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Technics launches Grand Class SL-1200GR Turntable

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by Stuart Wright, Jan 4, 2017.


    1. Mark Hodgkinson

      Mark Hodgkinson
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    2. BlueWizard

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      I hate to say what I'm about to say, but I just don't see how that turntable can be worth the price. Now don't get me wrong, this is still a good turntable, but the price is astronomical on the limited edition model, and near astronomical for the consumer model.

      I suspect Technics saw the price that used 1200/1210 turntables were selling for, which is 2 or 3 times the original price, and said, if they'll pay that for used, they'll pay anything we ask for new. And to some extent they are right. But there are many equivalent turntables for much less money that make much more sense.

      True the new Technics have nice material quality and they have made improvements on the old models, but not sufficient to justify the price. This is pure take whatever the market will bear. And there is a segment of the market that will indeed bare that price just to have the Brand Name, but I think the 'cool' factor is going to get pretty expensive.

      I notice this article does not mention the price.

      According the The Vinyl Factory, the price is listed at £3000 -

      Technics unveils new "standard" SL-1200GR turntable

      Though another article list this new consumer model at US$2000, or implies this price -

      The real Technics is dead (again)

      You can buy several of these for that same price -

      Audio Technica AT-LP1240-USB Turntable

      Stanton ST-150 Mk2 Turntable (Direct Drive, High Torque, Digital)

      Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable

      Technics makes a great classic turntable with brand recognition, but I think they have way over estimated what the market will bear. Still, more power to them if the market will bear that outrageous price.

      But then ... that's just my opinion. No doubt a good turntable though.

      Steve/bluewizard
       
    3. rorym

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      I agree, it's an odd product really, not one thing nor the other. A formerly mass market name at boutique brand prices.

      It's a turntable that started off at consumer level but was adopted by DJs before becoming pretty much standard. At that point it made a lot of sense, it was robust, well built, sounded good, affordable.

      This and last year's releases are now aimed at the audiophile with a lot of disposable income, and not the home or even pro DJ market, yet it still has pitch control which no serious audiophile is ever going to need, let alone touch.

      It's a shame as I was looking forward to these becoming affordable, having always wanted a 1200/1210. At this price point (assumed at £1500 as stated on What Hifi currently) they can keep it.
       
    4. BlueWizard

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      Also Direct Drive which is good for slipping and scratching, and very high torque motors for quick start and stop.

      For the price of one Technics 1200GR, you can have close to THREE Pioneer PLX-1000 turntables. The Pioneer is highly rated, very high torque motor that comes up to speed in a small fraction of a revolution.

      I still think they are basing the price off what USED Technics are selling for, but part of that price is the rarity. They haven't made these in Years, but once they are in production, the rarity ceases and the premium price goes with it. I would expect them to drop under £1000 within a couple of years, and potentially to drop into the mid 3-digits in time.

      They will capture some early adopters, but I don't see them being able to sustain that price.

      But again, that's just my opinion.

      Steve/bluewizard
       
    5. Jezza99

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      The quick start was a godsend for DJs, and the pitch control and being built like a tank made them invaluable for pro use. No one ever tried to lug around a couple of Linn Sondeks and a mixer, for obvious reasons.

      Yes, none of that applies for domestic use, and yes they are priced to cash in on their nostalgia status.

      But. Say what you like, these decks are a work of art, and worth it on those grounds alone.
       
    6. Ed Selley

      Ed Selley
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      Unless you see one in the metal and have a listen, it will never make sense. The new 1200s look like the older versions but they really have nothing in common. This is, in reality, the descendent of the SP10 produced as a single unit rather than as a platter/motor assembly as the original SP10 was. The Pioneer PLX-1000 looks very similar and has reasonably close start/stop and stability figures. The arm and noise floor of the 1200- even this base GR model, is going to be quite a bit better.
       
    7. BlueWizard

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      Ed Selley - Keep in mind no one is denying that this is a fantastic turntable with material and design improvements over the original. The problem isn't the turntable, it is the price.

      If you start looking around for what else you can get for that amount of money, there are some pretty sweet turntables out there, specifically made for Hi-Fi use, assuming that is how you intend to use them. Plus even this new lower price model seems a bit expensive for a DJ to be hauling around on the road. Though if the DJ is making enough money to justify it, more power to him.

      https://www.hifix.co.uk/turntables/...s/project-6-perspex-inc-9cc-evolution-tonearm

      Project 2 Xperience SB Turntable from HiFix

      https://www.hifix.co.uk/turntables/hi-fi-turntables/hifi-turntables/michell-gyrodec-se-turntable

      Clearaudio Concept Turntable MC Black from HiFix

      https://www.hifix.co.uk/turntables/hi-fi-turntables/hifi-turntables/michell-gyrodec-turntable

      https://www.hifix.co.uk/turntables/...turntables/rega-rp8-turntable-inc-ttpsu-black

      Obviously though these are not DJ Turntables.

      I acknowledge that the Technics are very good turntable with improvements, I'm just not convinced that price is justified, and I expect that price to be substantially lower in a year or two.

      If you are not pressed to buy, better to wait and get it for a more reasonable price .... in my opinion.

      Steve/bluewizard
       
      Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
    8. Stinger69

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      If the last model is anything to go by, it came out in limited numbers and sold out rather quickly. The same will probably happen again. If you look at the figures for wow and flutter/rumble etc, the Hanpin clones don't even come close.
       
    9. Jezza99

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      The most interesting thing for me about this deck, is that back in the day, it was in no way even considered an "audiophile" deck. The hifi snobs at the time were extremely sniffy about anything direct drive, they were beyond the pale. You either had a Linn if you had a few quid, or a Rega Planar if you didn't. The Technics SL1200 was considered very much a DJ deck, built to do a job, not to sound good.
      That was unfair even then, and today's improved models are very up there, although I would agree that in terms of sound per pound, you can do better elsewhere. But you won't own a design icon and a work of art.
       
    10. Stinger69

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      I worked in a hi fi store back in the 80s and we sold a lot of the popular "audiophile" decks of the time. The AR turntable, Thorens, Duals, Ariston etc. We all laughed at the massive build quality gap between the Technics and the others. It made them look as though they were designed in a different century! The complete silence of the motor was an ear opener for many, and although I owned at one time or another, all of the above decks, it's the Technics that I enjoyed using and listening to the most. The trouble was, with publications like "HiFi Answers" being the word of God at the time, the audiophiles wouldn't even listen to them. Those that knew though, lapped them up. We never had enough stock for the demand, and the buyers were certainly not all djs, just those with an open mind who could listen for themselves.
       
    11. Mark.Yudkin

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      This is simply not true (and if your Avatar is your photo, your should be quite able to recall that DD was very much at the forefront of audiophile choice.

      Ivor Tiefenbrun is reported to have said:
      ...
       
    12. Jezza99

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      My avatar is not my photo, as I suspect you know ! While you are entitled to your opinion, I would refer you to post #10 from Stinger69. The contemporary audiophile opinion of the original SL1200 era (which I do recall very well) was entirely belt drive biased - Linn , Thorens, Rega, Dual etc. I still have my (budget option) Dual CS506 from the early 80's.

      I would politely suggest you do some more research.
       
    13. Arcam_boy

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      Well said 'Albert' :laugh:
       
    14. BlueWizard

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      I would suspect those turntable back when they were new, were about $250 to $300, keep in mind that the last 1200 rolled off the assembly line in 2010. Today, that same turntable can sell for $1000 or more.

      And there was a degree of bias. Many said that the motor and bearing noise of a Direct Drive was noticeable. I suspect if you were stoned enough that might be true. But I had a roommate who had a Technics 1200, and it sounded fine. Absolutely nothing to complain about. I believe at the same time I had a Pioneer PL35A. As much as I like my turntable (still going strong) I would say the Technics was better in general quality.

      But the market for used, and in my opinion, the market for new is inflated beyond reason.

      Today, there are many fine turntables in the £300 to £500, and even nicer in the £1000 range. I'm just not sure why I would by a Technics for £1500 to £2000?

      Now if they were down in the £1000 range or less, I might be tempted simply for nostalgia. But there are too many other very fine turntable in that price range.

      Stereophile Reviewed the Pioneer PLX-1000 and gave it a top review -high torque motor, and generally flawless in its price class. It many not equal the Technics, but it is less than half the price.

      "Belts can't touch the PLX-1000's excitement, naturally formed detail, and clearly expressed forward momentum," he wrote. "This new Pioneer also showcases the complex tonal character and elegant structures of classical music better than any affordable belt-drive I've experienced."

      PLX-1000, whose motor has more than twice the torque of its famous forebear, "is not only a worthy successor to the legendary Technics SL-1200 Mk.2, it is a serious contender for the best audiophile-grade turntable for less than $2000. Unabashedly recommended."


      Stereophile 2016 - Recommended Component

      So, this is no crap turntable.

      If I need a £700 DJ style turntable, I'll buy the Pioneer. And if I'm willing to spend £1500 to £2000 on a Hi-Fi turntable, I'm probably not going to buy a Technics. However, I have no quarrel with those who do. I just, personally, don't see the value.

      Also, keep in mind, as I have said before, I'm not saying this is not a good turntable. I'm sure it is great. I just question the price. Technics does carry a mystic, and for those enthralled by it, it might be worth the money.

      Steve/bluewizard
       
      Last edited: Jan 9, 2017
    15. Jezza99

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      If you have to ask......;)
       
    16. BlueWizard

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      Can't argue with that. Also keep in mind that I only speak for myself. If anyone wants to buy this turntable, more power to them. It is certainly attractive, and will probably perform to a very high standard. But I personally can't see past the price.

      Now perhaps as more people get this turntable and comment on it, and as more Stereo Mags review it, it might turn out to be well worth the considerable money. However, for the moment, I can only have distant impressions.

      Steve/bluewizard
       
    17. Mark.Yudkin

      Mark.Yudkin
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      And I would politely suggest that you too might like to read post #10 - a reminiscence on the superior quality of the Technics versus "AR, Thorens, Duals, Ariston etc." and his customers' recognition of that "common knowledge".

      I still have a Technics DD TT, as well as having watched Steptoe and Son in my youth.
       
    18. Mark.Yudkin

      Mark.Yudkin
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      Then I guess you won't be looking at a Clearaudio Innovation (Clearaudio | High End), let alone one of their more advanced linear tracking models.
       
    19. Jezza99

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      I'm really not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse? :rolleyes:

      The point he was making, was that the vast majority of people at the time who considered themselves "audiophiles", would not not even entertain listening to a DD deck, it was only a few people who were willing to look beyond the HiFi Answers world view. ie a minority.

      My point was exactly the same, ie that the "received wisdom" of the time was belt good, DD bad. I was not supporting that as true, merely acknowledging that was the majority viewpoint.

      If you are trying to portray yourself as some sort of visionary who was ahead of the curve, then if that makes you feel good, knock yourself out. It still doesn't alter my original point that the contemporary received wisdom was that DD decks were not something that a serious audiophile would own.
       
    20. Jezza99

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      No, I get that. It's a bit like Apple worship, where people are willing to pay a premium for owning a "lifestyle icon", rather than just a phone or a tablet. Personally, I can't stand Apple and wouldn't pay a premium for one of their products, but respect the right of people to do so.
       
    21. 1000 Cutts

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      I owned a few turntables back in the day and still morn my 1200's I sold in 2007 for £350 ( for 2!!!!!). The 1200 is simply a thing of absolute beauty, the build quality is simply outstanding and sound great. The DJ community does not like the PLX. Interestingly Denon DJ has just announced new turntables..not sure on price but maybe see a gap in market given the outrageous price of the new Technics..
       
    22. BlueWizard

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      I don't respect them, but I accept them. To each his own.

      :)

      Steve/bluewizard
       
    23. BlueWizard

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      Denon VL12 Turntable - £500 -

      Denon VL12 Turntable

      The New Denon DJ VL12 DJ Turntable is a completely fresh design. Showcased at the NAMM 2016 trade show.

      Though price can vary greatly -

      DJ Turntables @ The DJ Hookup

      DJs aren't interested in Pioneer? Funny because all the places specializing in DJ equipment are selling them -

      DJ Decks (Turntables)

      DJ Turntables @ The DJ Hookup

      Pioneer DJ DJ Decks, DJ Turntables and Vinyl Turntables

      In fact pretty much ONLY DJ Equipment sources are selling them.

      Technics Decks - (£2999 and £1300) -

      Technics DJ Decks, DJ Turntables and Vinyl Turntables

      Steve/bluewizards
       
      Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    24. Mark.Yudkin

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      I find it amazing how two people can read the same post (#10) and draw the completely opposite conclusion from the same text, and then argue that the other person doesn't understand what was written. What would be really nice is if Stinger69 could clarify whether he was saying that the Technics was much better (my understanding of post #10) or much worse (my understanding of your post #19 explain post #10).

      I was not a visionary, as an LP collector I was convinced by the Technics DD technology, as were the shops selling these TTs like hot cakes that I visited in the '70s. Then again, the "audiophiles" also slammed CD when it came out in 1983, whilst the rest of us just migrated to it as our primary physical carrier.

      You can of course equally legitimately claim (paraphrased) that "that the contemporary received wisdom was that CD was not something that a serious audiophile would own", and you'd be right in the sense that it was /is true. But everybody bought it in place of LP's anyway. Heck, "contemporary audiophile wisdom" vociferously supports the view that ludicrously priced copper performs wonders (effected by some miraculous property of the price tag and some secret formula). Does that make it true? Of course not, but just look at these forums if you need evidence.

      The well-implemented Linn LP12 sort of "turned the tables", and of course the additional expense of the implementing DD technology naturally pushed it into higher price brackets.
       
      Last edited: Jan 11, 2017 at 9:43 AM
    25. Jezza99

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      I find it amazing that you could read this whole thread, and somehow come to the conclusion that I am negative on the Technics. or that I have claimed that stinger69 was; quite the contrary :facepalm::facepalm:

      Both of us were clearly saying that the Technics was not considered an "audiophile" deck back in the day by the HiFi press, but that nonetheless, a few people at the time ignored this received wisdom. and bought the Technics because it was a good deck, regardless of the reviews etc.

      If this isn't clear enough for you, I will arrange a translation into Swahili for you.:p
       
    26. Mark.Yudkin

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      I think it's the Cockney accent that goes with Albert, rather than the post's not being in Swahili, that causes our mutual differences of understanding (you have obviously also failed to understand what I've written). :(
       
    27. Jezza99

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      I can assure you that I am entirely clear on what you have written, and I am also entirely clear that you have somehow got hold of the wrong end of the stick - you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.:facepalm:

      Lets's just agree to disagree, rather than disintegrate into a bicker fest. The irony is that we are both on the same page as to the desirability and positive capabilities of the SL1200, so let's leave it there.
       
    28. MarkyPancake

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      I was a DJ in my teens and had a pair of 1210s, but as time went by and as I was playing in public quite regularly I found myself using them less and less at home, then when DVD came along I decided I wanted to get into home theatre, so sold the Technics to create room and raise fund towards a flat screen TV, DVD player, and 5.1 set up.

      I'm not one for regrets, but I wish I never sold my 1210s now. I want a pair of old school 1200s, but finding good ones at a reasonable price is tricky.
       
    29. Stinger69

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      I was just saying that I considered the SL1200 to be quite superb, but the customers that had been fully brainwashed by the cult of "Hifi Answers" wouldn't even consider it. We sold plenty to enthusiasts that thought for themselves though.
       
    30. Jezza99

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      Yeah thanks stinger, that was my understanding of what you said (and agreed with), not sure why it got lost in translation somewhere :confused:
       

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