Tannoy F4...........To fill or not to fill

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by k13 wjd, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. k13 wjd

    k13 wjd
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    Complete random one here....

    I met a guy today, and after a quick chat, i quickly uncovered he was a bit of a audiophile.......and, he had the same front speakers as me....The Tannoy Mercury F4 Custom floorstanders.....


    Now, after speaking about how good his were, and how cheap mine were.......He told me that he put 5 Kilo's of oven dried sand in them...through the port....


    Now, not wanting to look like a retard, nor wanting to call the guy a silly bugger.......I just went along with it...


    so the question is.......are the F4 floorstanders open to sand filling ?
     
  2. Member 96948

    Member 96948
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    The idea of sand filling is to increase the weight and lower the centre of gravity of the speaker which makes it more stable.

    This, in theory, improves transient response and dynamic attack as the cabinet is less prone to moving in reaction to the drivers. In practice, there are normally far greater improvements to be made elsewhere through refining system setup and positioning, although having speakers less prone to being knocked over has its obvious attractions.

    An interesting point that never seems to get addressed by 'the sand fillers' is are they hearing the improvements they actually think they are? They will attribute the improved 'attack' and 'tightness' to greater stability, but forget that by reducing the cabinet's volume by approximately 2.5L (in the case of 5kg of sand), they also raise the resonant frequency of the system, thus leaning off the deep bass response. Less bass is often equated to a 'faster', 'tighter' bass, which is not actually the same thing, but if less bass reduces a room/positioning related issue, then they're attributing the improvements to incorrect reasoning.

    By all means try it, but I would put the sand into balloons to make them easier to extract later. If a speaker were to find itself on it's side with loose sand inside, it wouldn't be ideal if the sand were to find it's way to the moving parts, so its an added safety feature.

    Russell
     
  3. Badger0-0

    Badger0-0
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    I've always wondered what the reasoning is for this and came to the same conclusion.
    Slow flabby sound, add sand = make the box smaller, hence increasing speed but killing the bass.
    People who see the gain in that would just do better going to smaller speakers, imo, or as Russ says look at positioning etc
     
  4. William YZF-R1

    William YZF-R1
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    Well I have already hung my subwoofer from the ceiling ;) but I think I will refrain from adding sand to the F4's.

    They sound good enough to me as they are, and seem pretty stable. :hiya:
     
  5. k13 wjd

    k13 wjd
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    :hiya:stable.......thats all relevent to where you put them, and what you put them on.....everything is stable, so long as nothing touches it.......stuff doesnt just fall over by itself.....it usually required a small child aged between one and about twenty five.

    2 of mine are next to tv...on spikes/cups/laminate.
    the other 2 are within child distance, and are also on spikes/cups/laminate............they are fairly stable....but still most of the weight is up top.....

    to clear up, i wasnt ACTAULLY considering doing it....i was just asking about the technicals of it.........lots of answers.....

    I know what your saying about dropping the volume of the box...im fairly sure tannoy would have mentioned it if the cabinets were designed to be filled with sand.

    I would love to see a full diagram of the internals of the F4...the port seems equally spaced between the lower driver, and the bottom of the cabinet - empty space....or fancy woodwork ?


    On to the bike man( william ).......glad to hear you hung your subwoofer from the roof.......Sound any better ? ha ha ha:hiya::hiya::clap::clap::clap::clap::hiya::hiya:

    Can i ask a favour of you........if i send you a track, can you run it for me...and let me know what you get....its MR APPLEHEADS LF test track.......its like musical chairs.....you wait till the music stops, and read the seconds remaining to give you a reading in HZ...............i can't get over my results, so i'd like you to try it !
     
  6. bohane

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    acoustic energy speakers (the ones i have owned) come with a completely seperate chamber for 'mass loading' so this in no way reduces the size/volume of the cabinet. i have always mass loaded mine if i can, my old ruark templars were 'mass loadable but had no chamber to seperate the sand from the inside of the speaker.

    im not sure if its made a massive difference because i did it when my speakers were fairly new, so it could be that they have just run in a bit more, but it does make them more stable and with 6 kids and four staffordshire bull terriers on the loose that cant be a bad thing :rotfl:

    andy

    EDIT.... whats all this sub hanging from the ceilng lark then????? has the world gone nuts? i know the 'better' (so she thinks) half would kill me if she came home and we had a 200w lampshade :rotfl:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009
  7. William YZF-R1

    William YZF-R1
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    I'm up for most things, after all I ride an R1.:cool:
     
  8. k13 wjd

    k13 wjd
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  9. William YZF-R1

    William YZF-R1
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  10. ARNOLD AKIEN

    ARNOLD AKIEN
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    I've just replied to a post on another thread and so to save wear and tear on my typing fingers I'll copy the post to here and replace the links .....

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/speakers/934182-speaker-ballast-advice.html


    " Re: Speaker ballast advice

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kempez
    lol I was planning to buy kiln dried stuff



    Don't do it!! Fill with sand that is! Horrible stuff .. very hard to get rid of if you decide that you don't like the effect that it produces.

    The thing to use is THIS STUFF .. 'Atacama Atabites ' ...note theres a video clip in the link which follows ....

    " Dennis Greenaway, UK Sales Manager for Atacama, shows us the remarkable Atabites metal filing ëfiller', which can be used to fill speaker stands and thereby deaden sound and reduce resonation. You can actually tune your speakers by varying the amount of filler used. Tests have shown Atabites to be much more effective than sand. Talking of sand, Atacama take their name from the desert of the same name in Chile, purportedly the driest in the world. We'll drink to that! "

    Atacama show us Atabites and talk to us about deserts! (What Hifi Stuff Show 2006)


    The lowest price from a web supplier that I could find is here ...


    Atacama Audio Atabites Accessory - Buy from Digital Direct

    " Description .. High density filler designed for mass loading of speaker stands. Delta shaped chips which interlock together creating minimum air gaps. Supplied in 9kg (20lbs) tubs. ...... £13.96 GREAT DEAL "

    I researched this when I considered buying speakers that had the option of mass loading but eventually bought B and W 704s which don't use it.

    All that time and effort drying sand!! This stuff is much better and can be removed if it doesn't produce a pleasing effect. "

    I hope that this helps.

    Arnold.
     
  11. yetanotherbob

    yetanotherbob
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    Had a half eaten cake and 3 toy cars popped into the port of an RS6 once,

    Didn't tighten the bass one bit IMO :D

    Bob
     
  12. k13 wjd

    k13 wjd
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    quality. thankfully i dont have kids.....so no need to worry about lego ending up in my speakers.
     
  13. bohane

    bohane
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    well in the case of acoustic energy speakers that have a sepeate chamber for 'mass loading' its just for extra weight and stability, so it wouldnt matter how much you put in it wouldnt be able to 'tune' the sound of the speaker as such, as it would make no difference to the size of the enclosure. it would just make the speaker more stable and ths is meant to enhance the bass response, not to 'tune the speakers'

    also the sand used for this is called 'kiln dried sand' so that means no drying sand out as its already done for you before you buy it. it costs around a fiver for a bag, and does the intended job very well. i placed some freezer bags in the chamber and then filled them with the sand through a funnel, if i want to remove it (which i dont) i will just un-tie the knot is the bag (which is in the opening of the chamber just behind the plug) and empty the sand out, no drama.

    i have used the iron fillings before in my aegis evo 3's and i dont think it makes a huge differnce, in fact im going to empty out the evos and try it in my newer neos and see if there is any difference between the 'atabites' and kiln dried sand, as i dont think there will be any ;)

    andy
     
  14. leedswillprevai

    leedswillprevai
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    I just did so with my AE Neo 3's and I really regret doing it, it seems to have killed a lot of the bass and what's worse is once you put the plug in, you can't get the plug out again, so I am stuck with the sound now.
     

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