuner box; so I'll buy an RCA component board.

    Why is progressive component better that interlaced RGB scart? Does the DVD player convert a signal from interlaced to progressive better than the plasma does?

    Regards,
    ihan
     
  5. pjclark1

    pjclark1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,411
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +271
    480i only sends 240 lines each frame
    480p sends 480 lines each frame
    so "p" is twice the definition of "i" (sortof)
    you can either get
    1) a component board + component cables
    2) a VGA board + component to VGA cables
    both will do the same job, I prefer the VGA route and it's a tiny bit cheaper

    The panny screens have problems with all SCART inputs, maybe a few shortcuts
    in the design. Plasma screens are really PC VGA monitors with a few bits added &
    they expect good syncs, I suspect the problem lies there as SCART has only low
    level mixed syncs (0.3v) taken off the composite line. The JS box creates fantastic
    quality separated syncs of between 0.5v and 2v without macrovision.
     
  6. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    Yes, unless you want to upgrade your system with a dedicated video processor :D
    Yes or as posted above another VGA board, although more cable suppliers do high end RCA leads than do high end leads with VGA connectors.
    That is essentially the question, is the DVDs video processor better than the one in the plasma. The DVD player has an additional advantage of being able to process the signal direct from disc, before any digital to analogue conversion has got in the way. Haven't seen the Sony 930 but I would imagine the better results will be with it in progressive mode although the difference won't be earth moving.
     
  7. ihan

    ihan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2004
    Messages:
    624
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Stockport
    Ratings:
    +25
    Hi,

    Thanks for your answers. I think it's time to start saving up again in order to buy the HD panel. Does the HD panel completely eliminate the colour band problem - or is it just an improvement? Later I could then add an iScan (or similar) to get an additional improvement.

    Would any retailer give me a decent trade in price for my pw6 (which is only 2 and a half months old) or is the best place the classified ads?

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  8. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    The HD panel is a massive improvement since it uses different processing to not suffer the 50Hz banding that the PW6 suffers (IIRC it's the sub-field drive for PAL that halves the amount of gradation to display twice as many frames per second to achieve smooth 100Hz pictures). Do you see the banding on NTSC (R1) DVDs? If not you could try getting your DVD to output everything as 60Hz NTSC (if it has that option). Otherwise a video processor with decent frame rate conversion.

    Not sure if you will get much for your PW6 (unless you bought it for not much). The price seems to fall 50 quid every month or so!!
     
  9. ihan

    ihan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2004
    Messages:
    624
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Stockport
    Ratings:
    +25
    Hi Liam,

    I see it on NTSC discs as well as PAL. If it is the internal framerate conversion that causes these bands, does an external video processor fix the banding problem if it is able to drive the display at 50Hz (PAL) or 60Hz (NTSC)? I lived with a 50Hz 32" CRT panasonic for years, and was never upset with the flicker. I'm trying to ascertain which is the best path - external processor or upgrade to the HD panel (after selling my PW6).

    Thanks once again for your advice.

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  10. Sinister

    Sinister
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    If you want to boost picture quality the pany with the scart connection try connecting s-video and composite to the scart connection. This will boost contrast quite a bit. However there is a hitch. for some reason after a while the pany display will stop letting you use both s-video and composite at the same time. It will instead give you 2 inputs through the scart. One s-video and one composite. You will notice that if you keep pressing input button on your remote to the plasma the scart imput will stay twice. If this happens I would then sugest you connect your set-up wuth s-video.

    I haven't tried the TUPT600B tuner yet so I cannot compare picture quality.

    If you want an explanation of de-interlaced progressive scan see this website. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2305. It's refering to a graphics card but its the same technology. It should give you an understanding of why some dvds gives image glitches.
     

Share This Page

Loading...