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TAG Silver Finish Inconsistency

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by Tantalus, Oct 16, 2003.

  1. Tantalus

    Tantalus
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    I have to say something that really does grate me. I have all three TAG components which are all (give or take) 6 months age of each other.

    NONE OF THEM MATCH.

    Udo once passed this off as "similar to the paint for a car" but I'm sorry Dr. Z, I don't buy it.

    Nine grands worth of kit ought to look the same.

    Meridian do it.

    Arcam do it.

    Lexicon do it.

    So why can't TAG do it?

    Basically, they messed up with the scratch-attracting gloss finish. It must have taken several iterations to get to the new matt finish. But at who's expense?

    It's how it sounds, I know. And it sounds fantastic.

    But a company who pride themselves so much on the aesthetic appeal, I would have expected better.

    You don't buy a Porsche and have one wing a different colour. After a respray I would expect it to be the same.

    :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
     
  2. cskates

    cskates
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    Tag can change the faceplates old->new or new->old, but it's not cheap (neither is a Porche respray! ;) ). A cheaper option is to leave the DVD player on show and hide the other components, the Tag bus will relay any remote commands.

    The black finish is consistant, even seperated by 3 years. Minor differences are that the buttons are shinier (new is more silvery than the older grey) and my old AV32R and 100x5R have the old "F3" badge.
     
  3. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Have to agree with that,Tantalus....the finish should be identical,as to use Dr Z's analogy of car plants,they can turn out tons of identical,colour matched vehicles without problems.
     
  4. scarty16

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    if spraying cars to get the colour right is so easy how come you can always tell when a car has had a re-spray?
     
  5. sijones

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    Tantalus,

    You seem just like the guy who used to complain a lot on the Tag forum. You should meet up with him for a drink some time and share complaints. In fact, I just seen his picture on the new Tag forum and he looks just like I imagined he would.

    Regards,

    Steve
     
  6. Tantalus

    Tantalus
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    *laugh* well I will have to change my picture then - go to www.mingers.com - there's a lot to choose from - I picked one that would get some sympathy - I will go for the guy from pinxtuxedo now. [Check out the Gallery 4]

    Yes I did moan on the TAG forum a lot but with the new procedures that's not going to be the case. I had some emails with the dear Dr and we discussed some aspects of the forum and I am being very positive there.

    This post was made before it came back up.

    There was no need to be unpleasant to me. I could actually have looked like that you know!
     
  7. sijones

    sijones
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    Mark,

    I knew it was you. ;)

    I too have the two different silver finishes. In fact I am just about to buy a new DVD32R to replace my existing one (which has the old finish) so that all my TAG components match.

    Regards,

    Steve

    PS Why have you been posting your pictures on www.mingers.com?!!!? :rotfl:
     
  8. Tantalus

    Tantalus
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    I know its not about looks but some of my friends have chuckled / mocked that in spending so much money - they look different. I mean, my DVD32FLR/100x5R is almost a dull grey/blue colour. The finish is coarse. The AV32R meanwhile is a smoother finish (not the glossy one) - its like the half way version.

    My best option therefore will be to have the fascia changed on my AV32R when I do the DP upgrade. Not sure how much they are going to charge for that, but at least I'll also have the "Dual Sharc" imprint!

    Still saying all that, comparing the build / finish of the DVD32 compared to something like the Philips 890 recorder really is amusing. But at least with plastic the colours match!
     
  9. caleb

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    Whilst not strictly on this subgect, I posted this morning some comments on changing the faceplate colour of an AV192 that I was going to buy (silver to Black) and was somewhat staggered at the cost of this being 650 quid.

    Good old Dr Zucker justified this by saying that the have to change the buttons and volume control knob as well - blimey - big deal!!

    I agree that when you pay this much for any kind of kit you expect to get a bit of consistency and not feel that you are getting ripped off just because they have you by the B***s.

    No wonder that TAG went under if this is their attitude.

    Caleb
     
  10. Tantalus

    Tantalus
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    Well perhaps when IAG ship this all out to the Far East, it will be cheaper to get them all changed to some nice plastic fascias for a few Yen :zonked:

    Until then I can understand the work involved in changing out fascias.

    What I would be more worried about however, is if, I suspect, IAG have run out of Phono plugs, they may run out of spare fascia plates!
     
  11. Dr Udo Zucker

    Dr Udo Zucker
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    Hi all, I think there will be no need to be personal - my contributions are solely intended to be helpful. They are neither defensive nor (deliberately) partial - I am not longer involved with TAG McLaren Audio.

    I like to remind, for the sake of correctness only, that TAG McLaren Audio didn't "go under", as stated. It was sold by its old owners who wanted to focus on automotive business only. What happened/happens after the sale is solely down to the new owners.

    Now to the different silver paint finishes: There have in deed been two different silver ones: originally a glossy one, followed by a matter one. The first was replaced because the company, painting the parts, couldn't achieve consistently quality. TMA had high rejects and the painter consistently increased prices to cover its low yield, until it became unsustainable.



    The new finish isn't that different (please read on!), if the parts are small, say a front fascia of the AV32R. However, it make a more distinct difference, in my opinion, when it comes to the DVD32R, which has large, flat areas. I believe the original DVD32R, the shiny one, looked classier (better?) - but what does this statement help, when a product is already sold too cheaply and is consistenly reducing margins? Nevertheless, despite the change in finish, as far as I know, all DVD32R ever made, have been sold. Additional manufacturing (of the identical electronics) is impossible as the MPEG decoder, the Pantera 1, isn't longer available.



    P.S.1: I don't believe, I ever compared the shiny and the matt finish as "manufacturing tolerances". They are too different. However, a manufacturing tolerance exists between different batches of the “same” paint, e.g. it would be impossible to build a DVD32R, which consists of several, independently sprayed parts, if they were painted in different batches (even if they all used the same matt or shiny finish).



    P.S.2: The difference between both paints is the amount of particles added to the paint emulsion. The more parts added, the rougher=matter the finish -> the easier it is too paint -> the higher the finish.



    P.S.3: I doubt we will ever see again such complex high-end audio product as the DVD32R at a price it was offered. It was simply sold too cheap. Mea culpa…
     
  12. mlinhares

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    I have several Tag silver products bought trough several years (the new one a DVD32R arrived only 5 days ago) and don't see many differences.

    Dr. Zucker, wasn't the Pantera 2 pin compatible with Pantera 1?

    Just out of curiosity my new DVD32R had in the box a description of DVD32S SI. I asked Phil about the S and he told me that it meant it is fitted with the sanyo mechanism.
     
  13. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Remember what I said all those years ago, "other colours will come and go but black will always look classy" Of course you could all remember Henry Ford's words..........

    The black anodising also far outlasts paint on all the silver units I've seen.... And everyone will remember what I said about the new AV192R when it was announced (yuck too big, ugly, silver), then Udo produced a picture of the black unit, I almost swayed immediately but ended up having a DP and an AV192, there is something about the DP that still says "class" (only in black mind you).
     
  14. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Don't start Udo off on the mediamatics issue....... The Sanyo mech is a good unit with great compatibility with recordable DVD disks...... It also travels rather better :D
     
  15. caleb

    caleb
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    When I went to the shop to get the AV192, the shop assistant said that in the U.K. silver was the best seller between siver and black - can anyone confirm this?

    I agree with Graham (and Henry Ford) black to me is the classier and being anodised should wear better.

    Caleb
     
  16. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    I doubt it...... Of course having had a huge quanity of panels sprayed silver might influence things...... Cars don't look good in silver either.....(certain Merc's excluded and only for nostalgic reasons). Paint finish is however far easier to do which is why many manufacturers use it (black excluded!), a small dent in a panel that was due to be anodised can't be repaired without machining off the dent, with paint you just fill the dent...... ;) I rest my case.....
     
  17. Dr Udo Zucker

    Dr Udo Zucker
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    Hi, Pantera 1 and Pantera 2 aren't pin compatible (how could they, considering that Pantera 2 offers digital video output :lesson: ), but more essentially there SDKs are entirely different, in actual fact they were developped by another activity within Mediamatics. Having said all this, Pantera wouldn't be a viable route anyway, as Mediamatics redirected their efforts away from consumer DVD players' MPEG devices.

    I am not (linger) entirely sure on the stock codes, but I believe SI stands for "Silver".
     
  18. mlinhares

    mlinhares
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    Yes, I also believe that SI stands for silver it was the other S, ie, DVD32S and not DVD32R that intrigued me. So I asked the question just out of curiosity and got the answer that the S standed for the Sanyo mechanism. I thought that besides the Aphrodite Philips mechanisms were used.
     
  19. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Philips mechs were not used on the DVD32R as far as I can recall, just the original "unspellable" japanese mech and the then the Sanyo. I am sure they tried plenty of others though in devlopment. Finding a supplier willing to sell at the right price to a low volume manufacturer almost takes preference over the quality of the mech, life for low volume manufacturers is hard....
     
  20. Barry.NI

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    Caleb,

    I changed the faceplate of my AV192R for £350 about 18 months ago, with TMA, might be worth haggling, if the price of the used unit is right. When you say, fully loaded, does it have a scaler? If so it is a real bargain.

    I had a scratch on an older AV32R, the shiny one, it is a current Mercedes spray paint, and it matched in perfectly.
     
  21. asha_bristol

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    I have two black components and they don't match either. They are both different shades of black, and one seems to have a smooth finish whilst the other seems to have quite a rough finish. Perhaps it's to do with how long Tag stuff has been sitting idle in their warehouse?
     
  22. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Black nits have alwys had the anodised finish so they all look the same, the only unit that has black paint as well as anodised components is the DVD32R. This is due to the materials used in its construction, they also are all the same.
    Which units do you have and which are different?
     
  23. asha_bristol

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    Ok, perhaps on a closer look the units maybe the same shade of black, but there is a difference to tone and finish of casework. My units are 60IRV and CD20R. The 60IRV is a lot older than my (almost) brand new CD20R so perhaps it's just down to the colour fading as opposed to any inconsistency in production?

    Having said that there is a marked difference to the rest of the casework (i.e. top / side cover). On the CD20R it is quite rough to the touch (similar to my old Audiolab 8000LX), but the 60IRV has a very smooth finish to it's casework.
     
  24. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Sides and top covers I can understand but all TAG developed units have the same finsihed front panel I believe... However you are talking about previous AudioLab desogned products which I suppose could be subtly different....
     
  25. roversd1

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    I thought I'd fallen through some sort of worm hole and gone back in time after reading this. :rotfl:

    The Audiolab stuff had an anodised black finish on a 'grained' aluminium fascia (Audiolab used to be painted too!). The black TMA equipment had a 'matt' aluminum black anodised finish.

    I like the silver finish as the black TMA finish was too close to Mark Levinson. Iknow I'm in the minority, but the silver painted finish was in a class of its own.

    Painted finishes are a living, breathing entity as the chemicals in the paint slowly react with the envronment, the finish changes with age.

    Anodising tends to fade into different shades of the original colour depending on the pigments used in the original process. Many older 'black' units usually end up slightly brown.

    Products stored in their original packaging are unlikely to change at all as there would be little or zero UV affecting the finish.
     
  26. lenny

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    Glad to share the same opinion about the silver finishing...

    Lenny
     
  27. AMCross

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    Same here silver is the new black
     
  28. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Modernists......
    I hear "council magnoila" is also making a comeback........

    Oh and a properly done anodised finish will last a lifetime..... Proper engineering doesn't need paint to cover up all those minor inperfections :devil:
     
  29. liam_b

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    I have always thought that the silver looked FAR better in photographs than in real life, having had products finished in both I wouldn't entertain any TAG in silver unless it was significantly cheaper :devil:
     
  30. Miron

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    I guess that's why you had all of them in black :D
     

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