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Tag DVD32R

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by martintyler, Feb 6, 2003.

  1. martintyler

    martintyler
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    I have had a Tag DVD32R at home since sunday (on loan) and have been trying to compare it to my Arcam DV88.

    The main thing I have been trying to compare is CD playback. At first I just listened to various CDs that are well produced, occasionally swapping the two players around. I could not really tell any difference, now and then you think 'this sounds much clearer' then you swap back and realise you imagined it.

    One evening a had a friend come round and we did some testing, a bit more organised, even doing some ABX tests on each other.. we could still not hear any difference.

    Now, I am not claiming fans of the Tag are lying about its superior sound quality, in fact i believe it does sound better to some people (also believe that some are lying or imagining, but you always get that)

    So what gives.. maybe the music i was playing doesnt show the differences? (I have borrowed some Jazz and Classical CDs to try out tonight). The music i tried is all very well produced and sounds amazing.. Front 242, No Doubt, Dido, Massive Attack, the Tag Test Tracks CD. Maybe my hearing isnt trained enough on good quality gear? Maybe the rest of my equipment isnt up to showing the difference? (see equipment list at the bottom)

    I have to say it is a class piece of equipment though, the build, the operation, the software, the service, the looks.. but to me, if it doesnt sound better, its not worth 5k.

    Martin

    Other Equipment: Tag AV32R, M&K 2510P x3, M&K 1525 x2, Velo HGS15, Arcam P85 (rears)
     
  2. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    I've wondered about the Tag's price tag (no pun intended!)

    I guess a £1000 DVD and a £1000 CD player will have better performance than the DVD32R, be cheaper, plus each unit would be used less (ie, you won't be using the DVD player to play CD's, therefore less wear and tear)

    Nathan
     
  3. alpha10

    alpha10
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    I'm having difficulty posting today.......

    Anyway try again, are you conecting to the TAG AV32R analogue or digital, because if it's digital then I would be very surprised if you hear any differences (whatever people say, and I'm ready to be flamed on that....)

    If it's analogue I would have expected at the very least a tonal difference between them?

    Perhaps the answer is that the source in your case is not the dominant component?

    Cheers
     
  4. martintyler

    martintyler
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    (not sure whats happening with the forum, got about 8 emails saying i have replies here, but there's only two)

    Anyway.. the DVD32R is a transport only, so it's connected using a digital cable, and also with sync link enabled (before anyone asks)

    Nathan, your point about a 1k CD player is not necessarily right... if i cannot hear the difference between my arcam and the tag, why would i hear a difference in a 1k CD player? Just coz everyone says the arcam is equivalent to a 600 quid CDP? Most people also say the Tag is far superior.. i dont think you can make any calls without listening to things directly, and price isnt always proportional to performance.

    Martin
     
  5. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    I haven't heard/seen the Tag DVD going, so personally I can't comment.

    However, people have commented that it is only marginally better (for DVD playback) than a £700 DVD player, and it's not worth the extra £3800.

    Nathan
     
  6. alpha10

    alpha10
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    Martin,

    Having tried many different players as 'transport' only, I have yet to hear a difference between players once you get above a couple of hundred quid, by the time you get to as good a player as the Arcam then you are talking about very very small differences, especially as I believe the Tag does it's own re-clocking.........

    Cheers
     
  7. martintyler

    martintyler
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    Surely the reclocking (sync link) is something that is meant to make a difference? Something that can combat some people's theory that all digital output is the same.. so why do you say 'especially ....' ?
     
  8. alpha10

    alpha10
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    I said 'especially' for just that reason it should mean that most reasonable transports WOULD sound the same through the Tag's DACs, which is born out in what you are saying that you don't hear a difference..

    So unless the picture is much much better then save your money or spend it on software...

    Cheers
     
  9. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    I've heard jitter only effects PCM (ie CD's), it does not effect the DD/DTS bitstream.

    I personally feel that some items now from Tag are more for the posers. I can afford decent quality items, ie, £2000 each- but they're going down the Bose route- charging alot, marketing etc. Obviously they are higher quality than Bose, but it's a similar pattern.

    Nathan
     
  10. martintyler

    martintyler
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    Hopefully someone will correct me if i am wrong here, but i thought the DACs in the processor (AV32R) sync-ed with the clock in the dvd32r.. so that should give it an advantage. Whereas with all other players the AV32R is relying on the quality of the timing coming off the spdif.

    There's a thread on the Tag forum that i started (same topic as this) and it has come done to Dr Zucker (Tag CEO) suggesting room resonances could account for this.. of course they have just released their AV192R which has some equilization built in (and soon to be available as an upgrade to the AV32R).
     
  11. alpha10

    alpha10
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    What you are saying is true I believe, BUT I also thought that the AV32R used a reclocking circuit anyway which although theoretically not as good as a true sync should negate the differences.

    You also have to believe that there would be significant jitter anyway from the Arcam (or any other resonable transport) over a short lead, with or without reclocking?

    At the end of the day if YOU can't hear any difference and it is sound quality you are looking for then you have answered your own question. If you need to go and borrow CDs that you wouldn't normally listen to to highlight tiny differences, what are you achieving?
     
  12. martintyler

    martintyler
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    Yes I agree. I am not going to spend money on this player now, that part of the exercise is over. What i am trying to achieve now is just understanding more about it.. whether other people can honestly hear a difference and what that is down to.. different music, different rooms/equipment/setup or just different ears :)
     
  13. alpha10

    alpha10
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    I think you hit the nail on the head with the word 'honestly' you will probably find that the people who have bought the players will say that they could hear a difference and that it is down to the rest of your equipment that you can't. That is all fine, everyone has their own opinions.

    Good luck with your quest.
     
  14. AV Geeza

    AV Geeza
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    I demo'd the the Tag DVD32FL against the the Arcam DV27 but they were linked to the Arcam AV8.

    My opinion is that the TAG did sound better, greater levels of detail and slighltly more open than the Arcam.
    I did think that the difference was clear but it wasn't like night and day. Its clearly not twice as good as the Arcam but as we all know, the law of diminishing returns sets in after around £1k.

    I would hope that the difference would be greater if the TAG AV32R was used in place of the Arcam AV8 but cant speak from experience.

    I think where the TAG comes into it's own is in the picture quality when using a projector and large screen.

    I have heard it said that the DVD32R compares to a £2-3k cd player, well not in my opinion!
    My £2.5k Krell sounds better, no question!!! :D

    Geeza :smashin:
     
  15. martintyler

    martintyler
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    Giving back the DVD32R tomorrow, a bit disappointed with it really.

    Although I didnt really test the video performance, i have watched a couple of films on the Tag, and cant say i noticed a difference there either (with prog scan into my fujitsu 4229)

    So do you think no dvd/cd player is likely to be better in my environment/music/hearing? What am i going to spend my money on now? :(
     
  16. alpha10

    alpha10
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    The obvious answer is just treat yourself to some more films and music, just sit back and enjoy what you have.......

    Upgrade'itis is a very destructive thing!
     

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