1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tag McLaren Audio have closed their forums

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by CounterWhine, Oct 8, 2003.

  1. CounterWhine

    CounterWhine
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,480
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Oxford
    Ratings:
    +155
    TMA have frozen all current threads and disabled the create new post buttons.

    TMA have often (and increasingly) been criticised for censoring their forums. It was seen as a place to praise TMA but criticism was viewed in a very poor light.

    Perhaps they just got sick of locking/deleting threads. Perhaps they just decided to take their ball home. Perhaps they've ceased trading.

    Whatever the reason, it's just another example of TMA's lousy PR.

    D.
     
  2. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    its just more of the same i guess!
     
  3. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Messages:
    3,096
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Ratings:
    +69
    Probably some kind of damage limitation decision, as a daily visitor the forums had certainly become something of a hotbed of opinions, in the last couple of days there have been one or two "anonymous" posters who have been plain rude.
    Not the sort of thing one wants to see anywhere really.


    Regards

    Steven
     
  4. Miron

    Miron
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,408
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    Ratings:
    +49
    I hope they will make smart decission how to proceed with their forum. It would be a shame to call it off.

    Unfortunately, as you said, recently some things moved into wrong direction, (nomatter what the trigger was). Some forum participants spoiled it all. TAG will probably have to judge now if the forum brings or takes more for the company itself.

    Apart from that Internet is a great thing but it is unfortunately too exposed to sick heads. Just see how many computer viruses are around, well over 90% of all mails is spam and i fyou're not careful you're hacked in a minute. But that's how this world is!
     
  5. Peter

    Peter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    If I were Udo I'd have closed it before now. The forum is obviously taking up a great deal of his time and energy, and the way it's gone there lately he could better spend his energy elsewhere. I truly can't see what benefit TAG get from that forum any more, and I visit it less and less due to the moronic 'contributors'.

    Hey, I see Antonio defected to Krell! :confused:
     
  6. rob@rar.org.uk

    rob@rar.org.uk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    343
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Hampton, Southwest London
    Ratings:
    +0
    I will be sad to see the Tag forum closed (if that's what they've decided), but not surprised. It used to be a good place for well-informed technical discussions, as well as to provide Tag with feedback and for them to occasionally explain their thinking. Recently however, it has become a place for a small number of people to bad-mouth the company and the CEO, and for a slightly larger number to vent their frustrations as if Tag had somehow been disloyal to a family friend.

    Regards

    Rob
     
  7. NeilS

    NeilS
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2001
    Messages:
    170
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Essex
    Ratings:
    +5
    Unfortunately I know of no forums which are unmoderated, there's always someone with too much time on their hands and too little to do who spoil it for the rest. Period.

    It's like a game to them, see what they can get away with then push some more, just like a misbehaving child only anonymously.

    Sorry but these sort of people make me sick, free speach is one thing but they should have some respect.

    Neil
    :mad:
     
  8. Margaux

    Margaux
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Peter,Miron...good to see you here.

    I believe DavidR is wrong.

    TAG is only changing their forum to work as all other forums. Meaning members with real addresses and idcheck.

    I really hope that the TAG forum will find its way back to its form. I have learned very much there.

    DavidR, you seems to be very disappointed with TAG. You have all right to be that whatever the reasons are. We are however quite many that still think that TAGs equipment gives the best value for the money.

    In end its only HFi and the more manufacturers out here the more to choose from for us customers. Thats the important thing.

    /Joachim
     
  9. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    No you stupid idiot, Tag are the best. You don't know what you're talking about. All other brands are cheap tat.
     
  10. Margaux

    Margaux
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    "
    No you stupid idiot, Tag are the best. You don't know what you're talking about. All other brands are cheap tat.
    "

    I don't agree Udo!!!
     
  11. rob@rar.org.uk

    rob@rar.org.uk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    343
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Hampton, Southwest London
    Ratings:
    +0
    Nathan, I think you're being a bit harsh on Zucker. Yes he robustly defends his products (occasionally making comparisions to other manufacturers kit), and yes I agree he can sometimes appear to be blunt in his internet communication, but in my experience he has not sunk as low as you portray him.

    Regards

    Rob
     
  12. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I do like Tag/Audiolab gear (own a DAC, integrated amp and poweramps) but I feel the price hike of the standard Audiolab gear was just a money making exercise. They should have left the new Tag (equilvant to the Audiolab) gear the same price, and only on the new AV gear/DVD player and new models increased to what they currently are priced at.
     
  13. Margaux

    Margaux
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    No one can say that TAG is making to much money on their business considering their financial performance until today.

    The market will sort it out automatically - If someone offers a processor or poweramp with better specs to a lower price I'm sure all in the industry will follow (or pull out).

    I do however still feel that TAG is not more expensive than its competitors (with some strengths and some weaknesses). That doesn't make their gear cheap though. TAGs stuff is very expensive and almost to expensive for me. But that is the same for Lexicon, Meridian, Krell, ML, Bryston etc..

    Many manufacurers sadly rise their prices now: E.g is the B&W Nautilus serie up 50% in Sweden the last years. Worst is their top of the line speaker that now costs now 50 000 Euro compared to 30 000 Euro two years ago.
     
  14. rob@rar.org.uk

    rob@rar.org.uk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    343
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Hampton, Southwest London
    Ratings:
    +0
    I emailed Tag to ask about their forum and they said that it is down temporarily, and will return in a better format. I'm pleased about this as although the content was generally useful the forum software felt very flakey, especially on my Mac.

    Regards

    Rob
     
  15. Tantalus

    Tantalus
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    289
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Ratings:
    +3
    Well as a main "moronic" contributer over the last few months (author of such fascinating threads as "TAG DVD32 or Meridian G98" and "MPEG-2 Price Increase") - owner of DVD32FLR, AV32R bp-192, 100x5R and Dynaudio Audience, I have been getting a little irritated by Udo's attitude.

    He spends WAY too much time on that forum (and so do I - but I am sure he has better things to do). Some of his reponses border on arrogance. He once changed the subject of one of my threads asking why I couldn't download v3.8 of software (there was a link error on their site) - he renamed to something like "Why can't I work my computer". Ok so he's under a lot of pressure - has anyone else noticed that he does not sign off as "CEO Tag McLaren Audio" anymore?

    I have been questioning some of their price increases and do wonder if I have made the right decision at times. A small and niggling annoyance is the difference in paintwork between each of my products - considering they were built within 6 months of each other. Now apparently, fascia changes have gone up by 300%...

    I love their gear but doubt that I can afford to improve upon it to DP and PSM. It seems to go up in price every 6 months.

    Their upgrade policies are, IMHO, flawed - seriously flawed. Prices for modular amp upgrades (adding new modules in) are ludicrously expensive. Cheaper to throw it away and start over (e.g. 100x5R to 250x3R). Audiolab take-over was a disaster - at the launch: Press "Are you enjoying the show?" Response: "I don't come here to enjoy ze show, I come here to ween!".

    It feels like a breath of fresh air making these comments on this forum, without fear of Dr Z changing my subjects, and locking threads.

    He opens his forum up to anonymity. At the MINIMUM they should do what this forum does - i.e. gets confirmation.

    In all this however, it is the sycophantic attitude of many of the forums contributors and Udo's inability to respond without a base level of arrogance.

    I will still likely upgrade their products - the design, features and above all, sound quality are prob the best around.

    But they are doing themselves a lot more damage long-term in PR terms by allowing Udo to run the forum the way he does. If they can't take criticism then they should not run a forum. What do they expect?

    It's a great resource for past issues. I would suggest to them that they split it up into topics - split by product also. DVD32, Cables, Processors and most importantly "Complaints". Dealing with grudges in a main forum the way they do is not doing anyone any favours - especially the folks who want some advice about something. In Udo's eyes. there should be no complaints on the forum, just praise with any serious moans diverted to the helpdesk.

    Long live Tag McLaren Audio!!

    PS Does anyone have any TAG Digital or SVideo Cables for Sale?
     
  16. rob@rar.org.uk

    rob@rar.org.uk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    343
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Hampton, Southwest London
    Ratings:
    +0
    If you are convinced that their products offer poor value for money, why do you state that you are still likely to upgrade with Tag? It's all open standard stuff, so you could gradually change your kit to another manufacturer (which offered better VFM) as and when you felt the need to upgrade. I can't understand how you can be so vociferous in your complaints, yet stick with the same company!

    Regards

    Rob
     
  17. Tantalus

    Tantalus
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    289
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Ratings:
    +3
    I don't think that they offer poor value for money - I purchased mine at a very reasonable price. I would still buy a Porsche, even if I hated the guy who made them. TAG is quality kit. I have never doubted that.

    BUT... their price increases of late have been worrying - and I challenged TAG to defend them. That's all.

    A 300% price increase for a licence - a similar amount - at least 200% for a fascia change.

    But there is a flip-side. The DP upgrade seems like a fantastic bargain. I need to buy a Plasma first however, but worry if this is going to be double by the time I get around to it. Price increases at the high end of the market are to be expected (in my line of work conversely - IT consultancy -we have to drop our rates these days). People DO question the value of the PSM upgrade however.

    I am as vociferous as Udo is arrogant.
     
  18. rob@rar.org.uk

    rob@rar.org.uk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    343
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Hampton, Southwest London
    Ratings:
    +0
    The best way, in fact the only way, that Tag can respond to a challenge about their pricing structure is whether people buy the kit or not. By stating that you are likely to continue to buy Tag gear you are responding to the challenge, and proving that Tag are correct in their assessment that the market will bear this price increase.

    It's a simple equation - if you think that Tag products are not too expensive buy them, if you think that Tag products are too expensive buy something else. All the noise and whinging is just an unnecessary sideshow in my opinion.

    Regards

    Rob
     
  19. Tantalus

    Tantalus
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    289
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Ratings:
    +3
    The trend in their price increases are what is worrying me - as I have said till I am blue in the face.

    If you view my opinion as noise and whinging, then don't read it, just as if I don't have to buy TAG if I can't afford it.
     
  20. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
    AVF Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,793
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,151
    Customer feedback (irate, vociforous or otherwise) is absolutely vital to a company's wellbeing and prosperity. If you send an e.mail to MS, rude or otherwise, I will do my damndest to try and see if you have a point and whether we can do something for you- as do most other companies. Zucker's attitude runs contrary to the principle of valuing the customer- especially as Tantalus' gear isn't exactly bargain basement.
    Little things like this add up to why TMA finds itself in the position it does
    Ed
     
  21. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,293
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    Intersting thread this, just a couple of questions for new mwmbwers here who are Tag forum regulars:
    What does the Tag Forum offer that AVforums dont?
    Dr Zucker seems to have missed thepoint of the froum idea but was his contribution useful or just annoying?
    Many Manufacturers and dealers veiw these forums while not regularly posting they certainly have a good nose around anyone want to invite Dr Zucker to join us!!!!
    Tag took a step forward with the forum (I beleive) You dont see SONY with a forum on their site do you!!!!
    Why not all move here from the Tag Forum and ask Spectre for a dedicated Tag Discussion area I'm sure you would get just as much useful info and possibly less stupid posting!
     
  22. Margaux

    Margaux
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I know of no other company that has been so open to its customers. Would MS puplish all complaints on their site?



    TAGs forum is down. We are a couple of confused souls:blush:

    The reason why we are regulars on the Tag Forum is because we have TAG equipment. During my years there we actually have had quite an big impact on TAGs products. My self for example have been asking for ROOMEQ since year 2000.

    I can make the list very long of how we customers actually have improved the products.

    But I shall confess that at least I have followed the threads regarding TAG here with great interest.
     
  23. Tantalus

    Tantalus
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    289
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Ratings:
    +3
    Questions for TAG owners here.

    What do you make of their interconnect leads?

    Particularly the F3-DIG and F3-VID (S Video)

    They are pricey - but 2nd hand seem to be a better bargain...
     
  24. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
    AVF Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,793
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,151
    On the customer reviews section of our web, we have some rude, bad (and some bizarre) reviews of our product that we simply leave be. If somone wants to say that then that's their business. I will concede that most of our traffic is simply e.mail to the company itself but no matter how unpleasant the subject matter, there is almost always something to be learnt form it.
    We're not technical enough to run our own forum :(
     
  25. CounterWhine

    CounterWhine
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,480
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Oxford
    Ratings:
    +155
    The only statements I made were that "TMA have frozen all current threads and disabled the create new post buttons", "TMA have often (and increasingly) been criticised for censoring their forums. It was seen as a place to praise TMA but criticism was viewed in a very poor light.", and "it's just another example of TMA's lousy PR."

    Where am I wrong?

    D.
     
  26. MattB

    MattB
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2001
    Messages:
    189
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Essex,UK
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hi Mark:)
    It will be interesting to see if any of our recent contributions make it into the archive of the new forum. Time for some backups!

    Re the cables, I got a set of F3-ANA and F3-DIG thrown in with my last purchase (I know, I will burn in hell for getting 100% discount). For the S-Video, CPC sell VanDamme leads which are good value. Also available direct from VDC direct
     
  27. Miron

    Miron
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,408
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    Ratings:
    +49
    Matt,
    I am doing backups of "usefull" threads all day long , but there were so many "educational" postings there in the past that it seems to me like I'll never finnish it :)
     
  28. Margaux

    Margaux
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    DavidR

    "TMA have frozen all current threads and disabled the create new post buttons."

    You are absolutely right here

    "TMA have often (and increasingly) been criticised for censoring their forums. It was seen as a place to praise TMA but criticism was viewed in a very poor light."

    To my knowledge has TAG never removed a thread only because its negative. Just look at the last threads in the TAG froum. The threads that have been removed have been destoyed by rubbish or personal attacks. Threads like these have often been removed after requests from forum members. I believe you only told half the story here.

    Why don't you try to attack the moderator in this forum, call him a fool and tell him that he does not deserve his job and see what happens?

    "Perhaps they just got sick of locking/deleting threads. Perhaps they just decided to take their ball home. Perhaps they've ceased trading"

    I believe you are right and wrong here as TAG is only changing the form of the forum to be the same as all other forums. You are probably right that they got sick of the personal attacks. Its sad that some people only wan't to destoy for others. But who knows, perhaps a new forum with smileys would lead to less missunderstandings

    "Whatever the reason, it's just another example of TMA's lousy PR"

    Given the recent development on the TAG forum it would be lousy PR to continue as just everything was normal. Hence I believe you are wrong here.


    I can understand that individuals who want to buy TAG equipment are angry of the changes in prices. Its easy for me to say that it is still good value for the money. I already have everything I want.

    In my opinion is it very important feed back many people give TAG when they are saying that the new prices will stop them from bying TAG. I doubt that I would buy the DVD32R myself for the price it will have in november. But I wouldn't buy the Linn CD12 either for the same reasons. But I would not start to attack e.g. Linn for their pricing and destroy their forum (if they had any) for all others that loved it. I would just buy something else instead. Why not a Meridian?.:)
     
  29. CounterWhine

    CounterWhine
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,480
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Oxford
    Ratings:
    +155
    These are not statements, they are conjecture. I fail to see how conjecture can be wrong.

    What I said about lousy PR contains some opinion but I still stand by every statement in my original post.

    D.
     
  30. lowrider

    lowrider
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2003
    Messages:
    676
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    Ratings:
    +1
    Peter,

    I only had the AV32R, jewel of TAG´s crown, INHO, and I was happy with it, particularly the DP and the "family" forum...

    But you have to admit things changed drastically, and TAG is only as good as many other products, each with its strengths and weaknesses... :rolleyes:

    This is only an hobby, and I am not ready to take abuse over it, at least not too much... ;)
     

Share This Page

Loading...