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Technics / Panasonic CD player / One For All

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Control & Remote Controls' started by Darren Blake, Jun 24, 2003.

  1. Darren Blake

    Darren Blake
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    Hi.

    Done the search, beem to Remotecentral and HifiRemotes and still in the dark.

    My otherwise wonderful One For All Mosaic simply refuses to control my Technics HD51 CD player fully. The basic transport functions work, but most importantly NONE of the number keys are recognised which means I have had to use up a lot of memory learning them, plus many of the other functions (including power on/off).

    I have tried all the in built codes as well as downloading the new codes from OFA's website. I have tried using keymagic to enter the advanced codes from Hifiremotes.com, all to no avail.

    Can anyone help with this please?

    Regards,
     
  2. The Robman

    The Robman
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    It sound slike you found a setup code that works some functions, could you please post what that setup code is. Many of the newer audio setup codes don't support advanced codes, which might explain why they didn't work for you, but I won't know if that's what's happening till I know the setup code.
     
  3. Darren Blake

    Darren Blake
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    Hi Rob.

    The setup code I am using is 0303. This is one of the codes already in the Mosaic under both Technics and Panasonic. It operates play / stop / pause / track+ / track- / eject and that's about it. It does not operate power or the numeric keypad, although the default layout for that remote has a page of numeric keys, as does the original Technics remote.

    This is a mini "separates" system. Strangely, for the tape side of it, I found a code that operated all the tape transport keys "out of the box" but I do not know what it is at the moment.

    The numeric keypad doubles as the selector for CD tracks and preset radio stations. I have also tried to program the CD player using a tuner code as a basis but I still cannot find one that will recognise the numeric keys.

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. The Robman

    The Robman
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    CD/0303 uses the standard Panasonic signal, so it should accept advanced codes. I just checked a ccf file for an English Technics CD player, from Remote Central, and it uses exactly the same codes as the CD/0303 setup code, plus the codes for the numeric buttons match, so I'm at a loss as to why the numeric buttons in CD/0303 don't work your player.

    I'm attaching an Excel spreadsheet that lists out the functions for the CD/0303 setup code, in OBC (original button code) order. It also shows the advanced codes (ie, EFCs). I'm giving you this list so you can try out the other advanced codes to see if you can find the number buttons.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Darren Blake

    Darren Blake
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    Cheers, Rob.

    So when I use KeyMagic to program the extra keys in, do I use the OBC number or the EFC (advanced code) number?

    I was using the advanced codes last night, and I know I tried 117 for key "1" and it didn't work...
     
  6. The Robman

    The Robman
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    You use the EFC number (aka "advanced code"). The OBC numbers are just there for reference purposes.

    Here's the story. When the guys at Technics programmed the CD player and remote they were using the OBCs, which is why the functions line up somewhat sensibly when you look at them in OBC order.

    EFC codes are actually a scrambled version of the OBCs (I can tell you how to manipulate the binary if you're interested, nah, I thought not). UEI, the company who programs OFA remotes, deliberately made the EFC codes confusing in an attempt to conceal the true OBCs, presumably because they feared that their compeditors would somehow use this info to bring about their downfall. (UEI is a very paranoid company)

    You can test EFCs without actually programming them to a physical button. Just press and release the SETUP (aka, MAGIC) button, then type the 3 digit EFC code. If you hold the final digit, it will simulate holding the button.

    Just to make sure you are not making any mistakes in the way you test advanced codes, try testing a code that you know works, such as REWIND or FAST FORWARD.
     
  7. Darren Blake

    Darren Blake
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    Results!!! Not quite as simple as just typing in the advanced codes, though.

    First of all I verified that the advanced codes for the basic transport functions worked using setup code 0303. As I suspected they did. I then tried the codes for the number keys from Rob's spreadsheet. No luck. After trying a few codes at random, I eventually went through all the advaced codes from 001 to 255 and noted down what they did. Apart from the transport functions and maybe one or two others that were not on the spreadsheet, nothing worked.

    For some reason I decided to try a different setup code and after some searching I found that code 0518 (Panasonic tuner) operated the numeric keys on my Technics CD player. Hoo-rah!

    Even bigger hoo-rah: The advanced codes for 0518 are exactly the same as those for 0303, except these ones work with the exception of the basic transport functions.

    So I set up the tuner on my Mosaic and used KeyMagic to copy the advanced codes across to my CD panel, overwriting the learned numeric keys, power, etc. The beauty of the Mosaic is that although you have to initially set up the device that you want to use the advanced codes for, once you have transferred them onto your desired panel, you can delete it again.

    So I now have a hybrid 0303/0518 device that controls my CD player, without any learned keys!

    Many thanks, Rob. How the hell did we ever get along without the internet?:D
     
  8. The Robman

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    You're welcome, and I have NO idea!

    Jut FYI, if you ever go the JP1 route with this remote, we can build you a combo code that would have all the buttons included, which in turn would free up all that keymover memory you used up for macros or something.
     
  9. Darren Blake

    Darren Blake
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    This begs another few questions:

    1) Does programming with advanced codes and Key Magic take less memory than using learn?

    2) Is there a limit to the number of Key Magic keys, like there is with learned keys? I hit the limit on the learned keys when I still had 95% free memory on the device.

    Now I've done this with my CD player, I would like to reprogram all my other devices using advanced codes because it seems a bit less "messy" (just my funny little way :D )

    Not sure what it is you do with all these remotes, Rob, but it sounds like you understand their guts. I don't suppose you make a serial PC interface for the Mosaic, do you? I don't think OFA / UEI ever got around to making one...
     
  10. The Robman

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    Yes it does, but more importantly, it uses a different memory bank.

    There's three different memory banks in all of these remotes. The first is used for key moves, advanced codes and macros, the second is used for device upgrades and the third is used for learning. Each key move (or advanced code) takes up just 5 bytes (sometimes 6). Macros use 2 bytes for the header then an additional byte for each step. Learned signals take up about 30 or 40 bytes each.

    There is typically enough memory to learn about 24 buttons. The keymover/macro bank can hold about 45 keymoves without macros. If you have macros, you'll have less room for keymoves, and vice versa. (Although, I did hear that the Mosaic/Director has more memory than regular remotes, though I haven't confirmed this).

    Key moves are generally more reliable then learned signals. Think of key moves as being a digital copy and learned signals as an analog copy. However, when you program a remote without JP1, it's a good idea to balance the learned signals and the key moves, as they use different memory banks. Therefore you could run out of learning memory but still have loads of key move memory (or vice versa).

    If you have the memory available, it is a good idea to program functions as key moves whenever possible because sooner or later you will need the learning memory for an unsupported device.

    I do know their guts very well, but the Mosaic is the exception, because even though I have one, I know very little about it. It's design and construction is very different from regular OFA remotes. I don't know if it even has an EEPROM chip onboard. Everything that we do in the JP1 group boils down to reading and writing data to the EEPROM chip.

    I'm sure we could do something with the serial connection on the Mosaic, but as so few people bought them, there hasn't been a ground swell of need, so nobody's ever bothered.
     

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