Teachers should avoid calling pupils "clever"

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Nick_UK, Aug 3, 2006.

  1. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Teachers should stop calling bright pupils "clever" for fear they might not be thought "cool" by classmates, a union is expected to be told.
    Instead they should refer to academic high-achievers as "successful", the Professional Association of Teachers' (PAT) conference in Oxford will hear.

    Simon Smith, a teacher from Essex, will say it is important to avoid a culture which "mocks being clever".

    A government spokesman said it was "not the brightest idea we have heard".


    At least he didn't say it wasn't the cleverest thing he'd heard :rolleyes:

    Whatever next ? Why should teachers pander to stupid youth culture ? How about instilling proper values instead ? Or is that not "cool" ? :rolleyes:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/5241524.stm
     
  2. shahedz

    shahedz
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    reminds me of when i had to do textiles, and i made a nice cushion, the teacher held it up so the rest of the students could "admire " the good workd i had done in textiles- no lasting damage :D
     
  3. HMHB

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    To quote John Lennon:-
    "They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool"
    I think it's always been the case and it doesn't seem to have harmed people calling them clever does it ?
     
  4. krish

    krish
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    The PAT seem just a little odd... I thought most teachers were part of NUT or NASUWT

    This was just a motion by one person... however ...Last year, the PAT voted to replace the word "failure" with "deferred success".

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  5. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    They could ,of course ,be clever with their hands showing great aptitude for mechanics or other vocational practices
     
  6. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Sounds like someone has been attending too many pyramid selling meetings :D
     
  7. shahedz

    shahedz
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    what? what has that got to do with calling a student "clever"?
     
  8. Ethics Gradient

    Ethics Gradient
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    ego cavo ergo sum

    .... not trying to shore up your own ego there are you ;)
     
  9. waf-tastic

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    In my day you were clever if you got A's at school - that must mean most children must fear looking uncool now ;)
     
  10. Pat_C

    Pat_C
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    I propose we replace the word "teacher" with "people who disregard the fundamental problems with the education system and waste their time on pointless trivia"

    The whole idea of failure equating to deferred succcess is clearly nonsense anyway, as it turns an evaluation into an optimistic and irrational prediction. Do we also now call non-attendance "to arrive at some future point"?

    As for the original point, I really don't know why we need a term for teachers to describe academic high achievers. Don't their marks and exam results provide all the necessary feedback?

    No wonder we're turning out so many school leavers that are at best semi-literate.
     
  11. Steven

    Steven
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    I think it's just the teachers of the PAT who are out of touch and increasingly willing to jump on the PC bandwagon

    Children have always decided for themselves what is cool long before they go into the classroom. Certainly don't need the thought police telling them how to think

    Let's be honest - every child know whether they're clever, middle or stupid. There I said it. They don't need patronising. And I don't get the pandering to chavs :confused:

    P.S. The PAT are the smaller/smallest teachers union? Just saying as Manchester schools don't seem to go with their nonsense
     
  12. waf-tastic

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    It depends on the pass rates - there seem to be an awful lot of people getting A/A* grades which used to be used to be a guide to the top pupils...
     
  13. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Not necessarily. My wife thought she was stupid when she was quite young. Later she was diagnosed with mild epilepsy, and she went on to get better qualifications than me.
     
  14. Steven

    Steven
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    Yes yes, I get other reasons, but go with it for arguments sake. Kids don't need patronising and have subtle language changes to avoid hurting their feelings

    Anyway, imo nothing wrong with some friendly teasing then outside for football afterwards. It's when it turns to bullying that's the problem...
     
  15. Reign-Mack

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    This is almost as stupid as teachers not being allowed to call the Black Board a Black Board...
     
  16. Pat_C

    Pat_C
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    Only up to a point. Being relative terms, it is necessary for them to be defined within an objective, meaningful context. It has to be constructive too, to avoid low achievement becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.
     
  17. Reign-Mack

    Reign-Mack
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    but everybody gets an A now...:boring:
     
  18. Pat_C

    Pat_C
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    I think that getting an A is still a good indication of above average performance, although I accept not to the extent that it used to be. I assume that some teachers still add appropriate remarks for particularly good or poor work though, and that can be equally valuable feedback.
     
  19. Pat_C

    Pat_C
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    I'm a bit out of touch with the latest PC terms. Is a blackboard now a 'low reflectance illustration platform'? :)
     
  20. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    No, they use whiteboards now, which is a perfectly acceptable term ;)
     
  21. dakara

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    So what are you saying? That White Boards are better than Black Boards?
    Careful, you'll be accused of prejudice by the Information Board Equal Rights Board just now. :spam:
     
  22. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    No, but it appears that the term White Board is perfectly acceptable, but Black Board isn't.
     
  23. Setenza

    Setenza
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    I find it so bizarre that elements of society from specific social economic groups seems to consider, intelligence, the pursuit of an education, academia, and knowledge in general as being "uncool" or something to deride. It's staggering.

    Educational has always been a political tool that has been used by governments and regimes to control and even subjugate a society.

    We now live in a age and country where everyone has access to free education which broadly equips you with basic skills. Sure it's not ideal and in some areas it's a mess, but compared to the developing world or areas with particular religious persuasions, it's a godsend!

    I don't like the word stupid too much. It often gets used in as an oppressive label and I'm not too keen on them. I prefer the term ignorant. It is a logical phrase. I am very ignorant on advanced quantuum physics. However, I can go to the library and pick up a book and start to familiarise myself with the basic concepts. Ignornace is a non-judgemental description that decribes a condition that can be rectified.

    What we have now is a growing youth culture (again only in specific social groups etc.etc.) that openly choose's to be ignorant. It is perceived to be even a badge of achievement.

    I can remember Victoria Beckham recently almost proudly proclaiming that she'd never read a book. I interpretted her statement in this way. " I choose not to expand my knowledge of life and the world that I live in".

    I remember what Comedian Chris Rock said about this issue in relation to American black youths choice to refute education. "I don't know that sh*t (in response to the question, what is the capital of Zaire), I'm keeping it real". "Yes (says Chris), real dumb".

    Rant over.
     
  24. Confucius

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    Yeah, I know of a lot of people who's success has been deferred a fricking lifetime.
     
  25. krish

    krish
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    Yup, good old Dubya himself as regards everything he's ever done ;)
     
  26. Member 55145

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    Forget WW3, sterility, an outbreak or asteroid hit wiping out the human race. It will be offspring that has been wrapped in cotton blankets for 18years that cant cope and commit suicide the first time they get rejected in the real world

    The end of the world is nigh!
     
  27. Carl Stock

    Carl Stock
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    Ah, but they are many electronic white boards in schools now! :)

    Perhaps we should take out the “white” bit now! ;)
     
  28. Kazuya Mishima

    Kazuya Mishima
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    When I am writing reports I do tend to avoid words like 'clever' - because I don't think it's very informative. Just being used on its own, the term doesn't really help pupils or parents to understand what exactly their skills and aptitudes are, and gives no indication of how to improve.

    So maybe banning the word 'clever' for the reasons given seems OTT, but I don't think it should be getting used anyway.

    If you received a report for your child which said "Kazuya is a clever boy", you would probably be pleased but perhaps a bit dissatisfied, because you would want to know (A) where he stands in relation to exam performance criteria and (B) how he improves to achieve the best performance possible.

    And an earlier poster referred to the size of PAT - indeed, they are one of, if not the, lowest memberships. They are also known for their policy of not striking (which is in contrast to most other workers' unions).
     
  29. Carl Stock

    Carl Stock
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    It is funny you should mention this, because no report that I have seen a teacher write (I have been involved for many years with the secondary school I attended as a pupil) has ever used the word “clever”. I do not believe that word has even left a teacher's mouth – it's just not a word to use.

    Words that have tended to be used are “conscientious”, “diligent” and “hard working”.

    Oh wait – those words were in my school reports! :D Hey! Stop throwing things at me, you lot, and calling me a teacher's pet!!! ;)

    No, seriously – the words above has tended to be used in reports I have seen in recent years.
     
  30. krish

    krish
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    Most school reports I received were absolute crap, written lazily - my teachers apart from one or two exceptions clearly paid no attention to my academic development - with standard comments year after year of 'easily distracted' and 'could do better' but no praise or constructive criticism. They were slightly better at Parents' Evenings, but my parents also thought they talked nonsense with nothing of substance to say. My end of year exam results however painted a very different picture, as I ended up in the top group for all my subjects, and my O Level and GCSE results of '88 proved that I was "successful" ;)
     

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