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Tell me about Zoe/Leaf

Discussion in 'Hybrid, PHEV & EV Electric Cars Forum' started by Bubblin, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. Bubblin

    Bubblin
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    Yes, that's correct, there is a version called the Zoë I, which the buyer owns the batteries outright.

    Buying second hand means you need to get the new buyer of the car (which could now be 4years old, to take over your battery lease straight away) it's this part that people are not agreeing to, by leasing the vehicle for to or three years, you can just dump the car back to t lease company without the faff of signing contracts, getting the new buyers bank details, contracts. Just seems a pain, reading through the Zoë forum, some people have cars bought by them three years ago, leasing the battery trying to upgrade to a new Zoë, and Renault refusing to offer anything for their old car, effectively making it worthless?
    So in my view its not worth buying the car at £9k when you can't sell it, better lease it for two years, then lease a new one then.
     
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  2. Sloppy Bob

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    You can buy a Leaf without leasing the battery. New or used.
     
  3. outoftheknow

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    i don't disagree - but if the seller has leased the battery that is leased from Renault to keeper the cost of the car down. A buyer that chooses not to lease the battery has not paid for it and I am sure Renault retain the right to disable the battery remotely.

    If the seller has purchased outright then the sale price will reflect the cost of the battery outright. If they are leasing the battery then the sale price is the car with no battery effectively. Totally unfair if buyers believe they can buy the car without paying for the battery - lease or outright. It should make no difference to sales new or secondhand as long as Renault deal with unpaid for batteries.

    If I can buy a second hand car and refuse to buy the battery (lease it) why should I be able to drive the car one inch using the battery I haven't paid for?

    The car was cheaper at first and all sales for a reason - because the battery was leased and belongs to Renault. Even if the cost of the battery is finally covered by lease payments to Renault it still belongs to them and you are effectively paying a rental cost. The owner at the time the battery cost is covered can't expect to be told by Renault that battery payments can cease and certainly cannot at that point increase the value of the car by the value of the battery as though it was bought with the car.

    I can see why there is reluctance to buy second hand but Renualt simply need to administer the batteries according to the sales agreement. If leased it is leased forever for every owner. Car cost depreciates the same as any other and lease costs stay the same. If the battery fails you get another at no additional cost under a lease so no problems.

    If the battery is purchased from new then the cost of the car includes the battery and the whole amount depreciates at a market rate. If the battery fails the owner at the time deals with it via the manufacturer same as for an engine failing.

    Owners choice what they want to pay for. Not paying should be an option dealt with by Renault disabling the battery remotely. I would have no issues with that personally.
     
  4. paul cliff

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    I'm seriously considering a Leaf for my 12 mile each way commute, sounds like the perfect option.

    I'm a little confused by their website though, it says from £16,530 OTR but when I click on the deal its giving 4 'deals': £25,233.55, £23,630.00, £27,405.44 & £26,961.10

    What am I missing here?

    Looking at the current deals they are doing £179pcm with £6k deposit, no final payment or £229pcm with 2k deposit + £10k final payment, what would you go for?

    I assume the latter I would just give it back and get a new one?

    As for my situation at home, its kind of...odd.

    I bought the house 2 years ago, my garage is not directly attached to my house, instead it's attached to next door's garage, so between my house and my garage is next doors house and their garage.

    Apparently my next door neighbour and previous owner of my house came to an agreement and put electric into my garage, but fed from the neighbours supply (they already had electric in theirs) with an energy meter which the previous owner used to work out how much he owes my neighbour (told you it was odd).

    Anyway, it all amounts to a few quid a year as the only thing he was using electric for was the motorised garage door he had put on.

    At the time I had no issue with this, and agreed to carry on this arrangement, but I wonder how this would impact my getting an electric car. I guess I would need to agree with the neighbour first.

    I have contacted Chargematser to see if they would be able to run electric across his property to my garage (with his permission) but the email I got back simply said to call them, which I'm yet to do. I might at some point try and find out why my garage never had electric in the first place and if anything can be done 'officially'.

    Sorry to ramble on....

    Paul.
     
  5. Sloppy Bob

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    Depending upon their electric tariff as well it may mitigate some of the financial benefits. You want to be charging the car with off peak electricity. If they don't have an off peak tariff it will cost you double to charge the car.
     
  6. PSM1

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    How many years are those 2 deals over?
     
  7. paul cliff

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    just had an email back from charge master:

    Doesn't sound like its do-able to be honest, theres no route I can think of them taking.

    £229 - 37months @ 3.99%
    £179 - 25months @ 0%
     
  8. paul cliff

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    Good point I'll have to find out.
     
  9. Bubblin

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    The leaf currently gets about £5k deposit contribution towards the cost, bringing the price to around £16k, I wouldn't buy an electric vehicle at the moment due to future value,


    I'd be looking for a leaf at £500 deposit, and £150 a month on 8k per year, just be careful you get the non-flex as this includes the battery, the flex deal means you need to rent the battery separately.

    The previous offer expired as Nissan gave a few lucky leasers £10k deposit contribution.
     
  10. outoftheknow

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    Had a look at the UK site and up front it definitely says excludes mandatory battery hire

    Electric | Vehicles | Renault UK

    I buy for that price new and a year later sell the car. The buyer pays the car value minus depreciation but cannot possibly pay me, the seller, for the battery - it is not mine.

    I am still missing why the second hand market is a hassle and absolutely missing why Renialt dealers wouldn't buy them at trade-in :confused:
     
  11. paul cliff

    paul cliff
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    That sounds great, so you think I'd be able to get that walking into a dealership?

    Realistically I can probably cough up 2k for a deposit.

    With regards charging, it doesn't look like I could have a home charger thing installed so I'd be stuck with 3pin plug socket, is this really a problem considering I'm doing <25 miles a day?
     
  12. Bubblin

    Bubblin
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    Yes, possibly, it takes about 4 hrs to charge on a standard fast charger, you have to use the supplied slow charger which will charge an empty battery in 12 hrs

    Remember by charging on a 13 amp socket places an immense load on that circuit as most circuits are rated at 13amp peak not continuous, so cabling, plugs and sockets have to be able to handle that constant load!

    Have you considered the Renault Zoe, some great offers from Renault including a free charge station if you need it.

    Latest offers
     
  13. paul cliff

    paul cliff
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    OK, I've got a lot to get checked out then before I can really consider buying one.

    Cheers
     
  14. hippy240980

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    You could look for rapid chargers near you which will give you 80% in around 30 minutes. Going by some taxi companies using leafs with rapid chargers they have not seen much in the way of degradation on the batteries using it all the time.
    Most rapid charges need a card which you can get sent out to you for a small fee
     
  15. paul cliff

    paul cliff
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    There is actually one up the road from work, but unfortunately its only available to people using the park and ride there, which I have no need for.

    Doesn't seem to be any other particularly near by (within about half hour)
     
  16. AMc

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    It might be worth investigating getting an independent, metered supply to the garage if you're seriously considering an electric car - That way you could get any kind of charger you like installed - I think it's reasonable to assume that electric cars are here for the long term so having a charger in your garage is a long term investment in your house as much as for your current convenience.

    We had to get an uprated 3 phase supply when we installed heat pump central heating as the old supply was unrated. It cost a couple of thousand to tunnel cable under the road, splice into the supply under the street and replace the meter.

    First point of call is to work out where your electricity supply and your neighbours come in from the street and work out a route that would work for the new feed to come into your garage without crossing your neighbours property. As your garage is already connected to the street that shouldn't be too problematic :)
    Assuming you can do that then contact your electricity supplier for a connection quote. We had 2 options, pay a little and wait for their convenience to survey or pay a bit more and have them come quickly. In both cases the cost of the survey was refunded if we did the installation which we had to do so it was kind of academic.
     
  17. gangzoom

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    You might have just missed the best deal with Q1 just finished. But the announcement of the Model 3 might push other companies to come out with better range EVs sooner. If your not desperate for a new car I would personally hold off for another 6-12 months. The longer you wait, the more battery/car your get for your money.

    Regarding charging from a 3pin socket, your have no issues. A Leaf will charge at 3kWh from a 3 pin plug, at 4 miles per kWh, an overnight charge (8hrs) will pretty much give you 70-80 miles of range.

    I also wouldn't worry too much about the socket, I charged mine up once from a barn, where the plug wasn't even wired in properly (the whole plug point was hanging off a wall), no issues.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. paul cliff

    paul cliff
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    Yeah long term that's looking like the way to go, I emailed UK power networks today to see what options I have.

    Short term I may have a solution.

    On the way to work I drive past a park and ride, which is about 25 mins walk from work, it has a polarplus charger there so I could just use that once a week and charge at home in an emergency.

    I do 140 miles a week so I think one full charge a week should do it?

    It's £3 to use the carpark/park and ride, so about £11 a month with a polar plus account.
     
  19. paul cliff

    paul cliff
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    Ha! Good to know thanks!

    Good advice re waiting also, I might give it a few months at least, getting married in August so will at least get that out of the way.
     
  20. PSM1

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    Unless you pay extra for the 7kWh option (about £1k I think) on the Leaf then the home charger will only charge at 3kWh anyway which is the same as for 3 pin. We have a home charger but did not pay for the 7kW upgrade and we have had no issues with charge times. The car is easily sat on the drive for 8 hours a day so always fully charged.
     
  21. gangzoom

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    Some dealers are doing good offers already!!

    £249 deposit, £249/month for 3 years, and free home charger - This is a buy-buy price so no extra battery rental on top. That's on the new 30kWh car, so your see 110-120 miles real life range summer and 80-90 miles in winter.

    For Sale - Nissan LEAF 30kWh PCP Offer with free PodPoint install
     
  22. paul cliff

    paul cliff
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    Looks good, I'll see what my local branch can offer me.

    Had an interesting email from UK PowerNetworks today, I had assumed that using my neighbours supply 'officially' was a big no no, but it seems not...

    " If you wanted to run off your neighbours' supply, that connection will need to be carried out privately by a qualified electrician."

    I've asked for clarification on how this would be setup so I can be properly billed for using it, but this might be the answer as I'd probably have the work done to make it 'official' either way.
     
  23. gangzoom

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    ^^ What's the issue with your powe supply? I was under the impression a home 7KW 32amp charger draws no more power than an electric oven or a tumble dryer.

    It took one man in a van about 1hr to fit our home charger. But we do live in a new build so clearly the electrics age bang up to date. The car charge point has its own meter, so you can see exactly how much electricity your using to charge the car.
     
  24. paul cliff

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  25. paul cliff

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    Just an update on my conversation with UK Power Networks...

    "Thank you for contacting UK Power Networks. You can a run sub-main cable from your neighbours existing supply provided your agree with him. You may be able to get a separate meter for this but you will need to confirm this with the supplier. As I mentioned this is private work carried out by an electrician, perhaps you are better off consulting one on the best way forward."

    So it sounds like they don't actually have any problem with this, I might talk to an electrician and get their opinion.

    I'm still confused about the legal situation with all this though.
     
  26. mikeburns

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    Could you have the charger on the side of your house? Ours is on the outside of the garage, as I can’t be bothered with putting the car inside every night.
     
  27. paul cliff

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    Mid terrace unfortunately
     
  28. AMc

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    @paul cliff -
    You can ring an electrician to confirm but I don't think they'll be able to help you with supply side work.

    Unless your neighbours supply enters his property at the garage i.e. that's where his meter is then you're going to need to run a hefty cable from his meter cupboard to your garage which is probably more trouble that it's worth when you consider your garage is connected to the road which is where the supply is (probably) routed. Surely the same rules apply to running a cable from his meter to your garage as would running a cable from yours across his land i.e. he might be OK with it but a new owner could ask you to remove it all?

    When we had our work done I contacted my electricity supplier who opened a case with EDF who contacted me for the survey and did the works (along with a road contractor to dig the holes and another to put out the traffic lights!).
    My electrician was not allowed to touch anything on the supply side of the meter and I was forbidden by the EDF contractors from even digging the trench obetween my front wall and the pavement as this is technically highway and only licenced contractors are allowed to do work there.

    Are your meter cupboards internal or external - might make it easier to work out where the supplies are and what you might be looking at in groundworks.
     
  29. paul cliff

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    His electric meter is on the side of his house, next to his garage, mines by my front door (outside).

    UK power networks have told me that I have to fill out an application form for installing a new supply to the garage, but looking online the info seems to suggest this can cost several thousands (up to 10k!)

    I think the simplest option will be to see how my neighbour feels about me buying an electric car and just using the current setup, the only impact to him would be a few extra quid a month bill (and payment from me).

    But long term, if we sell or he sells, it might cause a problem.
     
  30. gangzoom

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    I suppose it depends on how long you want to stay at that house for. For me EVs are 100% the future, I cannot see my self living in a house without access to a dedicated EV charging port. If your planning on living there for a while might as well poney up the money and get it sorted one thing for all.....Trust me, once you've owned an EV you wouldn't want to be going back to a combustion car :).
     

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