Terrestrial switch off

Discussion in 'Satellite TV, Sky TV & FreeSat' started by KAO, May 21, 2001.

  1. KAO

    KAO
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    That was the idea behind the IDTV. Every TV would have the equivalent of a Set Top Box (STB) built in, and so it wouldn't matter. Of course in practice this has proved not to be as simple as it first seemed. I don't know of any IDTV that has a built in Sky decoder (will Sky even licence it?!) and I beleive even the OnDigital IDTV have suffered from the lack of a Conditional Access Module (CAM).

    The government ruled that analogue cannot be switched off until digital TV is available to some high percentage of the population (95%? I can't recall the exact figure). Note the word 'able'. It means that if some form of digital TV is available in your area they can switch off analogue even if people are still receiving it...these people will be forced to get digital TV if they want to continue watching.

    Given the problems surrounding this whole thing (there was some early plan to have the digital broadcasters pay for replacement of VCRs etc, but this was soon dropped) I don't know if the government have revised their criteria for switching off analogue...but I doubt it very much.
     
  2. kennydies

    kennydies
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    191
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +4
    It just does not seem practical. We have three TV's. One in the lounge, one in my room and one in my brothers room. They are all good TV's so it would be impractical to replace them with IDTV's. Each additional Cable decoder is £5 a month. Basic cable package, with all the free to air is £12 a month. So to get the same service as free to air we would have to pay £264 a year extra. Does that seem fair?
     
  3. KAO

    KAO
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well, no, it doesn't. But I don't think 'fair' was in the government's minds when they proposed all this (or more likely had it proposed for them). But I heard that the typical date bandied about for the big switch-off was 'sometime around or after 2010' so chances are your good TVs won't be that good by then. Trouble is, currently there doesn't seem to be anything to replace them with (IDTV-wise) that would ensure even a modicum of future-proofing.

    I would hope that in the next couple of years it's all sorted out, that every TV on sale is an IDTV, with a pluggable CAM to cater for your choice of digital TV (Sky, Ondigital or cable). All this of course at little or no extra cost to the consumer. And look, there goes that flying pig again...
     
  4. kennydies

    kennydies
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    191
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +4
    Can you watch one channel and record another with IDTV?

    I thought I heard the Government wanted to bring forward the switch off date?
     
  5. KAO

    KAO
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Whether it's a 'normal' TV plus STB or an IDTV (ie with STB built in) you still need two decoders, which right now (for Sky at least) means two subscriptions.

    The much-talked about PVR being jointly developed by Pace and Sky apparently has two decoders served by the one subscription card, thus letting you tape one channels whilst viewing another...it would be pretty pointless if you couldn't. Whether Sky will extend that idea to other STBs is a different matter. Personally I'd like to see Sky open up the design of the STBs to other manufacturers...right now they control everything, which is why they all work the same. Great for Sky's marketing dept, not so great for consumers.
     
  6. kennydies

    kennydies
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    191
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +4
    What happens when the Terrestrial signal is eventually switched off? I presume the plan is that everyone will have cable and satellite by then. But this will be a huge problem, as you will only be able to watch one channel at a time and this will make VCR's less useful. I know somone will say have another decoder but this will prove expensive to a lot of people especially as you will still be expected to pay your TV licence. There are quite a few people with more than 3 TV's in their household and to have a decoder for each TV would be very expensive.

    Thoughts?
     
  7. Fartpants

    Fartpants
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    "to have a decoder for each TV would be very expensive"

    I am sure that is what these companies are banking on.
     
  8. paiger

    paiger
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Interesting replies. At the moment I can watch Digital TV through my ondigital box and record the analogue channels through my VCR. I guess I would need a VCR with a digital tuner in it to watch and record different digital channels. On the subject of having a box for each TV, yes you would. However, I believe in a while you will be able to pick these up for very little, allowing you to watch free to air digital channels on any TV. I would certainly go for this as I could get 9 or so channels in my bedroom as opposed to 4. IDTV's are currently only available (as far as I know) in the big screen variants, I guess the extra tuner put's too much price premium on smaller sets.

    The Sony sets have a digital tuner, allowing you to watch free to air digital, and also a PCMCIA slot which can take Ondigital modules. I want to know when SKY are bringing out a module to fit these for sattelite. It just means one less box, one less remote.

    The big problem of course, is coverage. Digital TV is patchy at best and most people have problem channels or limited reception. I believe the output power is due to be doubled shortly which make a huge difference to many. Until analogue is turned off though, the problems will occur due to bandwidth and collision problems.

    To the person who started this discussion, there are no plans to turn off terrestrial tv, just analogue. It simply means you need a digital tuner. There will be some pain, but we have to move on sooner or later.

    Steve
     
  9. harvy2020

    harvy2020
    Novice Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2001
    Messages:
    57
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +0
    I thought I heard about Newer Box's that will have twin tuners in them or something???

    So one output can go to the Video and the other to the TV.
     
  10. KAO

    KAO
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Unless you are talking purely about the free-to-air channels, the issue is not so much with tuners, as with decoders. To watch one Sky channel whilst you tape another Sky channel you currently need two decoders, which currently means two subscriptions.

    This is patently unfair, as you've already paid your monthly fee to watch all your chosen channels. When Sky say, for example, "8 pounds per month for the Movie Channels" (or whatever it costs), what they really mean is "8 pounds per month for the Movie Channels, as long as you are not watching any of the other channels you've already paid us good money to watch". Outrageous. They should be selling STBs that offer two decoded outputs (at least) from a single subscription card. At least they have had the good sense to realise that a PVR without this capability is worse than useless.
     
  11. MartinImber

    MartinImber
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Messages:
    3,854
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Worcester
    Ratings:
    +21
    As a Sony IDTV owner I am safe if analogue goes off as long as I don't want to record 2 programmes.

    Day after we got our TV analogue shut off for the day at the transmitter - I wondered what had happened as I was watching BBC DVB-T but BBC PAL had gone.

    Well I need 3 more DVB-T tuners one for my SL-HF950, one for the old 25" TV and one for my portable. The Sanyo and the vhs junk can share a Nokia box I still have from Ondigital.

    I am planning to aquire 3 more boxes by car boot sale and smaal ads in the next two years, I will also get a DTTV HD recorder eventually.

    OK I hate Murdoch because he killed BSB and owns the Sun
     
  12. paiger

    paiger
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I don't know what all the fuss is about with people having to get digital. Let's face it, every council house in the UK has a sattelite dish. I think they must give them out with benefit books.

    Love

    Steve
     
  13. General Skanky

    General Skanky
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    4,253
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Colchester
    Ratings:
    +44
    The whole thing is a farce and totally unrealistic.
    Firstly, analogue only sets still sell strongly in the shops today, and will do for quite some time to come.
    Secondly, as stated, people have 2-3 sets, poss 2-3 vcr's in a house. No way will they be easily replaced.
    Thirdly, unless digital tv is freely available as analogue, you will 'always' have the 'I don't like change' bunch, and they exist in their millions.
    We are an enlightened bunch here and in the mag. But if you add the readership of HCC and others and all those with digital now, work in the industry etc, you can maybe account for 10,000,000 people in the country with 'good' knowledge of what is going on. Wild guess I know, but it's 20% otf the pop or so which I think is optimistic at best.
    Even if we all told someone else, their knowledge and more importantly their understanding of it all would be lacking, and what they pass on goes down the chinese whispers route.

    It would be a very, very brave government that switches off analogue in the next 10 years, minimum!!!!! Political suicide for sure.

    [ 31-05-2001: Message edited by: General Skanky ]
     
  14. delta

    delta
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Messages:
    469
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    North East Cheshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    When Tony @ No 10 starts to LISTEN to the people of this country, then maybe it won't happen, but if he doesn't, then switch off will be sooner than we expect.
     
  15. Tel boy

    Tel boy
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2001
    Messages:
    147
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK-North East
    Ratings:
    +5
    I belive Panasonic make an IDTV with sky & ondig tuners built in. Tel. :)
     
  16. Metric

    Metric
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I heard that there is a minimum the government need to provide, ie bbc 1,2 itv, c4, c5. I also heard that due to the fact that they used old frequencies they cant boost the single, so our area for example is pants reception.
     
  17. Fartpants

    Fartpants
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Last week on News 24 there was a bit about how the government was trying to beat it's own target of 6-10 years for the switch off.

    The industry reckon they can get 95% of people signed up to one of the digital providers. The government need 90%-95% (I think I can't remember precisely) for the switch off.

    Maybe when we get to that 65% then digital tuners will be cheaper and punters will pay a nominal fee for a free to air box.

    Predicting future public opinion is difficult, hard to tell how this will all go, for all I know within the next 6 months all TVs may have to have digital tuners built in!

    The following link gives the 2010 cut off date, but admits that is optomistic.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/new_media/newsid_1264000/1264090.stm
     
  18. mjwhitehouse

    mjwhitehouse
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    It is so simple it is almost laughable. Middle imcome people like myself will have our tax allowances frozen, NI contributions raised, some allowances removed altogether, fuel duty will rise and there will be increase in tax on savings all to pay for decoders for those "voters" who can't or won't change . This is how all of these things happen, why will this be any different.
     
  19. squid

    squid
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2001
    Messages:
    546
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    the big uk
    Ratings:
    +0
    i havn't even bothered with analog for well over a year . i did'nt have to good a pic so from the time i got sky dig i aint bothered with it .

    actualy my arial fell down and i never even noticed it till somone told me . just left it down . itv is crap and i never used to watch it anyway

    i can't wait for the box with the twin tuners to come out though . dose anyone know when it's comming out and if it will have a digital sound output??
     
  20. General Skanky

    General Skanky
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    4,253
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Colchester
    Ratings:
    +44
    Me too Squid.
    My aerial came down, so I kept the NTL basic pack for ITV which is only watched now and again.
    Sky for everything else.
    But we are a minority.
    As above, I do fear we will 'pay' for others to have digital. Same as always.
     
  21. squid

    squid
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2001
    Messages:
    546
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    the big uk
    Ratings:
    +0
    if it's going to happen it could do with hurring up and then it's done with .

    the same with everything it's all the pi**ing about that makes hings worse. i blame tv manufacturers . if they just stuck a digi tunner in everything then digi tuners would cost next to nothing and everyone would have one.

    for an example if they produced didgi tuners instead of normal tuners for all the vcrs . they would sell more vcrs and production costs for the tuners would plumit and we would be able to record on another channel.

    if the govenment want's to get rid of analog . i would have thought some sort of tax insentive for the manufactures if they put a digital tuner in somthing rather that analog .

    just an idear . probaly not going to happen though
     
  22. karla

    karla
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I predict the analogue switch off will never happen. The Govt, Digital companies etc are panicking at the moment as the figure of people installing digital has stalled at around 45-50%. OnDigital lost around 140 milion pounds last year! There are many people, myself included, who do not want/need any extra channels and feel that 5 is quite enough. In many cases people will simply see it as companies trying to sell us something we already have. Most people do not care about digital TV, one look at the listings is enough to put anyone off!
    If the big switch off does come, then my TV set will simply become a screen for DVD or whatever.
     
  23. paiger

    paiger
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Loads of people said they would never turn off analogue mobile phones as well as there would be loads of people still using them for years. I'm not sure if they have yet but how many people have an analogue mobile now?

    I think within 2 years, all tv's will have digital tuners and as the cost falls, Pace and the like will be able to produce basic STB's for £20 or so. All most people will have to do is not spend their dole cheques on fags and Kays catalogues for a week. That should do it.

    Bear in mind that there are still places in the UK where they cannot get an analogue signal yet and sattelite is the only answer.

    S
     
  24. karla

    karla
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mobile phones are a good example. Although they are sited as the success story of the last few years, there are still around 30-40% of the population who do not need/want one. Again, like digital TV, the figures are slowing down and the market is now reliant on upgrades rather than new consumers. Imagine the outcry if BT announced it was planning to remove payphones. There was a mild fuss made when it announced it was not planning to build anymore!
    Unfortunate as it is, Digital/cable TV has a rather downmarket image, and it has a lot of work to do if it is to dispell this. Round the clock big brother and more soaps/game shows is hardly likely to improve this.
    No 5.1 sound either....
    If the switch off does come, and I do not think it will, Digital TV needs to be a vastly different beast than the one it is now...Some of messages above seem to presume that it is the middle class that have digital rather than the doleys, and that their taxes will have to rise to pay for them? I do not believe that the demographics show this to be true, unless it is the middle class that are the target audience for ambulance chasing lawyers and "free easy to get loans" (pay of debts and have a little left over to spend on fags, microchips and scratchcards) commercials? I thought not...
     
  25. paiger

    paiger
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    My comments about lower income people were purely a juvenile attempt to get an abusive response. Shame it didn't work.

    S
     
  26. Fartpants

    Fartpants
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I might expect at sometime an approach similar to the current players.

    All the companies try to get people to sign up by offering sports. Some events are guaranteed free to air, such as the cup final.

    So if the government want to move things on I would not be surprised if these events become free to air via digital providers but not via analogue.
     
  27. paiger

    paiger
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yeah well, in many places the only way to get channel 5 is through digi. That should convince most people.
     
  28. karla

    karla
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    big events such as cup finals?
    two words - pubs and clubs.
     
  29. kennydies

    kennydies
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    191
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +4
    we had a diabolical signal on terrestrial, and as the basic NTL package (including phone rental) is not much more than the basic BT phone rental we decided to purchase NTL. We are perfectly happy with the picture and the channel choice.

    1 We do not want to upgrade to NTL digital as we would pay an extra £7 a month plus installation to receive the same channel choice we have at the moment

    2 We will not buy an IDTV as we have recently purchased a top of the range Sony TV which will last many years to come. Also with an integrated TV what happens if you want to retain the TV and upgrade the box, it is just a bigger hasstle.

    3 Would not want terestial to be switched off as then we would be stuck with with 1 channel choice.

    As mentioned B4 if you could only watch 1 channel at a time why would we still have to pay for BBC, just does not seem fair.

    These all need to be addressed B4 anything is switched off

    That is my penny's worth in.
     
  30. paiger

    paiger
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Firstly, I think you have the biggest problem that will be faced by the government, poor signal on digital. Until the thing works properly they can't even think about forcing people over.

    Secondly, I am getting a new TV soon and will be buying a Sony IDTV purely because it is the most flexible option for a small premium. It will still pick up analogue, I will get extra free channels and I have the option of getting Ondigital without an extra remote and stb.

    I agree that it is not future proof but if you need to in the future you can just get an stb to do whatever is required. In the meantime, I'd rather not have one.

    I should have pointed out that I will be renting a TV as I feel prices will drop dramatically in the next 18 months and I will be able to afford a much better one.

    Thirdly, terrestrial includes digital TV. It reffers to TV signals transmitted from our network, straight to homes.

    On the subject of watching one thing and recording another, you can only do this because your vid and tv have seperate tuners. Soon vids will have digital tuners too but it will mean upgrading.

    I hope they turn it off sooner rather than later so we can make some progress and stop moaning about everything.

    Regards

    Steve
     

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice