Technomate TM-5402 hd m3 vs Foxsat HDR

Discussion in 'Satellite TV, Sky TV & FreeSat' started by GrahamWebb, Jan 12, 2018.

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  1. GrahamWebb

    GrahamWebb
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    Hi I recently bought a Foxsat HDR and put the patches and custom firmware on and find it ok but I am seriously considering getting a motorised dish put up as have a south facing wall with a good arc of clear sky and like the idea of having a motorised system as a bit of a hobby and to see what I can pick up. I have seen a Technomate TM-5402 hd m3 for sale quite cheaply so am thinking of buying it to replace the Foxsat HDR already if I get a motorised system will there be a massive difference in what I can do between the two receivers?
     
  2. kevkbuk

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    Yes, in a word. :D

    5402 is a generic and not Freesat so has no official 7 day EPG, series linking or catchup services. It is also single tuner and not dual. It has no internal storage but can be used to record with an external HDD however recordings are in an odd format and not easily played back on PC or other devices without conversion (and I've had very mixed results with this...). 5402 has limited networking functionality and doesn't have the file sharing features of the custom firmware.

    That said the 5402 is a great receiver for a motorised system particularly when used with the Pedro2000UK/Purplesat channel list and for feed hunting. The UI is a bit old fashioned but channel zapping is quick. It also has other firmware available and is well supported.

    Personally I would leave your current dish up and continue to use the HDR for day to day UK stuff to take advantage of series linking etc then install the motorised system alongside it. They complement each other very well indeed. Then after you're bored of the 5402 you can add a Linux based Enigma 2 receiver to play with. :D
     
  3. kevkbuk

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  4. GrahamWebb

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    Thanks I need to look into getting a dish setup first as that will be the biggest expense. From what I have read the Foxsat is not great at finding the satellites and channels, it doesn't seem that great even with the non freesat channels through the sky dish. I have seen the purplesat site already and will probably go with a professional dish install as it will be better if the dish goes up high.
     
  5. JH4

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    I had a TM 5402 M3, but have upgraded to their TM Twin 4K. Very pleased with it. I use it with an external 45V positioner and HDD. ( Not much 4K content just yet, tho. ) I used to watch NRK from Norway for the skiing, but they changed the encryption, and it's lost for me now...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  6. logiciel

    logiciel
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    They don't come much more professional than purplesat.:D
     
  7. kevkbuk

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    What do you mean by this?
     
  8. GrahamWebb

    GrahamWebb
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    What I mean is when I do a non freesat tune and choose FTA I get alot of blank and encrypted channels. Its almost as if the channel frequencies are preset in the box rather than it scanning for new ones. Is this because the Foxsat cant do a 'blind search'? I have used the custom firmware to add a few of the non freesat ones to the freesat EPG though so that is less of an issue. Also I am finding the box a bit clunky for scrolling through the channels as there is quite a pause especially from going from SD to HD. I also have a couple of niggly issues with the sound output to my 5.1 system.

    Another odd anomaly I have noticed is the 1080i interlacing is really noticable at times on my 4k 65inch samsung like I can see the lines if I go up close and its especially noticable with scrolling credits sometimes the credits for Michael Portillo's train program is especially bad for a while then it clears up. I reckon thats because I have set it too original so my TV does all the upscaling.
     
  9. kevkbuk

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    They are, you need blind scan to find new TPs which I don't think the HDR has. I'm not sure that explains the encrypted and blank issue though sorry.

    The SD to HD pause is presumably your TV changing modes as you have that doing the scaling. Having the HDR do this will remove the pause but may reduce the picture quality, depending how good your TV scaler is. I've never experienced any sound issues with mine, if you're using HDMI try optical or vice versa.

    That sounds like poor picture processing software in the TV.
     
  10. pedro2000uk

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    Hhmm.

    Can't post a reply because I'm with a customer but you'll get a list of what the TM5402 can do from a different prospective later. If you could design a best box it would be the best features of the TM5402 and best of Enigma 2 ..
     
  11. GrahamWebb

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    The sound issues I am noticing from going from a Sky Q box that worked fine with lots of programs in 5.1. My 5.1 Logitech system only supports optical in no HDMI in so I have HDMI to the TV then optical to the 5.1 box. I have noticed nothing from the Foxsat box seems to be in 5.1 only 2.1 but that might just be very little 5.1 on the FTA channels. I get no volume control in HD channels using the foxsat remote and HD channels are quieter than SD. If I change sound output on the Foxsat to PCM the volume control works but everything sounds kind of louder and harsher.
     
  12. kevkbuk

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    There is little 5.1 broadcast on Freesat compared to Sky. Films on Channel4 HD are usually 5.1 and some BBC stuff. You should change volume on the surround system rather than the Foxsat for best quality and there is a difference between SD and HD, you should have noticed that on Sky too.
     
  13. GrahamWebb

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    So far I have not had any 5.1 from the system but will keep an ear out but it seems odd that new flagship programs on BBC like the David Attenborough ones don't even seem to have it. Picture quality on the Foxsat is pretty good except for the issue with the lines during motion and SD picture quality seems much better than it was on Sky Q. SD broadcasts just look softer rather than full of banding and compression artifacts like a 90s Realplayer file. I have an old Foxsat HD as well and got the lines during movement when I was using that in original output mode as well so maybe it is the TV. I thought the TV would have a good upscaler though as its a 1 year old Samsung.
     
  14. TJT1

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    Then turn down the SD (PCM) sound to match the HD then leave the box alone and use the TV's vol control.
     
  15. pedro2000uk

    pedro2000uk
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    That is what you do .. or have to do .. still a pain
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  16. pedro2000uk

    pedro2000uk
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    The TM5402 M3 has been incredibly popular, Kev is in networking so I think has a very different perspective, intuitive software is its number 1 attribute, something which the Enigma 2 receivers fall down on and certainly the early Foxsat Freesat, especially using them in multi satellite mode, most people people don't want a satellite receiver that they have to get a computer out and connect to it or spend 6 months learning & for many never get that far, they just want to pick a remote up and start enjoying using it & get to the level of use in days it can take a year or more to on an e2 box if ever as some things you can do on a 5402 you just can' t on an e2.... (& vice versa hence why having both is still not bad).

    The 5402 does have 7 day EPG. . On 28e you have to go on the EPG channel and leave it to load. It lets
    you set multiple clash protected recordings.. editing of recordings settings is second to none to handle 1000s of channels over multiple satellites .. again the intuitive software rocks where it can be an awkward process on other boxes.

    I don't know too many who take recordings and put them in pcs but they run ok in Samsung tvs & most use them from the box.

    EDIT- Having done some quick tests, I'm beginning to think unofficial patch software could have altered something as I'm sure they worked earlier on TVs & PCs too, we've even had recordings with official & very high bit rate sports broadcast rights, re-broadcast across a continent recorded from 5402 m3s. The M1/M2s had a different format & that sounds like maybe a coder of unofficial software has included older code? might try several versions when I get 5.

    Having USB drives is handier as you can swap them easily and record to usb & stick it in a compatible tv.

    You can also 'edit' recordings directly in the TM .. what other box does that ?

    Blind scan's been mentioned .. on the tm5402 it's very comprehenive. . on many boxes its non existent or some boxes that do have blind scans can often just scan everything without choosing an area/ pol etc.

    Editing channels and satellites properly which the 5402 can do very well .. means getting far more out of all the available channels .. most stbs fall down there..

    If I was back programming I'd recode the 5402 to add some things or recode the e2 to drag it kicking & screaming into an intuitive framework .. but even though e2 is
    open source I don't think you can alter the basic structure / code as all images seem mostly to be laid over that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  17. TJT1

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    I haven't visited anyone pedro.:laugh:
     
  18. grahamlthompson

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    Father Brown broadcast during the day is in 5.1 as is Blue Planet II. Leaving the Foxsat set at 1080i avoids the epg looking crap on SD channels and the TV having to react to source resolution changes. The Foxsat always has looked a bit soft on HDMI. If you have the Custom Firmware (And Nowsters Patch) and a DLNA server package then try streaming to another item. The pictures look a lot sharper when streamed to my G2 Humax HDR-1000S box.
     
  19. grahamlthompson

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    Humax boxes are odd in that they don't have a fixed level digital audio out and the default is about 50% of what you get from a box with a fixed level. On SD channels only the box remote control can vary the volume (mpeg 1 layer 2) but has no effect on AC3 from the HD channels. The level is hard coded in the data stream and what you get depends on whatever is decoding the audio. If vou are using a TV you might just as well tell the box to recode ac3 to MP2 (In the box TV setup digital audio out settings).
     
  20. pedro2000uk

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    I'm on a phone atm .. predictive text is getting worse. . That and a tiny keyboard & big fingers.
    Deep joy. Simple things amuse

     
  21. Paulct

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    I bought a Formuler F4 Turbo before Christmas and very happy with it. Working with an 80cm dish with triple lnbs and Disecq switches. Brings in 28.2/19.2/13 satellites + got Freesat EPG working with Cross EPG and Open Vix Enigma2. The total cost for Inverto dish all fittings and lnbs and receiver worked out at £130. Also handles IPTV and HEVC/H265.
    Bought few items from World Of Satellite and no complaints.
    Formuler F4 Turbo Linux Enigma 2 H.265 HEVC HD Satellite DVB-S/S2 Receiver - 2nd Spare Tuner Slot for Optional DVB-C/T2 Tuner
     
  22. pedro2000uk

    pedro2000uk
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    Unfortunately, we've seen a stream of either very basic or all singing, all dancing cheap boxes. You have to consider build quality & apart from first impressions, that usually means how they perform longer term than a few weeks. I've installed motorised to so many different satellite receivers, some cheaper boxes couldn't even drive motors for example, others that went dead after a time. Technomate has a well known high build quality history as have VU+ for it's E2 boxes. There's other good quality receivers & the best IMO is good quality at a good price, but only time will tell on newer, cheap boxes. From my point of view I have to make sure any equipment [receivers/ lnbs/ sat motors/ etc..] are reliable long term, .

    Being on those 3 satellites is better than just stuck on 28e but there's so many more satellites now & once you go down the multi lnb route, it gets more limiting very quickly &/or quite expensive & difficult to expand beyond that & can become quite frustrating when there's something on another satellite, especially a football match or new movies fta.
     
  23. Paulct

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    Time will tell I guess but been caught out with Technomate before with horrible TM800HD that even Technomate gave up on + had Technomate Twin OE with no front display cause by faulty Viper chips. As a 68 year old find I have now have plenty of choice from the main 3 sats that am using and with set up using can watch Freesat on one feed on old box while watching other sats on second feed. 2 Year warranty also on the Formuler receivers quoted. Prefer open source Enigma rather then being locked into manufacturers software support.
    All good fun though and keeps the brain busy.
     
  24. pedro2000uk

    pedro2000uk
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    Just to answer what you originally asked & the title of the thread as I think it got a little lost what you were asking..

    Basically, the 5402 m3 blows using the Foxsat HDR motorised satellite in non freesat mode out of the water. The Foxsat HDR's non Freesat mode is very awkward & limited to use as you've already started to discover even just on a fixed dish. It's nice that it's there but you can't edit or add satellites properly, it doesn't have a fully implemented motor software, it's very awkward to edit transponders, there's certainly no blind scan, editing channels is very sluggish, changing channels & satellites is odd & awkward.
    The experience can be fantastic on a 5402 m3 with a really good motorised sat system & decent channel.
     
  25. pedro2000uk

    pedro2000uk
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    You've been unlucky, that was a pre manufacture design fault though not a quality fault, one of the worst things that can happen to a manufacturer is a fault that gets through & you've had so many 1000s made, Samsung with that phone where the battery caught fire after all the success they'd had & took a massive hit, not slowed then down & to be fair, Technomate put their money where their mouth & turned their place in the E2 market back on track.

    I do a lot of installs for Enigma 2 / open source receivers, they are fantastic in so many ways & can look very polished with x skins & logos etc.. & should wipe the floor with the M3 but they don't in so many areas, actually using them on satellite & being intuitive & slick to use being the top 2.
    It annoys me that when Dream Media wrote the Enigma 2 system they should have spent another few months on it polishing it & making the structure more .. intuitive [or the industry should have, before nicking it & ported it to their boxes].
    You've got people who use one & can't stand the other or have & use both & I've seen lots with E2 not getting that much from them because of that E2 learning curve or have to rely on someone to keep them set up. It all comes down to having a system you really enjoy.
     
  26. GrahamWebb

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    Hi Thanks for the replies, it does sound like when I get a motorised dish I will want to get a technomate to start with rather than using the Foxsat for motorised. It will make sense to get the dish fitted and the receiver fitted at the same time. I was originally looking at motorised kits on ebay and doing it myself but I think to do it properly I will be looking at paying about £300 to have a 1m dish fitted high up on my south facing wall. I live on the south coast about 500m from the sea so will need something strong to cope with seagulls and the wind. As a kid in the 90s we had a Pace system and a great big motorised dish on the back of the house so am nostalgic to have one but I think in the day our one only ever moved between Astra and Hotbird.
     
  27. pedro2000uk

    pedro2000uk
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    You're right, avoid dish kits, they are usually sold what looks like cheap, but usually are 'cheap' or contain cheap but critical bits & useless brackets that can't be used & then are shipped in inadequate packing so they arrive damaged. I've been asked to install so many over the years & rarely do they make it unscathed, usually bent dented & distorted & cheap crap- I could write a book- just re-installed one for someone.

    Motorised satellite systems really need to be spot on all the way through from survey/ equipment choice & installation.
     
  28. GrahamWebb

    GrahamWebb
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    I fixed the 5.1 sound on the Foxsat BTW I had turned off the 5.1 sound output on the TV while fiddling around trying to get 5.1 to work and left it like that. I set Father Brown to record and it wasn't coming through in surround sound so looked to the settings.
     
  29. GrahamWebb

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    Interlace Lines Foxsat HDR Samsung UHD TV


    Here is what I mean by seeing Interlace lines during motion. Its hard to make it out because of youtube compression. But just flicking through the channel names I get the lines when the display changes quickly.
     
  30. GrahamWebb

    GrahamWebb
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    I think I might have fixed it now it was to do with Film Mode being set to on. I turned it off and don't think I am seeing them now.
     

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