Taming a dip?

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by TopMeTom, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    Ello!

    After playing around with ARC on my anthem yesterday, it appears i have a dip at 30hz in my room. Having checked my old charts t has always been there, just wondering as the sub is pretty much in the best place in the room how/if i can tame it? Would a antimode help? Or maybe another sub?

    I have attached a graph that arc produced for your perusal!

    image-1407427172.jpg
     
  2. Crustyloafer

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    Looking at those graphs, you actually have a big peak at 30Hz and a dip at 40Hz.
     
  3. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    Thanks Chris. Unsure what to do now....guy over on avs has suggested plugging the port? Would that make any sense?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  4. Member 639844

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    Why on earth is ARC showing the subs response on a graph going all the way upto 20k :confused:

    As stated though, you look to have more issues with peaks. Fix those and the dip will be much reduced. You can really do a lot about proper dips with only one sub other than trying to move it about. I would have thought ARC would have sorted the peaks though. FWIW, you cant and dont tame dips, only peaks :smashin:
     
  5. Crustyloafer

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    These PBK results would seem to suggest otherwise:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Even looking at the ARC results Phil has posted, the green line which is the calculated result after calibration shows that most of the big swings in the subwoofer's response below 100Hz have been evened out anyway.

    Cheers,

    Chris.
     
  6. Member 639844

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    You kinda missed my point. Dips are not an excited part of the response, they are nulls or phase cancellations. You only tame the wild parts, which are the excited peaks, the dips are another issue that if you 'tamed' them further would only get deeper.

    Probably just me being pedantic.

    I am still disappointed however that ARC has been set to show the sub channel on a graph that size, it really should only need to go as high as 200 hz, or 500 at the very most. Going to 20k only makes it more difficult to see the response clearly, and there isnt really a good reason to do that unless your trying to hide details, kinda like the AS EQ-1 with its super smoothed graph.
     
  7. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    You can show the graphs so they only show up to a certain level i just have not set it
     
  8. Member 639844

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    Ah thats good then, and would explain CrustyLoafers graphs :thumbsup:
     
  9. Crustyloafer

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    Here are some examples of the ARC results on the subwoofer channel. The first picture shows the full range results and the second is the same but zoomed into 100Hz and below.

    ARC Result 1-1

    [​IMG]

    ARC Result 1-2

    [​IMG]

    ARC Result 2-1

    [​IMG]

    ARC Result 2-2

    [​IMG]

    ARC result 3-1

    [​IMG]

    ARC Result 3-2

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  10. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    I saw a pb13 ultra for sale, as its ported i dont suppose it would help at all?
     
  11. Crustyloafer

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    You would probably have to buy it blind then hope that it would fix your problem.
     
  12. TopMeTom

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    Thats the only problem i guess, being blind in all this! I need a loaner sub
     
  13. Crustyloafer

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    That is something a dealer can provide but you are going to have to pry yourself away from the direct sales brands such as BK and SVS if you want that level or service and the ability to try before you buy.

    I have given you various suggestions for suitable subwoofers and home loans of any of them would be available, although not necessarily at the prices offered to you via PM earlier.
     
  14. TopMeTom

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    I do appreciate all that Chris. Unfortunately i dont have sub15 money right now! I wish i did!!

    I'm trying to understand what to do about the dip i.e could it be cos the monolith is ported? I have never had such a program that shows you exactly what is happening in the room, its even made me question my column surrounds!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  15. Member 639844

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    The response graphs are showing you the effects of the room, not the subwoofer. As such, another sub placed in the identical position your is now would likely show a very similar response. This isnt a function of the type of sub, its a function of the room. All you need to do to change the response is move either the sub or the listening position. How it will change is unknown until you move it then measure again.

    By the way, you can buy any internet product on a 30 day return no problem at all. You dont get a free home demo, but then many dealers wouldnt give you this anyway. If your trying to replace a Monolith, a sub15 is probably what you would need to step upto. The SVS PB13U is a good sub, but not to everyones liking once they live with it, so dont just take its impressive performance to deliver everything your looking for.

    If money is tight, you could also consider trying to take things into your own hands. For Sub15 money you could have a dual driver sealed 18 with eq included and still have a nice chunk of change.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2012
  16. TopMeTom

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    The ultra wont fit anyhoo.....
     
  17. Member 639844

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    Then why ask about it :confused:
     
  18. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    I had not measured the depth properly till i got home!
     
  19. Rob.Screene

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    How about adjusting the sub distance a little to see if it's a phase ( timing) issue with integration with the main speakers?

    The sms-1 outlaw cookbook mentions this if i recall.

    Rob.
     
  20. Member 639844

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    Ah fair enough, my bad.

    The distance setting can help, but ideally you need to see what changes are doing what with REW or you will find it hard to keep track of whats going on.
     
  21. Rock Danger

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    I took my first reading of my paradigm sub 15 today, which really is impressive - I dropped it in the bay window part of the room, side firing 45 degrees tilted across / away from the front sound stage and got this wee graph.

    If I read it right it seems to have done well? And was fairly good to start with?

    Thoughts?

    PS:Had to run the pbk software in vista compatibility mode before it would fire the test tones was using win7 64bit.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  22. Member 639844

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    All in all looks pretty good. The dip has been dealt with nicely and luckily it was in the upper range where is easier to boost out. You should be pretty happy with that :thumbsup:

    Time to sit back and enjoy :smashin:
     
  23. Rock Danger

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    Yeah cheers, I was interested in your opinion actually just to reassure my own. I still have to let it run in for a few days then do a more comprehensive test, but it looks like the basics are pretty good. :smashin:

    It's such a good sub, it just runs off the fronts almost seamlessly and only kicks out the actual sub bass and not just boosting what the tops handle. :thumbsup:
     
  24. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    :eek::eek:Sub 15!!!:eek:

    I would love to hear that beast! Any pix?
     
  25. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    Blimey, wonder the shop dont break!
     
  26. Rock Danger

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    Just the one, with the cover off, was snatched with my phone just for FB bragging. I don't want to lush over how amazing it is but that I can tell you that in the first 15 mins of using it and before calibrating it, it cleared the soundstage up completely - it now let's me hear how good or bad the rest of my speakers are if that makes sense?

    What crustyloafer and moonfly are saying is pretty bang on and good subs cost money. I've heard the sub 10 which is also excellent, I took the 15 just for extra evil. You already have a good amp, you may as well attach something good to it?

    If you ever have the unfortunate pleasure of being on this island you're very welcome to come have your internal organs liquefied:smashin:.
     

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  27. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    Cor what a beauty!

    What other speakers you use mate?
     
  28. Member 639844

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    I think thats a property unique to high end sealed subs. Sealed sub in general are more accurate and integrate better IME, but to get decent low end grunt as well you have to go high end and they do cost a lot. I think its worth it though, I have yet to hear anything that might change that opinion and your remarks simply serve to further back that up. In fact, to date, I have heard only one person in the UK say that they prefer the ported output over the sealed sound.
     
  29. Rock Danger

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    It's in my sig, soon to be changed to KEF Referrence 205/2 & 202/2 at the front.
     
  30. Avi

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    Has anyone used independent RTA to measure the before/after affect of ARC ?
     

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