Terrible render quality in Sony Vegas - broken file/bland blurry video

Stewox

Standard Member
Hello

I'm relatively new to all this stuff, but still generally I'm advanced PC user.

Basically I'm finished with 1 hour worth of a project, and i have several sources.

The sources them selfs are recoded to an intermediary, which retained pretty much all of the quality.

The sources are various, all of them FLV which ,


But it's been a few weeks and I really put a ton of research and I tottally forgot how I encoded from Sorenson Spark and nellymoser audio but I got them into MP4 and wma and it plays nicely, retained the original lag-timecodes.

There was a huge issue of finding the correct inermediary since all of them dropped the timecodes when the original video lagged (the sources are ustream files, very odd settings and also stuff like mediainfo reporting wrong frame rate and the laggies that occured live when there was poor net connection)


So i found the correct one which is plain "MPEG 4 Visual" , created about 5 times the original size of the file, much better than Lagarith and Cineform, which also none of them retained the originally lag-timecodes. I was remuxing before, trying tons of configs, but the MPEG 4 thing was a recoding by ImToo Video Converter, absolutely fantastic result.

So here are the configs (latest mediainfo)

WAC-1-FLV-SOURCE:

Code:
Format                                   : Flash Video
File size                                : 197 MiB
Duration                                 : 32mn 31s
Overall bit rate                         : 846 Kbps
Writing application                      : Ustream.Tv
Tagging application                      : Yet Another Metadata Injector for FLV - Version 1.8

Video
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC                   : No
Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame
Codec ID                                 : 7
Duration                                 : 32mn 28s
Bit rate                                 : 802 Kbps
Width                                    : 640 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 28.823 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.091
Stream size                              : 192 MiB (97%)
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601

Audio
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 10
Duration                                 : 32mn 31s
Bit rate                                 : 19.9 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Channel positions                        : Front: C
Sampling rate                            : 11.025 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 4.95 MiB (3%)
WAC-1-MPEG4-INTERMEDIARY:

Code:
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile                           : OpenDML
File size                                : 1.28 GiB
Duration                                 : 32mn 28s
Overall bit rate                         : 5 631 Kbps
Writing application                      : Lavf51.12.1

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile                           : [email protected]
Format settings, BVOP                    : No
Format settings, QPel                    : No
Format settings, GMC                     : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix                  : Default (H.263)
Codec ID                                 : FMP4
Duration                                 : 32mn 28s
Bit rate                                 : 5 624 Kbps
Width                                    : 640 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.611
Stream size                              : 1.28 GiB (100%)
Writing library                          : Lavc51.40.4
ALEX-1-SOURCE:

Code:
Format                                   : Flash Video
File size                                : 71.8 MiB
Duration                                 : 16mn 31s
Overall bit rate                         : 607 Kbps
Writing application                      : Ustream.Tv
Tagging application                      : Yet Another Metadata Injector for FLV - Version 1.8

Video
Format                                   : Sorenson Spark
Codec ID                                 : 2
Duration                                 : 16mn 27s
Bit rate                                 : 551 Kbps
Width                                    : 320 pixels
Height                                   : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.113 fps
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.286
Stream size                              : 66.9 MiB (93%)

Audio
Format                                   : Nellymoser
Codec ID                                 : 4
Duration                                 : 16mn 31s
Bit rate                                 : 31.7 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 5 500 Hz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 4.49 MiB (6%)
ALEX-1-INTERMEDIARY: (fps is correct, audio handled separately)
Code:
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom
File size                                : 85.1 MiB
Duration                                 : 16mn 27s
Overall bit rate                         : 724 Kbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-07-01 02:57:40
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-07-01 02:57:40
Writing application                      : Lavf51.12.1

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC                   : No
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=12
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 16mn 27s
Bit rate                                 : 722 Kbps
Width                                    : 320 pixels
Height                                   : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.376
Stream size                              : 84.9 MiB (100%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-07-01 02:57:40
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-07-01 02:57:40
Color primaries                          : BT.601 PAL
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.470 System B, BT.470 System G
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601
VLOG5-1080p-HD-SOURCE: (no intermediary, looks like crap too)

Code:
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42
File size                                : 505 MiB
Duration                                 : 11mn 34s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 6 096 Kbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-06-07 10:16:03
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-06-07 10:16:03
gsst                                     : 0
gstd                                     : 694345
gssd                                     : B4A7DDA07MH1370761844929364
gshh                                     : r7---sn-4g57kuee.c.youtube.com

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 11mn 34s
Bit rate                                 : 5 902 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 17.2 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 24.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.119
Stream size                              : 488 MiB (97%)
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-06-07 10:17:06

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 11mn 34s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 192 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 202 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 15.9 MiB (3%)
Title                                    : IsoMedia File Produced by Google, 5-11-2011
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-06-07 10:16:48
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-06-07 10:17:06
ALEX-HD-720p-SOURCE (used directly):

Code:
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42
File size                                : 44.2 MiB
Duration                                 : 2mn 26s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 2 539 Kbps
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-06-09 19:14:42
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-06-09 19:14:42
gsst                                     : 0
gstd                                     : 146191
gssd                                     : B4A7DDA24HH1372633073232649
gshh                                     : r4---sn-4g57kuel.c.youtube.com

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2mn 26s
Bit rate                                 : 2 393 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 3 971 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 30.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.087
Stream size                              : 41.7 MiB (94%)
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-06-09 19:14:45

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 2mn 26s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 144 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 150 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Channel positions                        : Front: C
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 2.51 MiB (6%)
Title                                    : IsoMedia File Produced by Google, 5-11-2011
Encoded date                             : UTC 2013-06-09 19:14:44
Tagged date                              : UTC 2013-06-09 19:14:45
----------------------------------------------------------------
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

----------------------------
PROJECT PROPERTIES
----------------------------------------------------------------

1080p
Square Pixels
progressive
Gaussian (no off switch?)
Adjust source media to better match rendering settings UNCHECKED
30 FPS
Audio: Best, 24bit, 48000khz
Ruler: Frames and Time
 

Stewox

Standard Member
-----------------------------
RENDERING SETTINGS
----------------------------------------------------------------

FIRST:

x264vfw_x64:

.Avi
1080p
0,5 sec interleaving
zero-latency
slower
H264

Filesize: 1081MB
Result: Unplayable / Broken (no start, blank video, no error, youtube processing failed)



----------------------------
SECOND:

MainConcept:

1080p
square
progressive
Variable Bit Rate
1.5 K avg
4 K max
High
1 ref frames
progressive DL off

Result: Total **** quality.
700MB


-----------------------------------
THIRD

Main Concept:

same
progressive DL on
3.5K avg
6 K max

Result: Still poor quality.
1.7 GB


-----------------------------------------
FOURTH:

Main Concept:

same
25FPS

Result: Doesn't look different, i'll code with Sony AVC in 25fps to see if it is different with others at 30fps.
1.1 GB


-----------------------------
FIFTH:

Sony AVC (Cabac):

1080p
progressive
square
High
CABAC
Adjust fps by source UNCHECKED
5.5 K (constant)
Result: Half of the quality
Filesize: 2.6 GB



-----------------------------------
SIXTH:

Sony AVC:

same
8.5K

Result: A bit better, still bad loss, it's SD so it's noticable quicly.
Filesize: 3.9 GB



---------------------------------
SEVENTH:

Sony AVC:

same
12.5K

Result: Still quite a noticable loss but it could be acceptable if the rest of the vid was fine.
Filesize: 5.5 GB

Anyways, all those HD sources looked like ****, all blured out, what the HECK is with these bluring and whitening ?


--------------------------------------
EIGHTH:

x264vfw:

same
Ultrafast
6000 K

Result: same
Filesize: 1.1GB

-------------------------

It just bad, colors all bland and washed and I don't even know what is all going on, I don't even know all the terms to point out, someone has to look at the pics I provided.

Basically I think there something wrong here, this just can't be, It's ridicolous. The variable bit rate should have worked to basically discard everything that's always black, it shouldn't need the same bitrate if it's just occupying less than half of the 1080p area right? . I have no idea what the heck I need to do, I've looked all these configs from other youtuber, but I know i didn't found the best anyways, but still, 8K and looks quite a loss there.

I encoded one in 25FPS and it was same thing, I don't know where fps-recoding options are in vegas. What is being done when more frames are being "made" and maybe if the blur type is the cause.

Also I watched one Youtube vid where a guy shown to extract from Vegas a big file and then recode it with another program but I can't find that command or it wasn't vegas, i'll try to find the video I was looking in my history.


PICS:

Looking at the grass and trees ... terrible.

As bas as it already is because it's SD footage, i want to preserve it, I don't care how long it takes to encode, if it takes one whole day even.

3.5K
http://shrani.si/f/2P/4w/4gLJRhP3/vegas-wac1-35k.png


8.5K
http://shrani.si/f/1/yU/Xinu2ls/vegas-wac-85k.png
 
Last edited:

Stewox

Standard Member
Guess I learned the hard way, did a ton of experimenting with tons of rendering done, on sample shorts, finally found one great advice about enabling YT's "original" quality settings.

All the tutorials out there are a pile of ****, total nonsense. Uploading to youtube, a very crappy buggy site, is not going to work well with stupid Sony or MainConcept AVC/MP4 - Youtube's processing makes bitrate average based on LENGHT with AVC, i tried the same quality on an 45 (down from 2:22 min) second clip, the bitrate was so low the file ended up only 480p.

When I uploaded the lossless compression, the problem went away.

The point is to render with high-quality WMV as a transport rather than delivery, which is done by the server.
 

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