TH37PE50 "sweet & sour"

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by johnny-17, Nov 7, 2005.

  1. johnny-17

    johnny-17
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    First impressions of this set 'WOW' who needs HD if progressive scan delivers such bright detailed and vivid DVD's (even freeview is superb)! However, 5 days on I am now not so sure as I occasionally have problems with 'colour banding'. Tried all screen settings but it still crops up. Spoke to Panasonic who suggest that I get an engineer to call or return to retailer for exchange. I know these options may solve the problem but am I expecting too much from current technology, as I have read of similar problems from other screens/manufacturers? Would welcome any suggestions/advice from people that know a 'heck of a lot' more than me?! BTW it was a hard decision between SD & HD!! Has my cost saving cost me too much??
     
  2. Faust

    Faust
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    Sounds more like your settings to me. I have never experienced such problems on my PE50. You need to post what settings you are using e.g. Dynamic, Normal, Cinema, PNR on off etc. etc.
     
  3. johnny-17

    johnny-17
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    I've tried most setting combinations one way or another but my current settings are :
    Normal
    Contrast 50%
    Brightness 50%
    Colour 45%
    Sharpness Min
    Colour balance normal
    Colour management off
    P-NR on
    MPEG-NR off

    I've tried P-NR and MPEG-NR both on and off, it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference (do you think it may get better after bedding in?) Any further comments appreciated. Many thanks.
     
  4. martinthorn

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    It could be the source material. On most plasmas I have seen (I looked at quite a few before buying) I saw some colour banding, though usually only with lower bit rate digital channels..If you see it often with a DVD source then maybe there is a problem.

    Then you have a good set and good sources !

    Martin
     
  5. dave owen

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    I have had a 42PE50 for 3 days and also noticed some colour banding (on Lost via Sky Plus). It did bother me at first but on 99% of viewing you don't notice any. Watching the same lost clip passed through the DVD Recorder and into the component inputs the banding all but disapeared (a tip i gained from Majid).

    If I had paid for a PV500 and seen the colour banding i'd have been distrought to say the least.

    My settings are
    Cinema
    Contrast 50%
    Brightness 30%
    Colour 55%
    Sharpness 65%
    Colour Balance Normal
    Colour Mment Off
    P-nr off
    Mpegnr off
     
  6. StinkyPete

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    what exactly is colour banding?
     
  7. chrisw

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    I'd let in run in for a few weeks, mine has improved no end in the 2 months I've had mine.
     
  8. Mr.D

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    I've not seen a plasma yet that doesn't exhibit banding (posterisation). Take heart in the fact that its almost imperceptable at normal viewing distances on the panasonics. Its pretty abominable on most other brands...and don't even get me started on LCD.
     
  9. UKseless1

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    Keith - I'm with StinkyPete in asking if someone can point to a good explanation for colour banding. Although I'm almost afraid to ask, I think we all spend too much time looking for faults in our screens rather than just enjoying them.
     
  10. Mr.D

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    There are two main causes of colour banding/posterisation. One is a digital sampling issue( not enough bitdepth to preserve the full intensity range... the effect you'll see on your computer if you drop down to 8bit from 32bit).

    The other and more likely cause of posterisation in most digital displays is a designed compromise to allow a contrast limited panel to show a pleasing image most of the time at normal viewing distances.

    Essentially intensities of the image are crushed together so you see wide bands of flat colour instead of smooth gradiation. If the manufacturer is doing a good job the response curve of the panel will place these artifacts into an area of the picture where they are felt to be less objectionable typically: near black and near white.

    Whilst you might well notice banding on the panasonic if you are close to it , at normal viewing distances they shouldn't be too objectionable. Most other panels are MUCH worse , the pannys are in a different league but the posterisation is still there.

    There is one other potential cause of posterisation ( especially towards black) and thats if the video intensity range is clipped at 16 and 235 (8bit code value range) and then remapped to 0-255. Not only does this chuck away all information outside the clip ( not such a big deal in my book) it also causes a contrast change with the result that intensities towards black and white get crushed giving rise to posterisation.)
     
  11. StinkyPete

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    the only thing I noticed on my pe50 in the first 2 days where on the edges of the picture when they went out of focus you could see pixels slightly, this has now almost gone and was only on the darker colours everything that was in focus was perfect. Would this be banding?
     
  12. DJT75

    DJT75
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    Would like to help but haven't seen my 37PE50 for 6 weeks now.

    Tiny vibrating noise from one of the base speakers, couldn't be arsed to go back to ebuyer.com so contacted Panasonic directly. Local panasonic engineer turned up the next day to collect screen saying it would be 7/10 days....Panasonic still haven't released the part they need so i've been plasma-less for 6 weeks now & there's still no ETA on the engineer's order from panasonic....Stuck watching CRT upstairs at the mo - maybe it would've been better going back to ebuyer.com but then they wouldn't have the part either....... :confused: :suicide:
     
  13. UKseless1

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    Thanks for that explanation Keith.

    DJ, sorry to hear you are without your screen, hope it gets sorted soon.
     
  14. gnikolaidis

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    I have my 37PE50 for four months now, and the only occasion I have noticed colour banding / posterisation is with bad quality DVD's. for DVD viewing I use component input and "Cinema" settings.

    On regular aerial TV the colour quality is unpredictable and largely depends on the quality of the signal being broadcasted. Although we tend to believe that what we see on the screen is a signal with PAL vertical resolution specifications, the reality is different and many programs are broadcasted with a lesser resolution.On TV channels that broadcast in high quality PAL signal the picture is great. On other TV cannels is just plain awful.
     
  15. johnny-17

    johnny-17
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    Thanks for the replies ,
    I guess I'll stick with it and see if I can get the 'perfect' settings sorted out. I'm trying not to too critical because the picture for SD is stunning on a good day. I watched Trial & Retribution last night with no ill effects, so I guess the problem may be very infrequent. I agree with dave owen in that I would more upset if it were a PV500.
     
  16. g@djet

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    I've just changed my sony Wega 32" for the PE50 and I'm impressed with the picture but occaisionally you do see the odd funny, I'm putting down to the broadcast quality and the fact that I'm looking at the picture rather than watching TV, if you know what I mean...
     
  17. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    This post by Rahmorak gives an excellent example of what it means.

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1755756#post1755756


    The PE50 has it, the PV500 has it but not as bad, the PW6/7/8 also has it, however the PHD6/7/8 does not, and none of the above screens have it really bad.
    Have a look at a Samsung and you will see it all the time.
     
  18. Faust

    Faust
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    Well I must be one of the fortunate few that either has a truly brilliant PE50, a fantastic signal via Freeview (which I do actually have) or a near perfect Sky setup (pretty dammed good) or a combination of all three. However, I think the real secret of my success and happiness with the PE50 is none of the above, no the real secret is I just sit down of an evening and watch t.v. I don't sit there examining the picture for slight imperfections, I look what's in my Sky+ planner, hit play, sit back and relax watching a nice large screen t.v. ah the bliss. Some of you need to try this sometime, you will be surprised how much more you get out of your purchase by doing this simple thing.
     
  19. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    spot on! :smashin:
     
  20. johnny-17

    johnny-17
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    As this is my first post I can honestly say that this forum 'works' as I have received the advice and sympathy I had hoped for. Perhaps I am expecting a lot of my TV in expecting it to be perfect, but as I work in retail - solving all sorts of quality/design/fault issues daily I generally am aware of the smallest detail, which does not always help and if anything makes me 'fussy' about quality. To some extent Fuast is correct in mentioning that some people seem to study their TV's instead of just watching the programme but you can't always help seeing whats in front of you (my wife doesn't notice the colour banding as I do!).
     
  21. UKseless1

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    Giz - Thanks for the example. Must say I've not seen anything exactly like those examples on my 8 perhaps I'm just not that sensitive to it, only time I've seen anything close is on the lower bitrate channels on Sky where you see some blocking occur at times. Having said that, now that I know what to look out for I'm off to channel surf to see if I can see examples of this, which is contrary to Faust's common sense advice but it's all part of the fun :D
     
  22. Dekim

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    I am about to take the plunge and buy the Panny TH42PE50 and you've started me worrying. I read on other post how great this is for a SD screen and now I read this! If I buy the screen and notice this banding/posterisation and can't live with it using Sky+ then would buying a scaler solve this? (also the girlfriend will kill me if the picture isnt better than the 36" Phillip CRT!!)

    God all this technical stuff is doing my head in

    Deks
     
  23. StinkyPete

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    I went from a 36" phillips to a 42pe50 and mine is great, I did see this effect on the first 2 days but it was only on the edges of the screen on stuff which was out of focus anyway, background walls and the like, when I had changed all the settings I could hardly notice it, after a week I don't see it at all, and the picture is better than the Phillips.
     
  24. Dekim

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    Thanks Pete,

    I feel a bit better now am going to see if I can demo one at Comet tomorrow with the g/f in tow :thumbsup:

    I posted on another thread asking if its worth adding a scaler to reduce the banding / posterisation but It will prob be best living with the plasma for a while first

    Cheers

    Dieks
     
  25. pjd@nl

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    I would just like to add that, with a digital source, the picture on a a PE/PA50 is superb. Yes, there is some noticable banding .... but only if you watch from 2 feet!!!!

    With a viewing distance of 10' from a 42" you will not notice it.

    When I watched Later ... with Jooles Holland last night ... it was just pure joy!! Every guitar string, piano key, drum stick was crystal ... the only disappointment was now being able to see how much make up Sheryl Crow had on!!
     
  26. Dekim

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    Tx [email protected],

    I've just been checking out the prces and they are all around £1600 online. I wonder if the Comet store will match their online price if I asked. I would prefer to do this in case of the hassle of trying to swap it if it has dead/stuck pixels etc

    BTW our viewing distance will be approx 7-8 feet from the screen. I'm hoping this wont be a problem.

    Cheers

    Deks
     
  27. martd77

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    hi
    i have to agree with a lot been said here re the pe 50,to me there are colour issues and the out of focus noisy edges,i am quite disappointed with it and could i afford to send it back id consider doing so,but as its not "faulty" it would cost £70 upwards to return and its cost that already returning another plasma to a different supplier.
    I have to say just like faust sit back and dont look at it too critically cos i could pick holes in it all day as some of us have done.
    As far as running in the panel is concerned id read about this on here but the local panasonic shop said it was rubbish and he laughed saying its a myth! well im not tempting fate im using it on normal settings for a while then will look at upping the levels to my satisfaction.
    Were are getting a new sky 160 box so im hoping that new wiring will sort a lot of the fuzziness out on the sky picture.
    We watch some things and think,wow thats stunning and others are so poor its like watching a 70s colour tv!
    Purchased ours from www.letsgodigital.co.uk cos the price was good with the free dvd recorder and the salesman knew his stuff.
     
  28. Dekim

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    ack, I might have to change my mind again! I was under the impression the picture on the pe50 was great and now Mart's comments (of which I appreciate) may mean I look at saving up a bit more to get something better

    Ack and i've just got a buyer for my 36" crt :(

    Deks
     
  29. MAT365

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    out of focus noisy edges ??

    are you sure this is not MPEG atifacts blow up to large screen size
     
  30. the highlander

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    i have had my pe50 (42) for about 6 months now and I'm very happy with it .
    i got this to replace a tosh 36zp ( a fantastic TV , it now lives in my bedroom ) .
    i use cable TV (blueyonder) and i do get a crap picture on some channels and a near perfect picture on others , i cant comment on the free-view as i don't get it in my area ( west Scotland ) .

    this is a great TV folks , i had a LG plasma before , and i got it replaced by this one .
    anybody getting one new should run it in as advised on here . ( i would rather listen to the advice of people on here than from somebody in a shop trying to sell you what they have and get the best profit from you :lesson: )
    i have run HD demos on component on my TV and it looks great ( it will downscale to the native res but it looks dam fine to me )
    if you must insist on the pv500 get it its a dam good set , but my personal thinking is get a pe50 ( 37 or 42 ) enjoy the savings and in a few years , upgrade to whats best on the market at the time :thumbsup:
    and one more thing , did you know that blueyonder ( cable TV ) will be introducing its own PVR ( like sky plus ) with HD .
    i will be getting one of the first available ones ;) and i will be able to test HDTV ( all be it downscales to the res of my panel ) running component .
     

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